Wasting Taxpayer's Money

andrewlwood

Always Tyred wrote:

Yes, but my gran was able to tell me to sit up straight and keep my shoulders back, and she didn't demand a salary of £25k to do so. Actually, the difficulty was persuading her that I no longer wished to receive her ergonomic advice.

Could she tell you that the top of your monitor should be at eye level and your wrists off the desk, so as to avoid RSI? Mine wouldn't know what a monitor was, bless 'er.
Anyone charging you £25k or telling you that you need a dedicated H&S monitor is having a laugh. In our office of 500 people it's a tiny part of two of the admin's job (admittedly, neither of them are particularly happy when you call them 'Chair monitor').

always_tyred

andrewlwood wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

Yes, but my gran was able to tell me to sit up straight and keep my shoulders back, and she didn't demand a salary of £25k to do so. Actually, the difficulty was persuading her that I no longer wished to receive her ergonomic advice.

Could she tell you that the top of your monitor should be at eye level and your wrists off the desk, so as to avoid RSI? Mine wouldn't know what a monitor was, bless 'er.
Anyone charging you £25k or telling you that you need a dedicated H&S monitor is having a laugh. In our office of 500 people it's a tiny part of two of the admin's job (admittedly, neither of them are particularly happy when you call them 'Chair monitor').

No, but I could probably digest the information in about a femtosecond and decide for myself whether or not my monitor was, in fact, at eye level or if I wanted to put it there or if, all along, its makes no frigging difference to my health, safety or zen.

spen666

Always Tyred wrote:

andrewlwood wrote:

On the subject of sitting training - I really benefitted from mine, and the whole 'H&S gone mad' argument doesn't wash. So many people sit badly on their chairs, storing up back, neck, shoulder and wrist problems for later life. While searching for advice on buying a new bike in the last couple of months, just about everyone has said 'get professional fitting advice' for the bike - why not for desk chairs as well? Not many of us spend as much time on the bike as we do in our office chairs.

Yes, but my gran was able to tell me to sit up straight and keep my shoulders back, and she didn't demand a salary of £25k to do so. Actually, the difficulty was persuading her that I no longer wished to receive her ergonomic advice.

now, if you had employed her on £25k pa then you could have solved this problem by making her redundant

always_tyred

spen666 wrote:

now, if you had employed her on £25k pa then you could have solved this problem by making her redundant

I certaintly felt that she was largely redundant.

andrewlwood

Always Tyred wrote:

No, but I could probably digest the information in about a femtosecond

My point precisely - it's not exactly an imposition

Always Tyred wrote:

and decide for myself whether or not my monitor was, in fact, at eye level or if I wanted to put it there or if, all along, its makes no frigging difference to my health, safety or zen.

Hmm. are you qualified to say whether it's having an effect on your health long term? A trained bike technician tells you that your saddle might give your old chap grief, do you ignore it because it feels alright?

I'm discussing H&S and more crucially chairs on an internet forum. Must get a grip...

spen666

andrewlwood wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

No, but I could probably digest the information in about a femtosecond

My point precisely - it's not exactly an imposition

Always Tyred wrote:

and decide for myself whether or not my monitor was, in fact, at eye level or if I wanted to put it there or if, all along, its makes no frigging difference to my health, safety or zen.

Hmm. are you qualified to say whether it's having an effect on your health long term? A trained bike technician tells you that your saddle might give your old chap grief, do you ignore it because it feels alright?

I'm discussing H&S and more crucially chairs on an internet forum. Must get a grip...

Are you wearing protective clothing whilst gripping. Ensure you do not grip too tightly now as it may cause injury

Eau Rouge

It occurs to me, this stuff isn't wasting government money as such. It's actually an innvative means of distributing government subsidies.

always_tyred

andrewlwood wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

No, but I could probably digest the information in about a femtosecond

My point precisely - it's not exactly an imposition

Always Tyred wrote:

and decide for myself whether or not my monitor was, in fact, at eye level or if I wanted to put it there or if, all along, its makes no frigging difference to my health, safety or zen.

Hmm. are you qualified to say whether it's having an effect on your health long term? A trained bike technician tells you that your saddle might give your old chap grief, do you ignore it because it feels alright?

I'm discussing H&S and more crucially chairs on an internet forum. Must get a grip...

There is a severe risk of taking things too seriously.

The Chingford Skinhead

+1 top post. All of this PC / H&S gone mad is complete tosh. It's the poor interpretation of PC or H&S advice that has gone mad - and its gone mad due to our american style litigation culture where some sleazebag lawyer will push organisations to court over the slightest issue. Org pays out - fears similar cases and becomes risk averse.

In the case of the lightbulb it probably is the case that there was a very tightly specified contract (drawn up by lawyers spen - and then agreed by the lawyers at your org) which says you can't do anything that represents "maintenance". Nothing to do with H&S - everything to do with commercial interest.

That said, I think they were right in your case :shock: yep, I've read your post, you want to screw in a bayonet fitment. Bayonet bulbs need to be pushed up and a quarter turn. If you try and screw it you'll damage the fitment and possibly injure yourself

Mr Sworld

Always Tyred wrote:

Oh, I see your mistake. No, risk is binary. There is either risk, or no risk. Its not possible to evaluate risk at all. If you try, you risk that the estimated risk is wrong, and that risk is also binary. There is no way out.

Sorry mate but that's not true. Risk Assessments are the standard way of evaluating risk and they use the level of risk and the outcome if that risk occurred.

Everything is a risk, that is true. Getting out of bed is a risk, you could fall on the floor! However there is such a low chance of that happening and the result of that risk is maybe a bumped nose that in a risk assessment there is virtually no risk.

Someone changing the light bulb in this example would probably use a chair instead of a ladder which bumps the risk up quite a bit! And if the lampholder is damaged then there is a possibility of an electric shock. In a risk assessment this would give a high risk level.

A proper sparkie would use ladders and know what to look for before changing the lamp. Also it may not be the lamp after all, there could be a fault on the switch or in the wiring. They would know how to check for that.

Mike

tjwood

So what public sector job does the OP do that clearly is NOT an inefficient use of my taxes? :roll:

spen666

tjwood wrote:

So what public sector job does the OP do that clearly is NOT an inefficient use of my taxes? :roll:

I fully admit that the taxpayer does not get full value for money from the way I am required to perform my job.

The job could provide value for money IF it was done in a different way, but the powers that be prevent efficiency

always_tyred

Mr Sworld wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

Oh, I see your mistake. No, risk is binary. There is either risk, or no risk. Its not possible to evaluate risk at all. If you try, you risk that the estimated risk is wrong, and that risk is also binary. There is no way out.

Sorry mate but that's not true. Risk Assessments are the standard way of evaluating risk and they use the level of risk and the outcome if that risk occurred.

Everything is a risk, that is true. Getting out of bed is a risk, you could fall on the floor! However there is such a low chance of that happening and the result of that risk is maybe a bumped nose that in a risk assessment there is virtually no risk.

Someone changing the light bulb in this example would probably use a chair instead of a ladder which bumps the risk up quite a bit! And if the lampholder is damaged then there is a possibility of an electric shock. In a risk assessment this would give a high risk level.

A proper sparkie would use ladders and know what to look for before changing the lamp. Also it may not be the lamp after all, there could be a fault on the switch or in the wiring. They would know how to check for that.

Mike

Yes, I was being ever so slightly sarcastic.

Anyway. Breakfast time. I'm going to put on my nomex racing suit to make some toast.

Mr Sworld

Always Tyred wrote:

Yes, I was being ever so slightly sarcastic.

Ahhhh! I see. Difficult to tell sarcasm on text based forums without the use of emoticons! :roll:

Mike

always_tyred

Mr Sworld wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

Yes, I was being ever so slightly sarcastic.

Ahhhh! I see. Difficult to tell sarcasm on text based forums without the use of emoticons! :roll:

Mike

The emotions on this site aren't any good. For example, this one is entirely useless - :arrow:
So is this one -
And where the hell is the single raised eyebrow emotion? We should write and complain.

Mr Sworld

Deleted due to being a dunce.....

Mr Sworld

As above. I should look more closely!

turnerjohn

Mr Sworld wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

Oh, I see your mistake. No, risk is binary. There is either risk, or no risk. Its not possible to evaluate risk at all. If you try, you risk that the estimated risk is wrong, and that risk is also binary. There is no way out.

Sorry mate but that's not true. Risk Assessments are the standard way of evaluating risk and they use the level of risk and the outcome if that risk occurred.

Everything is a risk, that is true. Getting out of bed is a risk, you could fall on the floor! However there is such a low chance of that happening and the result of that risk is maybe a bumped nose that in a risk assessment there is virtually no risk.

Someone changing the light bulb in this example would probably use a chair instead of a ladder which bumps the risk up quite a bit! And if the lampholder is damaged then there is a possibility of an electric shock. In a risk assessment this would give a high risk level.

A proper sparkie would use ladders and know what to look for before changing the lamp. Also it may not be the lamp after all, there could be a fault on the switch or in the wiring. They would know how to check for that.

Mike

Agree but in the same sence that mean if a lightbulb fails at your home do you call in an electrician?....i doubt it (ha not less you are a Sparky!)

Everything in life is a "risk"...hell thats what makes life interesting !
We wouldn't do anything if there wasn't some eliment of danger involved....human kind would never have evolved out their caves !!!!

Thing is H&S has got far to carried away.....yes we need it (partly to keep the total numptys in order!) but not to the scope that its evolved to (thanks America!)....oh and am sure we would all be far more productive without having to do all this H&S form-filling, training, courses and general b*ll***t ! ....ah feel better for that rant....maybe these forums are good for the soul as well ?!

Mr Sworld

turnerjohn wrote:

Agree but in the same sence that mean if a lightbulb fails at your home do you call in an electrician?....i doubt it (ha not less you are a Sparky!)

I've known some people in Housing Associations do just that and just sit there watching 'pets do the funniest things' stuffing their faces while you change a light bulb in the flea ridden pit they call a home.... :evil:

Wallace1492

This is not unique to Taxpayers. (well maybe it is, I will explain)

I work for a Large Bank, we outsourced our building maintenace a few years ago, so the in house guy was not allowed to change lightbulbs, although he still worked on the premises. We are in Glasgow, but had to phone a help desk in the south of England to report the bulbs being out, we explained exactly what was wrong and where they were, within the stipulated 24 hour response and engineer arrived, we showed him the extinct lights, he then scratched his chin and advised he had to report this as we required a Bulb Engineer, and he was not qualified to change them - they had given him the call out, but not what the problem was - within the next 24 hours, a bulb engineer arrived with an assistant, we showed him the extinct bulbs, and the ladders that were beside them. The good news was that he was qualified to change the buld, and the assistant was qualified to hold the ladders, BUT not the ladders we had, nothing wrong with them, but he would have had to do a full H&S survey on them, and he was not qualified to do that. He had to get back to his van and get his own ladders, and eventually got the bulbss changed.

The upshot - our Bank is now partially owned by the UK taxpayer!!

The Chingford Skinhead

turnerjohn wrote:

Agree but in the same sence that mean if a lightbulb fails at your home do you call in an electrician?....i doubt it (ha not less you are a Sparky!)

The difference is that if you change a bulb at home and fall / get a shock you can't pick up the phone to ambulance-chasers.com and sue anyone but yourself. If you do it at work there will be a more than willing spiv at injury-compensation-4U-massive-fees-4us.com happy to make a claim on your behlaf against your employer.