Licence Plates

White Line

Following the thread regarding some newspaper article about road taxes blah blah blah, I got thinking about licence plates.

What if this became the case? Would police just receive a wave of complaints about cyclist "all up in the middle of the road"? Or about cyclists slowing traffic down during rush hour, when cars are crawling along slower than an old guy on a bouncy BSO?

Would it cause more people to cycle on the pavements? Would it encourage better policing from the law? Imagine no more RLJ'ing. No more drafting from unknowns. No more night-time ninjas without lights.

Plus, I'm sure that we could manage to incorporate the plates into SCR somewhere. :twisted:

Thoughts?

gb155

Good question, While I and many others who take cycling seriously would think that "we" dont need them, I have also seen WAY too many BSO's being rode like idiots (by idiots) pavment hopping, RLJing etc etc

so half of me says Aye and the other half says Naw. Hope that helps

Headhuunter

Registering bikes would open a whole can of worms. Who has to be licensed? Obviously people are including regular cyclists and commuters, but how about teenagers and little kids pootling about on bikes? What about all those families who have a bike each rusting slowly in garages that get pulled out once or twice a year to cycle to the shops or along the local cycle track for a mile or so when the sun comes out? Who would fund the enormous cost of setting up registration? Would the DVLA be responsible? Given the sheer number of bicycles owned, it would most likely take a much more massive (and expensive) database and an enormous number of staff to maintain the system. Who would enforce licensing? The police barely have enough time to cope with current legislation let alone chasing after hundreds or thousands of cyclists to check their registration docs. I'm sure that what would happen is that responsible regular cyclists would shoulder the lion's share of the cost and hassle whereas kids, teens and those who barely use their bikes would just not bother registering, or simply would scrap their bikes altogether and get in the car instead.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure bike registration has been tried and has failed in a few countries including Canada and the Netherlands. In each place it was eventually found to be unworkable and extremely expensive.

At a time when the government is trying to encourage people out of cars onto bikes and to take more exercise, forcing them to pay for registration would be a big discouragement for many.

il_principe

+1

Also what about the poor sods that own multiple bikes? ITB would need at least 10 licences.

Rich158

What about the wind resistance :shock: :shock:

I work hard for my speed, there's no way I'd add a sodding great license plate to my bike and sacrifice my top speed because I've got to display a number that can be read from 60ft away.

always_tyred

Who are the three people who actually voted "Aye"?

Kieran_Burns

Always Tyred wrote:

Who are the three people who actually voted "Aye"?

pitchforks and torches on standby.....

roger_merriman

waste of time, much the same as having a licence plate on a horse or just walking, cars/motorbikes are a lot heavier. and even fairly modest speeds can thus can do impressive amounts of damage.

ie the gain isn't worth the cost.

Headhuunter

Il Principe wrote:

+1

Also what about the poor sods that own multiple bikes? ITB would need at least 10 licences.

Agreed, I've got 4 bikes. Would I have to register all of them separately?

Headhuunter

Rich158 wrote:

What about the wind resistance :shock: :shock:

I work hard for my speed, there's no way I'd add a sodding great license plate to my bike and sacrifice my top speed because I've got to display a number that can be read from 60ft away.

CRC and Wiggle would probably start to do a lovely line in carbon fibre license plates...

Rich158

Headhuunter wrote:

Rich158 wrote:

What about the wind resistance :shock: :shock:

I work hard for my speed, there's no way I'd add a sodding great license plate to my bike and sacrifice my top speed because I've got to display a number that can be read from 60ft away.

CRC and Wiggle would probably start to do a lovely line in carbon fibre license plates...

In that case I'd be tempted :oops: :oops: :oops:

Headhuunter

If they really wanted to license bikes the easiest solution might be to license the rider, so all your bikes would have the same number on them, or you'd wear a T shirt with the number or something...

R_T_A

I reckon you should do the same with pedestrians. A big number plate on their back.

That way anyone causing an offence (whether illegal or not) can be reported.

Or maybe we could put licence plates on shoes?

Kieran_Burns

Or how about we just make sure everyone has a compulsory ID Card. :evil:

MrChuck

No. As somebody else said on that other thread (much better than I did) the actual size of the "problem" (insofar as it exists outside the letters pages of provincial newspapers) just doesn't justify this sort of infrastructure and expense.

chuckcork

Why not just go for full blown police state while we're at it with RF Tags implanted under the skin so your ID can be read by automated scanners at a distance, to keep track of you at all times, who you're with or in close proximity to etc?

I figure that mounting a scanner on every 2nd or 3rd power pole, with additional poles erected around the country if no power poles are otherwise present, should knock crime on the head, be a bit hard to claim you're nowhere near a break in if records could prove via triangulation where you were.

And think of the effect on illegal immigration, just link a RF scanner to a camera, with a little bit of computer power it would make picking up illegals a piece of cake. (Tourists could be obliged to carry one on their person at all times)

Just have to think up one more spurious argument (terrorism? stop tax avoidance or welfare fraud? keep track of paedophiles?) and the current government will go for it and drop their amateurish police state attempt with ID cards....





Either that or just consign number plates for cyclists into the crank bin.

fungus_the_muffin_man

Headhuunter wrote:

If they really wanted to license bikes the easiest solution might be to license the rider, so all your bikes would have the same number on them, or you'd wear a T shirt with the number or something...

They could make us all get our number tattoo'd on the back of our necks and a law passed that all long hair has to be kept up in a bun and the number not obstructed whilst riding a bike.

Roastie

In my youth in SA, bikes required license tags. Lasted a year and linked a bike to a person. They were administered by the local authority, but died a quiet death because it was nearly impossible to enforce that bikes should be fitted with them.

Although they were a waste of time, they could be very useful for enforcing traffic laws - providing positive identification of an RLJer for example. I have nothing against licenses except that the requirement (and cost?) for a license tag may be a deterrent to people using cycling as a means of tx.

Headhuunter

Roastie wrote:

In my youth in SA, bikes required license tags. Lasted a year and linked a bike to a person. They were administered by the local authority, but died a quiet death because it was nearly impossible to enforce that bikes should be fitted with them.

Although they were a waste of time, they could be very useful for enforcing traffic laws - providing positive identification of an RLJer for example. I have nothing against licenses except that the requirement (and cost?) for a license tag may be a deterrent to people using cycling as a means of tx.

I just don't think the cost would merit the advantages. So a few people might report RLJers and pavement riders neither of which cause thousands of deaths and injuries per year unlike motorists. Meanwhile, presumably taxpayers in general would be asked to stump up billions of pounds to establish the database, hire staff to manage it etc etc.

cee

agree with what someone else said....

only the good and brave would register....

the scallywags wouldn't bother.

spen666

chuckcork wrote:

....

And think of the effect on illegal immigration, just link a RF scanner to a camera, with a little bit of computer power it would make picking up illegals a piece of cake. (Tourists could be obliged to carry one on their person at all times)

....

Chucky, if ALL tourists have to carry a piece of cake, will their be enough left over for us cyclists to have one at the cafe stop?

chuckcork

spen666 wrote:

chuckcork wrote:

....

And think of the effect on illegal immigration, just link a RF scanner to a camera, with a little bit of computer power it would make picking up illegals a piece of cake. (Tourists could be obliged to carry one on their person at all times)

....

Chucky, if ALL tourists have to carry a piece of cake, will their be enough left over for us cyclists to have one at the cafe stop?

Supply and demand would provide that additional cake supplies would come online to meet demand, we could well be in for a cake led recovery*

*from the theories propounded by the Marie Antoinette school of economics**

**this does have the downside of getting your head chopped off by republicans if everything goes wrong and cake supplies take too long to come available.

spen666

chuckcork wrote:

spen666 wrote:

chuckcork wrote:

....

And think of the effect on illegal immigration, just link a RF scanner to a camera, with a little bit of computer power it would make picking up illegals a piece of cake. (Tourists could be obliged to carry one on their person at all times)

....

Chucky, if ALL tourists have to carry a piece of cake, will their be enough left over for us cyclists to have one at the cafe stop?

Supply and demand would provide that additional cake supplies would come online to meet demand, we could well be in for a cake led recovery*
*from the theories propounded by the Marie Antoinette school of economics**

**this does have the downside of getting your head chopped off by republicans if everything goes wrong and cake supplies take too long to come available.

You've lost the plot- what use is online cake- apart from being calorie free- how can I replenish my energy level on an online cake :twisted: :twisted:

cee

and even worse is that online cake sales can only accelerate the inevitable cake event horizon.

similar to the shoe event horizon....'cept you can eat your way out of it.

jimmypippa

chuckcork wrote:

Why not just go for full blown police state while we're at it with RF Tags implanted under the skin so your ID can be read by automated scanners at a distance, to keep track of you at all times, who you're with or in close proximity to etc?

I figure that mounting a scanner on every 2nd or 3rd power pole, with additional poles erected around the country if no power poles are otherwise present, should knock crime on the head, be a bit hard to claim you're nowhere near a break in if records could prove via triangulation where you were.

And think of the effect on illegal immigration, just link a RF scanner to a camera, with a little bit of computer power it would make picking up illegals a piece of cake. (Tourists could be obliged to carry one on their person at all times)

Just have to think up one more spurious argument (terrorism? stop tax avoidance or welfare fraud? keep track of paedophiles?) and the current government will go for it and drop their amateurish police state attempt with ID cards....





Either that or just consign number plates for cyclists into the crank bin.

Hey, I know you are being sarcastic but I still feel a rant comming on...

biometric IDs will make it harder for opportunistic crimes, but easier for organised crime and terorism, because with cheap equipment they can be hacked.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2006/aug/07/hacking.security

Most of the time the biometrrics will work, so when a terrorist does clone a passort and use it, people won't be expecting it, and they would be less vigilant.

There is also the concern as to how to prove innocence if one is a victim of ID theft in this way.

"The biometrics say that your fingerprints were used to gain access" (Fingerprints have also been cloned: http://www.badscience.net/2007/11/make-your-own-id/)


<rant over>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2006/aug/07/hacking.security

vitesse169

...more to the point, the public already call in with inane rubbish - do we want them to clog up the phone lines with more ?.....

Aidy

Could we have vanity licence plates?

I could see potential there

The Chingford Skinhead

White Line wrote:

...

Would it encourage better policing from the law? Imagine no more RLJ'ing. No more drafting from unknowns. No more night-time ninjas without lights.
[/quote

The main and most powerful argument against licence plates and compulsory tests and paying tax etc isn't the cost of adminstering the schemes (though that is pretty powerful) but that the licensing, testing and taxing of motorists hasn't been very effective in stopping speeding, ASL use, RLJing and the killing of c3000 and injuring of c28,000 a year - never mind the number of near-misses we all experience on a regular basis.

So, that's a Nay from me then

always_tyred

OMG - there are now 7 people who voted "aye".

People - you know that's Scots for "yes" don't you?

White Line

Alright. That was a long read. Must admit my head kinda stopped listening to what I was reading. But, some of it got through.

Quite a lot of point's I hadn't considered. After thinking some more it has turned from a good idea, to a nice idea that would just not work out.

Although, I was thinking (prior to the OP) that it'd be just the rider that is licence and has a plate that can be changed about all their bikes.

Of course all this registration stuff would be taken to far - ending up with MOTs and the likes.

Licence plates on shoes would be awesome! I think Nike already offer a service to get writing on the back of your shoes!

dirk_van_gently

Motor vehicles have to be registered, and as I understand it the idea behind registering bicycles is to make the riders responsible, well it hasn't happened with motor vehicles has it?
every day I see speeding, RLJing, pavement parking, just generally inconsiderate driving, so registration is obviously not the issue, enforcement of the laws of the road is.