Ranty moan about tubeless

Maxticate

So I have lurked here a good long while before actually joining. I should say thanks for the advice thread from last year that lead me to own an avalance 1.0 2008. I have thoroughly enjoyed the bike and recently decided to start upgrading it slightly. I fitted new pedals (wellgo ones from the crunch credit thread) and after reading a lot about it both here and elsewhere decided to go tubeless.

I use the bike in Milton Keynes on the redways for a 6 mile commute to work and I had been getting rather a lot of punctures and going through a lot of inner tubes. The Kenda nevegals had worn out and I read lots of stuff saying things like

"after going tubeless a year ago I haven't had a single puncture and the tyres have worn out now and thats the first time they have been off since fitting them"

and

"You'll never look back"

and

"less weight, less rolling resistance"

Convinced I decided to go the "Ghetto" route and I purchased some Sauserwind Control 2Bliss tyres. I spent the weekend toing and froing from varios LBS's and tesco getting inner tubes and Stan's notube solution. I went through 4 bmx inner tubes and lot of swear words getting it too work (tesco ones do not work on the standard avalanche rims as the trench? is too narrow).

But after all the effort I was most pleased with having got the tubless thing to work. The bike was more comfortable and felt slightly quicker. It rode really well and I looked forward to miles of puncture free cycling.

9 miles of it to be precise. Coming back today going down a hill I heard a massive hissing. something had put a 5mm slit in the tread. The solution in the tyres didn't seal it worth a fig despite carrying on for a bit. I had to stop because the handling was getting squirrily. I tried to keep the solution in that area but it never sealed it for good.

So I had to put a tube in to get me home.

The tube got punctured by a thorn not far from my house so now I have to patch that too.

What's the answer, I feel disappointed.

Anonymous

its a bit dificult for sealant to work on a 5mm slit, it does work fine for normal piercings though.

so if it wasnt for the slit, you would never have even notice the thorn until you changed your tyres, oh the irony!!

adb1006

The answer is, unfortunately, try to use UST tyres and rims. The ghetto thing is a bit hit and miss from what i've heard. Like Sheepsteeth said though, no sealant is going to seal a 5mm slit - it's designed to cope with thorns etc.
I've had full UST for a while now and no problems whatsoever - one puncture that would have sealed had the sealant not "gone off", and a rear tyre exploding which i think was due to a manufacturing fault. When i had to stick a tube in briefly to get home on the ride i got the puncture, there were about 9 thorns in my tyre that would have been punctures had i not been tubeless. Can't argue with that. I was getting at least one puncture a ride before i made the switch. I'll certainly never go back.
I'm about to try out some non-UST tyres on the UST rims though - shed some rolling weight! They can be a biatch to seat though apparently.

Tank-slapper

Check out Stan's 'path of death':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_BsT8D9JYY

CustomReign

Hi

I've been running various Crossmax rims for about 5 years and I'd say it's the way to go. However, stay away from Spech 3Bliss as they are too thin and leak through the sidewalls. UST treads should not need any sealant to be airtight. and 2Bliss need lots which adds the weight you're trying to get rid of. However, get some in there for obvious reasons. I've had 12 thorns in my Trailrakers and not even noticed.

I ride High Rollers, Ignitors, Trailrakers and Scorpions.

I use Linseal (http://www.linseal.com/) which is great and does not eat your rubber. Get it from your local agricultural shop.

All the best mate.

elPedro666

Not a single 5mm slit joke so far...

Like Sheep's said, there's no way any kind of sealant would cope with that - what the hell did you hit?! I've pulled dozens - probably hundreds in fact - of thorns out of my Specialised Air-Locks and they're still going strong after more than a dozen years. Seriously, that's just daft. I did split one on a rock once running it very soft, but that's still not really their fault!

adb1006

CustomReign wrote:

Hi

I've been running various Crossmax rims for about 5 years and I'd say it's the way to go. However, stay away from Spech 3Bliss as they are too thin and leak through the sidewalls. UST treads should not need any sealant to be airtight. and 2Bliss need lots which adds the weight you're trying to get rid of. However, get some in there for obvious reasons. I've had 12 thorns in my Trailrakers and not even noticed.

I ride High Rollers, Ignitors, Trailrakers and Scorpions.

I use Linseal (http://www.linseal.com/) which is great and does not eat your rubber. Get it from your local agricultural shop.

All the best mate.

I've heard a few people say this but i've always used 2bliss and they've been fine. I did make sure i initially stored them on their sides for a couple of hours though, to get the sealant well into the sidewalls as i'd heard they were thin. They "sweat" a little from time to time but not to enough effect the inflation of the tyre.

CustomReign

Hi ABD,

I tried that but maybe not for lonf enoigh or my sealant was too thick. I stand by what I said about UST's should not need sealant, although it'd be daft not to.

Although I'm a heavy chap, they Control's were actually not too bad pumped up hard so they don't fold too much. Mine were both near flat in 3 hours though. LBS swapped them for Ignitors for just a fiver more.

Shame as they were a great price.

adb1006

CustomReign wrote:

Hi ABD,

I tried that but maybe not for lonf enoigh or my sealant was too thick. I stand by what I said about UST's should not need sealant, although it'd be daft not to.

Although I'm a heavy chap, they Control's were actually not too bad pumped up hard so they don't fold too much. Mine were both near flat in 3 hours though. LBS swapped them for Ignitors for just a fiver more.

Shame as they were a great price.

I'm really not sold on the whole "they shouldn't need sealant" thing. I've never tried it, and like you say, for obvious reasons, i never would. I don't use very much in mine though. I stored them on their sides for a good 1 hour each side at least. Like i say though, they still "sweat" a little from time to time - wondered what the fook it was at first :?

I'm about to try out some Speedking Supersonics i think

CustomReign

Hi ADB,

As I see it, it should hold air without puncture sealant. Glad you're sorted.

I'd be interested in what you think to the new Speedkings. Always interested in others opinions.

Also, not sure what tracks you ride but I bought some 2.1 Nevegals which I thought were awful. They felt like they were spitting be all over the place and most pressures and were a pig to pedal.

Have had them on my DHer though (2.5's, I think) and they were great. Not too far off 60A 2.5 High Rollers.

I 'd love a UST XC High Roller on my bike again, but they feel too thin as 2.1's. Been looking at Small Block 8's in UST. Might have to give them a shot.

Maxticate

Unfortunately I have no idea what I hit.

I went back up the redway a little way after I had finished fixing the flat but couldn't see anything. Whilst I was there about half a dozen cyclists went up and down the same section of redway with no problem whatsoever.

The 2Bliss tyres had sealed really well. The first night they lost a lot of pressure but after a bit more playing from the sunday ride to the monday morning they lost hardly anything. I was running them at right on 40 psi.

Is there anyway to repair the tyre to carry on going tubeless or am I stuck witha tube again until the tyre needs changing?

adb1006

Just clean the tyre thoroughly and stick a puncture repair patch to the inside over the hole. The air pressure will force the patch onto the tyre once it's inflated also - unlike with tubes where the pressure can force te patch off. My mate has both his front and rear patched and they're fine.

Salsa

Mine pumped up & held air without sealant (UST Conti Race Kings/Bontrager UST rims & strips) but I let them down after a days 'seating' & added some sealant.

Those 'Tubeless Ready' branded tyres are not real UST tyres from what I remember, they are lighter than a proper UST tyre for a reason (thinner walls iirc).
I've ran ghetto tubeless before & tbh I never had much faith in it, especially after I had the front tyre rip off the rim on a high speed stop.
Those systems work do fine for some people though, must be a tyre/rim combo thing.

Since I've put the real UST on about 2 months ago mine have held air fine & I have full confidence in them at low pressures, they might be a little heavier than a Stan's/ghetto set up but the piece of mind that they are going to stay put is worth it (plus my bikes 19.09lb so what's a few grams to me).

Dazzza

With a full ust setup do you still need to use compressed air?

Im very tempted to go ust this year with a new set of wheels, im tired of fishing out thorns all the time........

Salsa

I used a track pump to inflate mine, easy.

stu8975

As far as fixing your tyre, get a Panaracer tubeless repair kit, approx £10, if you get a flat you simply plug the hole externally, no need to remove the tyre, as long as the sealant has sealed your sidewalls to the rim you should be ok to pump it back up with a mini pump otherwise you may struggle to inflate.

mattbarnes

With regards to going tubeless, my advice would be to give it a wide berth.
I was running Mavic 819's with various UST tyres and they were all a b!tch to seat and inflate. Some tyres would go on and inflate within seconds and others I could work on for hours resulting in me throwing wheel and tyre down the garden in fury as I tended to my bleeding hands.
Yes, you can run them at lower pressures but, honestly, how many of us stop mid-ride to alter the PSI in our tyres to suit the terrain? I never did.
Also, they weigh a bloody ton. All in, the front and rear weighed in at nearly 2.5kg (including hubs, spokes, rims, tyres, sealant, QR's, rotors, etc) so there is no weight saving bonus.
Needless to say, I have ditched the tubeless wheels and have resorted back to traditional tubed tyres. They're lighter, cheaper to shod in rubber and less hassle all round.
Overall, tubeless tyres are just another MTB gimmick that'll be going the way of Biopace rings and dual shifters and that day can't come quick enough for me.

CustomReign

Chuck some tubes in them Matt.

I'm loving UST. What a fanfastic difference.