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Lazy Drafting ****

Hurricane151Hurricane151 Posts: 632
edited August 2009 in Commuting chat
Was ridning home today putting in the usual effort when i came up behind a guy just crusing along at a fairly slow pace so i get up behind him and pass him immediately. next thing i know he's on my tail, and i mean right on my tail.

there was quite a head wind on the way home too so i was doing all the work. plus whenever i looked over my shoulder to check for cars he was so close i couldn't see. a thing.

Half of me is a little annoyed with what he was doing but i guess the other half was more annoyed i couldn't pull away from him.

looks like i'll have to do a bit more work on the power side of my riding. a bit downheartening as i thought i was doing so well but to see how easy this guy stuck with me on his MTB was soul destroying.

Anyway rant over.... must try harder next time.
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  • AidyAidy Posts: 2,015
    there was quite a head wind on the way home too so i was doing all the work. plus whenever i looked over my shoulder to check for cars he was so close i couldn't see. a thing.

    Unless he's unfeasibly wide, how does that work?

    I've never gotten why people get so upset by others slipstreaming them, you're faster than they are. Take the compliment :)
  • biondinobiondino Posts: 5,990
    You really weren't tempted to just suddenly get up out of the saddle and lay down 30 seconds of awesome? Surely there's no way he'd have been able to catch you having lost the tow. If he did catch you, then I reckon you'd have still lost your scalp, but at least you'd have known he was a worthier opponent.
  • jedsterjedster Posts: 1,717
    I've never gotten why people get so upset by others slipstreaming them, you're faster than they are. Take the compliment

    Er, perhaps because we don't trust total strangers not to ride into us if we have to slam on the anchors? I know you and trust your riding fine. Otherwise give me some space.

    Incidently it doesnt have to be that much space - I'm only worried about people RIGHT on my wheel.

    J
  • avoidingmyphdavoidingmyphd Posts: 1,154
    somewhere on here there's a thread about the aero benefit the front rider gets when someone sits in his slipstream

    it's all greek to me, but it might reassure you?
  • you could try eating some of the suggestions from the breville thread. people might think twice about drafting you then.
  • jongingejonginge Posts: 5,945
    somewhere on here there's a thread about the aero benefit the front rider gets when someone sits in his slipstream

    it's all greek to me, but it might reassure you?
    Here: http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12625075
    Alluded to that thread in a ponder over in the "spolier" thread
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • cjcpcjcp Posts: 13,345
    JonGinge wrote:
    somewhere on here there's a thread about the aero benefit the front rider gets when someone sits in his slipstream

    it's all greek to me, but it might reassure you?
    Here: http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12625075
    Alluded to that thread in a ponder over in the "spolier" thread

    I don't care what the crazy men in white coats say: I'm the one blowing through my @rse in the Embankment headwind, not the drafting fairy clinging to my rear wheel (which happened all too frequently last week).
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 20,050
    I picked up my very own cling on tonight for 2 junctions before I grew tired of the noise from their hybrid, I treated them to a display of awesome exceleration Served on a bed of humble pie, repeated again with they RLJ over blackfriars
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • AguilaAguila Posts: 622
    JonGinge wrote:
    somewhere on here there's a thread about the aero benefit the front rider gets when someone sits in his slipstream

    it's all greek to me, but it might reassure you?
    Here: http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12625075
    Alluded to that thread in a ponder over in the "spolier" thread

    This effect is absolutely tiny compared to the benefit the hanger on wheelsucker gets. If they don't know you I always drop them for the safety reasons as above.

    Plus it's just plain rude.
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    I have long since waged war on drafters.

    My initial tactic was to drop the awesome but on occasion I've blown up. SO new tactic drop back to a crawl until they overtake (and it's surprising how long they hang on for... I'm talking 5mph crawl and they're still behind...).

    As soon as they overtake get on their wheel and constantly buzz around them often hanging on the right side of them sat just over their rear wheel. Constantly burn a hole in their back with your eyes ensuring that they can feel your presence. When they start to weaken (usually up hill) drop'em, looking back ala Lance Armstrong.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • AidyAidy Posts: 2,015
    Aguila wrote:
    This effect is absolutely tiny compared to the benefit the hanger on wheelsucker gets. If they don't know you I always drop them for the safety reasons as above.

    Plus it's just plain rude.

    Why is it rude?
    Do you also consider it rude to slipstream cars/busses/vans, etc?
    I'd consider it far ruder to sprint past me and then slow down.

    I don't really care if people slipstream me, but on the basis that I'll have overtaken them for them to be behind me, chances are they're not going to keep up.
  • cjcpcjcp Posts: 13,345
    IMO, it's rude if (a) they don't ask, (b) they continue to draft if they've been waved through and (c) don't say "thanks" for the tow.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • AguilaAguila Posts: 622
    Aidy wrote:
    Aguila wrote:
    This effect is absolutely tiny compared to the benefit the hanger on wheelsucker gets. If they don't know you I always drop them for the safety reasons as above.

    Plus it's just plain rude.

    Why is it rude?
    Do you also consider it rude to slipstream cars/busses/vans, etc?
    I'd consider it far ruder to sprint past me and then slow down.

    I don't really care if people slipstream me, but on the basis that I'll have overtaken them for them to be behind me, chances are they're not going to keep up.

    I dont draft cars/buses/vans etc, that's dangerous.

    It's rude because its my personal space. If I want to ride with someone I'll ask them. I do not want to ride with someone I dont know that close to me.

    Also I only overtake people I am clearly going quicker than.
  • had some geezer about an inch from my back wheel the other day. Uphill with an unholy headwind that I struggled keeping 10-12mph in, and I had to endure 3 miles of clicking thanks to the unserviced BB of the MTBer behind me. I was a bit worried about how close he was but not too bothered until I eased on the brakes coming up to a busy round about and he thumped into the back of me and called me a stupid censored . I didn't even bother looking back, I just shook my head, got out the saddle and climbed the next hill venting my anger through my legs.
    Schwinn Fastback Comp : FCN 5
    The Flying Scot : FCN 515q6cuv.png
    My Life, My Bike & My Xbox
  • Aguila wrote:
    Aidy wrote:
    Aguila wrote:

    Also I only overtake people I am clearly going quicker than.

    I totally agree with this and at the time I was probably a good few MPH faster than this guy and overtaking wasn't an issue, quite easy really. but it was after this that he decided to speed up and catch the free ride off the back of my hard work.

    it was this that annoyed me. he just seemed a bit peeved that i overtook him anf wanted to prove a point maybe by hanging on my tail

    oh well just need to to try harder and try putting a a better sprint in as i go past next time.

    just wish i had have been on my roadie, reckon i would have left him for dead.
  • AidyAidy Posts: 2,015
    Aguila wrote:

    I dont draft cars/buses/vans etc, that's dangerous.

    It's rude because its my personal space. If I want to ride with someone I'll ask them. I do not want to ride with someone I dont know that close to me.

    Also I only overtake people I am clearly going quicker than.

    Sounds like a selfish attitude to me.

    Akin to car drivers claiming that bikes impede their personal space.

    Do you call back to them to ask if they'd mind moving back a little/overtaking, or do you just pedal away seething in silence?
  • Tom BartonTom Barton Posts: 516
    Why is it rude?

    Think laterally to cars - if someone tailgates you it is very aggrivating. Why? Because it is dangerous, the driver following close behind does not know you and has no idea how you may react to a given situation and his reactions will almost certainly land you in an accident if there is a need to stop suddenly.

    On a bike, riders who know eachother may ride together frequently and work as a team when riding in close together, they know how eachother will react to situations most of the time and are shall we say 'on the same wavelength'.

    However if you don't know a rider the car tailgating risks are there - whos to say if you brake suddenly its not going to end up all over the tarmac..

    Plus - if you were running and a stranger came and ran 3inches behind you over your shoulder you'd feel very insecure. If a copper catches a driver tailgating dangerously he'll give them a ticket. Why is a bike different?
  • AidyAidy Posts: 2,015
    So now, my next question.

    If people are so up in arms about uninvited slipstreaming, why do people care so much about lack of mudguards in wet weather, becrying "antisocial behaviour".

    The two would appear to be pretty contrary.
  • Aidy wrote:
    So now, my next question.

    If people are so up in arms about uninvited slipstreaming, why do people care so much about lack of mudguards in wet weather, becrying "antisocial behaviour".

    The two would appear to be pretty contrary.

    can't say i've ever had a problem with spray, but i'm really not keen on drafting by someone who doesn't know or some where expected ie club runs etc.
  • elliebellieb Posts: 436
    All you have to do is brake sharply, the ignorant [email protected] behind will hit your back wheel with his front wheel and fall off. job done.
  • always_tyredalways_tyred Posts: 4,965
    biondino wrote:
    You really weren't tempted to just suddenly get up out of the saddle and lay down 30 seconds of awesome?
    Is there such a thing as pre-emtive awesome?
    If you invest in 5 or so seconds of pre-awesome, you will pass with sufficient awesome that the potential drafting fairy is driven to the point of hero worship.
  • cjcpcjcp Posts: 13,345
    Aidy wrote:
    So now, my next question.

    If people are so up in arms about uninvited slipstreaming, why do people care so much about lack of mudguards in wet weather, becrying "antisocial behaviour".

    The two would appear to be pretty contrary.

    One of the reasons I don't use mudguards is to keep the drafting fairies off in that weather. If you're getting spray in your face, you're probably too close.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • cjcpcjcp Posts: 13,345
    biondino wrote:
    You really weren't tempted to just suddenly get up out of the saddle and lay down 30 seconds of awesome?
    Is there such a thing as pre-emtive awesome?
    If you invest in 5 or so seconds of pre-awesome, you will pass with sufficient awesome that the potential drafting fairy is driven to the point of hero worship.

    Occasionally though, you're lucky enough to spot a drafting fairy who's out of the saddle, hammering the pedals to get your wheel. :lol:
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • always_tyredalways_tyred Posts: 4,965
    If Chuck Norris passed a drafting fairly, they'd be sucked off by his slipstream.
  • cjcpcjcp Posts: 13,345
    :lol: Here we go. Chuck Norris/CP, CP/Chuck Norris all over again.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • BhimaBhima Posts: 2,145
    Actually, when someone's in your slipstream, they decrease YOUR drag by between 3% - 25%. It's more of a pronounced effect in a headwind/faster speeds.

    I hog the entire lane 100% of the time these days so never get any drafting fairies, as most cyclists are usually too scared to ride more than a meter away from the kurb. When you overtake the cyclist in front, the trick is to not move left to the side of the lane immediately - they expect you're going to do that and it makes it easy for them to accelerate up to you, so they don't dare try to jump onto your wheel if you continue on in the centre of the lane, because of the proximity of the cars coming up behind you! :shock:
  • Bhima wrote:
    Actually, when someone's in your slipstream, they decrease YOUR drag by between 3% - 25%. It's more of a pronounced effect in a headwind/faster speeds.

    I hog the entire lane 100% of the time these days so never get any drafting fairies, as most cyclists are usually too scared to ride more than a meter away from the kurb. When you overtake the cyclist in front, the trick is to not move left to the side of the lane immediately - they expect you're going to do that and it makes it easy for them to accelerate up to you, so they don't dare try to jump onto your wheel if you continue on in the centre of the lane, because of the proximity of the cars coming up behind you! :shock:

    to be honest thats pritty much what i do, ie i don't cut in.
  • AguilaAguila Posts: 622
    Aidy wrote:
    Aguila wrote:

    I dont draft cars/buses/vans etc, that's dangerous.

    It's rude because its my personal space. If I want to ride with someone I'll ask them. I do not want to ride with someone I dont know that close to me.

    Also I only overtake people I am clearly going quicker than.

    Sounds like a selfish attitude to me.

    Akin to car drivers claiming that bikes impede their personal space.

    Do you call back to them to ask if they'd mind moving back a little/overtaking, or do you just pedal away seething in silence?

    What an utter load of toss!

    1 When I'm out riding I'm not providing a public service.

    2 If I was riding constantly 10cm away from a drivers door/tailgate yes that would be both dangerous and rude.

    3 I simply accelerate away from them to make the point.

    Why are you so desperate to ride so close to total strangers anyway? There's a wide range of internet dating sites available you know.
  • AguilaAguila Posts: 622
    Aidy wrote:
    So now, my next question.

    If people are so up in arms about uninvited slipstreaming, why do people care so much about lack of mudguards in wet weather, becrying "antisocial behaviour".

    The two would appear to be pretty contrary.

    This is a totally different situation, this is INVITED slipstreaming

    This applies to riding with your friends, who you know can ride safely and have agreed in advance to ride with taking turns at the front etc.
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 10,720
    There is some high quality trolling happening on here no?

    The only uninvited slipstreaming I have ever come across was in Italy, but that was superb, as the people took their turns at the front, and we ended up with a fast moving train.

    People bid farewell as they left/turned off or what have you.

    I certainly would not welcome someone I didn't know sitting right on my back wheel (Unless they asked, and then took turns on the front), be it on my bike, or in a car, (The asking and taking turns on the front does not apply to the car bit......) conversely if I am out with friends on bikes who I trust then they can sit as close as they want, and if I happen to be convoying somewhere in the car with another car following, then he can get nice and close if he wants, as we are likely to know each others style of driving.

    Dan
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
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