Forum home Commuter cycling forum Commuting chat

RLJ'ing - are we all guilty really?

secretsamsecretsam Posts: 4,612
edited July 2009 in Commuting chat
It's occurred to me that although there's rightly a large volume of bile and general fury directed at RLJ'ers, we actually all do it, after a fashion...

Why so? Because we all cross the road when the little red man is showing - in other European countries (e.g. Sweden, Germany) they don't do this and frown upon foreigners who do - but here it's OK. I've lost count of people I've nearly clattered into in London who run the red - warning, sexist statement ahead - and a large proportion seem to be the laydeez.

So is RLJ'ing on a bike really just an extension of pedestrian behaviour? And with the increasing ignorance of pedestrian right of way on pelican crossings, are drivers only one step behind?

Your two penn'worth would be appreciated.

It's just a hill. Get over it.
«1

Posts

  • Agent57Agent57 Posts: 2,300
    edited July 2009
    It's easy to avoid crossing when the red man's showing; cross 1 metre down the road from the crossing, so technically you're not using it at all. Result. :lol:
    And with the increasing ignorance of pedestrian right of way on pelican crossings, are drivers only one step behind?

    Pedestrians don't have right on way on pelican crossings though. At least, not until the man is green/lights are red.

    Pedestrians have right of way on zebra crossings though; but I recall being told that right of way only comes into play once the pedestrian has a foot on the crossing.
    MTB commuter / 531c commuter / CR1 Team 2009 / RockHopper Pro Disc / 10 mile PB: 25:52 (Jun 2014)
  • Why so? Because we all cross the road when the little red man is showing
    we do?
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,014
    secretsam wrote:
    Why so? Because we all cross the road when the little red man is showing - in other European countries (e.g. Sweden, Germany) they don't do this and frown upon foreigners who do - but here it's OK.

    It's OK because it is legal here to cross when the little red man is showing (don't think it is in some other countries) - RLJing is illegal hence two different things.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • iainmentiainment Posts: 992
    Agent57 wrote:
    It's easy to avoid crossing when the red man's showing; cross 1 metre down the road from the crossing, so technically you're not using it at all. Result. :lol:
    And with the increasing ignorance of pedestrian right of way on pelican crossings, are drivers only one step behind?

    Pedestrians don't have right on way on pelican crossings though. At least, not until the man is green/lights are red.

    Pedestrians have right of way on zebra crossings though; but I recall being told that right of way only comes into play once the pedestrian has a foot on the crossing.

    Pedestrians might not have the right of way, I don't know, but I always yield to them if safe and possible. Seems to me that the most vulnerable should get right of way before others.
    So I would give priority in this order, peds, cyclists, motorbikes and then 4 wheel vehicles if I drafted the law.
    Old hippies don't die, they just lie low until the laughter stops and their time comes round again.
    Joseph Gallivan
  • dilemnadilemna Posts: 2,187
    edited July 2009
    secretsam wrote:
    It's occurred to me that although there's rightly a large volume of bile and general fury directed at RLJ'ers, we actually all do it, after a fashion...

    Why so? Because we all cross the road when the little red man is showing - in other European countries (e.g. Sweden, Germany) they don't do this and frown upon foreigners who do - but here it's OK. I've lost count of people I've nearly clattered into in London who run the red - warning, sexist statement ahead - and a large proportion seem to be the laydeez.

    So is RLJ'ing on a bike really just an extension of pedestrian behaviour? And with the increasing ignorance of pedestrian right of way on pelican crossings, are drivers only one step behind?

    Your two penn'worth would be appreciated.

    No we don't ALL jump red lights. Are you seeking to justify your wrong doing? You and your ilk get cyclists a bad image. Simply because you see others doing it you think it is ok for you to do so is ridicalous.
    Life is like a roll of toilet paper; long and useful, but always ends at the wrong moment. Anon.
    Think how stupid the average person is.......
    half of them are even more stupid than you first thought.
  • lost_in_thoughtlost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    Is it actually illegal in this country to cross when the red man is showing, as opposed to the green man?

    In other news, I think I may have RLJed last night - if the light is amber when you enter the junction, but red as you leave it, is that RLJing?
  • Paulie WPaulie W Posts: 1,492
    Not to state the obvious but it is not illegal to cross at a red man on a pelican crossing, etc, the light simply indicate when it is 'safe' to cross
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,014
    Is it actually illegal in this country to cross when the red man is showing, as opposed to the green man?

    I read somewhere (on the internet so it must be true) that the reason the symbol is a man is that they can't use a red disc because that would imply it was illegal to cross (which it isn't). By using another symbol (ie the little man), it means that the symbols are advisory.

    I noticed abroad, particularly in Denmark, that people do stop when the little man is red even if there isn't a moving car visible for miles.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,558
    edited July 2009
    Pedestrians have right of way on the roads at all times. Obviously this has to be used with a high level of common sense - courts will always consider contributory negligence on the part of the victim in case of a collision.

    I think it's one of the few things we've got right - and other countries have got wrong. Countless Brits have ended up being stopped/ fined/ arrested for jaywalking in the US - and my wife tells me it's very similar in Poland. Sounds oppressive to me - a sure fire way to ensure that cars rule and pedestrians are permanently sidelined.
  • roger_merrimanroger_merriman Posts: 6,155
    the problem with the ped lights is they often take ages and ages so people get fed up and cross. and then only gets you to say the traffic island say...
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,558
    the problem with the ped lights is they often take ages and ages so people get fed up and cross. and then only gets you to say the traffic island say...

    Unfortunately they only became necessary because other road users (cars, lorries, bikes etc) do not always respect the pedestrian right of way. In my experience only a tiny number do. when I drive I try to as often as possible - unfortunately incurring the wrath of other car drivers when I do - and when I give way to cyclists, which I always do - usually getting beeped - shouted at - called alsorts. Just makes me more determined though. 8)
  • Agent57Agent57 Posts: 2,300
    Porgy wrote:
    Pedestrians have right of way on the roads at all times.

    Really? Well in that case I suppose they do have right of way on pelican crossings, whether the main road traffic lights are indicating. Still, as you suggest, it's pretty risky to assert that right of way when there's vehicular traffic around.
    MTB commuter / 531c commuter / CR1 Team 2009 / RockHopper Pro Disc / 10 mile PB: 25:52 (Jun 2014)
  • Soul BoySoul Boy Posts: 359
    Blimey excuses for RLJing are getting pretty tenuous…. :?
  • mswmsw Posts: 313
    In other news, I think I may have RLJed last night - if the light is amber when you enter the junction, but red as you leave it, is that RLJing?

    Naaah. When you see amber you're supposed stop if you can do so safely given your speed - not to screech to a halt all over the middle of the junction.

    Plus, there's a real difference between "jumping" a red light - i.e. turning on the burners in an attempt to get through before it goes red from amber, but just failing - and blithely sailing through it as if it wasn't there with no attempt or intention to stop, even though you easily could. The first one doesn't bother me. The second one drives me mad.
    "We're not holding up traffic. We are traffic."
  • amneziaamnezia Posts: 590
    the difference is that pedestrians are allowed to cross the road on a red
  • schlepcyclingschlepcycling Posts: 1,578
    According to Wikipedia the font of all online knowledge it is legal in England and Wales to cross all roads except motorways, whereas in NI 'jaywalking' can be charged at police discretion, there's no mention of the law in Scotland. As for peds right of way it says that the Highway Code specifically mentions the case of a car turning into a road where a ped is already crossing in this case the ped automatically has priority.
    'Hello to Jason Isaacs'
  • Fireblade96Fireblade96 Posts: 1,123
    It is legal in this country to cross when the little green man isn't showing ! Thankfully the nanny state hasn't yet removed that liberty from us.

    In fact, it really irks me when I see peds waiting beside a crossing where there is clearly no traffic coming, just because the little green man isn't lit up. Sometimes, you just have to take responsibility for your own safety ! Look and see if there's any traffic coming, and if there isn't, cross the frickin' road !!!!!

    The corrolary is the ped who waits at a traffic-light controlled crossing, peering to see if the little green man is going to light up, in spite of the fact that the lights are red, the traffic stopped, and if they went now they'd get across fine. They hesitate, they dither, then they finally crack and lurch into the crossing just as the lights finally go green. Grr.....

    Me, I'm perfect. Obviously.
    Misguided Idealist
  • always_tyredalways_tyred Posts: 4,965
    Is it actually illegal in this country to cross when the red man is showing, as opposed to the green man?

    In other news, I think I may have RLJed last night - if the light is amber when you enter the junction, but red as you leave it, is that RLJing?
    Depends if it was safe to stop on amber. If not, then you were okay to go through and opposing traffic must wait until the jtn has cleared.

    Red - stop.
    Amber - stop if safe to do so
    Green - proceed with caution (if junction clear)
  • secretsamsecretsam Posts: 4,612
    dilemna wrote:
    No we don't ALL jump red lights. Are you seeking to justify your wrong doing? You and your ilk get cyclists a bad image. Simply because you see others doing it you think it is ok for you to do so is ridicalous.

    Err...no, I think you'll find I'm not an RLJ'er. Read first line of my post. And then wash your mouth out :evil: :lol: .

    I'm in no way condoning the behaviour, I'm just noting that a number of us do something similar on crossings; it was an original thought that occurred to me as I was daydreaming on the A40 the other day... :shock:

    It's just a hill. Get over it.
  • Agent57Agent57 Posts: 2,300
    In fact, it really irks me when I see peds waiting beside a crossing where there is clearly no traffic coming, just because the little green man isn't lit up. Sometimes, you just have to take responsibility for your own safety ! Look and see if there's any traffic coming, and if there isn't, cross the frickin' road !!!!!

    I agree - unless my kids are with me. If I'm with my kids, I wait for the man to go green because it makes it more likely they'll wait for the green man when I'm not with them. Or, at least, it'll reinforce the point that crossing on the red man is more risky.
    MTB commuter / 531c commuter / CR1 Team 2009 / RockHopper Pro Disc / 10 mile PB: 25:52 (Jun 2014)
  • Fireblade96Fireblade96 Posts: 1,123
    secretsam wrote:
    ........ thought that occurred to me as I was daydreaming on the A40 the other day... :shock:

    Ahem. Driving without due care and attention. Now that *is* illegal.

    :twisted: :lol:
    Misguided Idealist
  • secretsamsecretsam Posts: 4,612
    secretsam wrote:
    ........ thought that occurred to me as I was daydreaming on the A40 the other day... :shock:

    Ahem. Driving without due care and attention. Now that *is* illegal.

    :twisted: :lol:

    Technically, riding without due care and attention.

    Illegal and frankly, daft given the road in question...

    It's just a hill. Get over it.
  • DuduDudu Posts: 4,637
    secretsam wrote:
    It's occurred to me that although there's rightly a large volume of bile and general fury directed at RLJ'ers, we actually all do it, after a fashion...

    Why so? Because we all cross the road when the little red man is showing

    Not me. I'd rather stay in one piece, avoid the hassle of trying to dodge vehicles and avoid annoying people who are cycling or driving legally. When cycling, I also get annoyed by pedestrians who cross in front of me when the lights are green for me, red for them.
    ___________________________________________
    People need to be told what to do so badly they'll listen to anyone
  • DuduDudu Posts: 4,637
    Is it actually illegal in this country to cross when the red man is showing, as opposed to the green man?

    No. Pedestrians are allowed to cross anywhere provided they exercise care. Usually, they don't exercise care, and then eff and blind about the cyclists (and sometimes motorists) legally riding through green lights who almost run into them.
    ___________________________________________
    People need to be told what to do so badly they'll listen to anyone
  • Paulie WPaulie W Posts: 1,492
    Dudu wrote:
    Is it actually illegal in this country to cross when the red man is showing, as opposed to the green man?

    No. Pedestrians are allowed to cross anywhere provided they exercise care. Usually, they don't exercise care, and then eff and blind about the cyclists (and sometimes motorists) legally riding through green lights who almost run into them.

    Or alternatively, the vast majority cross in a perfectly reasonable fashion and have neither the need or inclination to engage in a slanging match with other road users.
  • DuduDudu Posts: 4,637
    Paulie W wrote:
    Dudu wrote:
    Is it actually illegal in this country to cross when the red man is showing, as opposed to the green man?

    No. Pedestrians are allowed to cross anywhere provided they exercise care. Usually, they don't exercise care, and then eff and blind about the cyclists (and sometimes motorists) legally riding through green lights who almost run into them.

    Or alternatively, the vast majority cross in a perfectly reasonable fashion and have neither the need or inclination to engage in a slanging match with other road users.

    You don't walk or cycle in Central London, then? Most ped crossings are full of lemming hordes whether the little man is red or green, especially outside tube stations.
    ___________________________________________
    People need to be told what to do so badly they'll listen to anyone
  • Agent57Agent57 Posts: 2,300
    Dudu wrote:
    You don't walk or cycle in Central London, then? Most ped crossings are full of lemming hordes whether the little man is red or green, especially outside tube stations.

    So not representative of the majority of pedestrians around the UK then. O_o
    MTB commuter / 531c commuter / CR1 Team 2009 / RockHopper Pro Disc / 10 mile PB: 25:52 (Jun 2014)
  • Paulie WPaulie W Posts: 1,492
    Dudu wrote:
    Paulie W wrote:
    Dudu wrote:
    Is it actually illegal in this country to cross when the red man is showing, as opposed to the green man?

    No. Pedestrians are allowed to cross anywhere provided they exercise care. Usually, they don't exercise care, and then eff and blind about the cyclists (and sometimes motorists) legally riding through green lights who almost run into them.

    Or alternatively, the vast majority cross in a perfectly reasonable fashion and have neither the need or inclination to engage in a slanging match with other road users.

    You don't walk or cycle in Central London, then? Most ped crossings are full of lemming hordes whether the little man is red or green, especially outside tube stations.

    I lived and cycled in London for 10 years and oh London is not the centre of the earth, nor is it the 'norm'. I just find it irritating - and dont take that personally - how quick we - as in we cyclists, commuters - are to characterise/stereotype every other road user in a negative fashion.
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    I don't f*cking know.

    Firstly I try not to endager others.

    Secondly my level of resposnsibility increases with the potential amount of damage I could cause.

    I.e.

    I don't follow the rules as a pedestrian, I cross when the road is clear.

    I sometimes follow the rules on a bike. I may pass crossings if clear but red light is on, I won't pass junctions with roads on my left and right.

    I follow the rules always and absolutely when in a car.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • O'DayO'Day Posts: 26
    Paulie W wrote:
    I lived and cycled in London for 10 years and oh London is not the centre of the earth, nor is it the 'norm'. I just find it irritating - and dont take that personally - how quick we - as in we cyclists, commuters - are to characterise/stereotype every other road user in a negative fashion.

    True that. I often catch myself out characterising people and situations with reference to the worst possible individuals and instances encountered.

    Tends to be like that on here a lot (see!). Such distortions of reality can however be justified as being of therapeutic value.
Sign In or Register to comment.