etape 2009 (is it me)
mac111051
Posts: 92
Can someone please explain to me why any one would want to pay so much money to ride on roads that are open to the public , when they could do the same route for a fraction of the price they pay a tour operator, on a day to suit yourself, riding with your own mates instead of 9000 other riders staying in nice hotels instead of the cheap ones the operators use, at half the price, and then they stop you riding the last mountain because you got there to late, is it me
0
Comments
-
It's almost you
Doing an event with thousands of others is a great buzz. However I get the feeling that the Etape is too much of a scrum and a rip-off. Better to do a smaller, cheaper event, of which there are many. Not that I'm not seriously considering it in a year or two ...
0 -
I understand where you're coming from - and I'm sure it's not 'just you'.
However, to put an alternate perspective...
A big part of the enjoyment of the day was that it was with 9000 other riders. It was great to spend time with so many like-minded folk. I got chatting to loads of people and really enjoyed that aspect of the ride.
A lot of the fun also comes from the fact that the ride's on closed roads. For me, almost my favourite moment was coming to the first roundabout of the day with a big group of riders, and then splitting into two to go both sides of it...just like the Tour! Stupid I know, but it made me smile inside and out.
It's great to have all the support of locals and travelling 'fans' too. Made the day unique and memorable.
The pressure of the elimination time - for me at least - increased the sense of challenge. With anything like this, the greater the risk of failure, the greater the sense of achievement when/if you actually manage to complete it. That's what I was trying to convince myself in the runup to the Etape anyway!
I completely agree that there should probably be some 'cut-off' beyond which you can't be eliminated. I heard of people being stopped from riding around Chalet Reynard, which is clearly absolutely ridiculous. To have made it that far and not be allowed to carry on must have been absolutely heartbreaking.
Finally, I - like many people - used the Etape as an opportunity to raise money for charity. The fact that it's a proper 'event' that's an actual stage of the Tour de France makes it a whole lot easier to 'sell' to friends and colleagues who obviously aren't going to sponsor you for going on a ride with your mates.
I should say - for transparency - that I was very lucky to do it with the Sky team, so only had to pay for my flights. However, as a 'beginner' I've probably spent upwards of £4000 in the last 5 months buying a bike/turbo trainer and all the other stuff that you need to prepare for the Etape. I regard it all as money well spent0 -
On the day of the Etape the roads are closed to traffic, makes any descents a little more enjoyable knowing there isnt a car coming the other way. Riding along in big peletons (whilst not at full race speed) is also different to what you usually get to do. Traffic free climbs on mountain roads will also be a little more enjoyable.
I've done the Etape for the last 2 years, its the size of the event and the 9,000 entrants that gives it a buzz and makes it a bit different to other smaller sportives.
Think I may try another smaller french or italian sportive next year, just because they are a bit of something different to look forward to in my calendar and organising the trip is all part and parcel of that.
Your arguments apply equally to a domestic sportives where you can pay £30 for under-stocked feed stations (yes I know they f**ked up at Chalet Reynard this year with water, although not when I went through) to ride roads which still have traffic on, you can ride or drive to any weekend of the year and the numbers are that low that you may as well be doing a solo ride if you've not gone along with club mates. Which is why I haven't bothered doing any domestic ones this year, I can go and do a hilly 100 in the peak district any weekend I like.
I agree the tour operators are overpriced though, which is why I paid for entry only (yes I accept, still high) and incorporated the day into my summer holiday which included watching the Tour go up Ventoux on the Saturday. Me & the missus stayed in a beautiful Chambre d'hote 15 kms from the start with swimming pool and views across lavendar fields to ventoux, missus was there and enjoyed watching the riders go through Bedoin and then I met her for a nice cold beer in the sunshine in Maulacene - it was a bit of an easier sell to the missus than a wet weekend in wales....
Each to their own I say, but don't knock it until you've tried it, I'd encourage everyone to try one of the big continental sportives at least once.
If you want to try a cheaper mass participation sportive I would recommend the Tour of Flanders sportive - cheap good quality hotels in Brussels, great ride up the famous bergs with big crowds cheering you on and then watch the pro's do it the next day with a belgian beer in your hand. Or save yourself the 20 Euro entry fee and do it with your mates any other day - but climbing the Koppenberg on your own isn't quite the same buzz as doing it with a throng of belgians all shouting and bawling to keep pedalling.. and climbing a traffic free ventoux last monday was a similar memorable experience.
I drove up ventoux last sunday and I can honestly say that when there was heavy weekend traffic including large camper vans going up and down the mountain, it didnt look quite the same experience as during the etape
and beating the broom wagon (or not doing) is part and parcel of it - everyone enters knowing its there, there will always be those who have some sort of mechanical disaster which slows them down, but otherwise its part of the challenge you take on when you enter.
I've only done 2 sportives this year, flanders and the etape - and i've bl**dy loved them both, precisely because they were big memorable events - give one a try, you may just surpise yourself (like I did) and enjoy it more than you expect to0 -
Why is a seat on a Friday eve flight to Paris worth more than the same one on a tuesday afternoon? It's not the same thing.
Riding in car/truck traffic on your own is simply not the same as riding in a peleton on closed roads in a carnival atmosphere. Etape Caledonia (tack throwers aside) is a good event but it's not a TdF stage with all the history and culture that entails. There is also a lot of medical backup which hopefully you won't need - I did! (and many thanks to Shirish for his help on the day). And most of us dont carry spare tyres - I doubt I would have been able to get hold of one half way up Ventoux on a normal day after mine exploded....0 -
I heard its like a festival of suffering. :roll:Shazam !!0
-
It was an awesome day. I thought that once I'd done it, I wouldn't be fussed about repeating it. However, I would love to do it again - it was AMAZING! After getting married and having the kids, it comes next on my most memorable ever days list. I loved every minute of it - even when I was crying my eyes out at Chalet Reynard.0
-
What slow said.0
-
mac111051 wrote:Can someone please explain to me why any one would want to pay so much money to ride on roads that are open to the public , when they could do the same route for a fraction of the price they pay a tour operator, on a day to suit yourself, riding with your own mates instead of 9000 other riders staying in nice hotels instead of the cheap ones the operators use, at half the price, and then they stop you riding the last mountain because you got there to late, is it me
It makes me cross when people with 2mates" assume everyone else has. :evil: .These organised tours and mass participation events are great for those of us who don't have friends, Though the other people on the tour can get annoying at times
Sportives and tours, 100% for charity, http://www.tearfundcycling.btck.co.uk0 -
Though the other people on the tour can get annoying at times
You've met the famous John Airey as well, then? 0 -
I do think the AOS (who took over the Etape) have been milking it ove rthe last few years - esp now you can only enter via one of it's 'money grabbers' - oh sorry partners.
£100+ for enrty is a bl**dy rip-off. It suprises me why no-one's taken ASO to the Europen courts for profiteering !0 -
That's a bit harsh on ASO - as owners of the TdF they invented the etape rather than taking it over. The etape is expensive when you factor in travel, accomodation etc but my personal view is you can't beat it for atmosphere and really feeling like you are riding a stage of the Tour (albeit at half speed).
If you don't want to pay the entry fees for the etape then do one of the hundreds of other sportives in the UK or Europe but I think the arguments around just doing the same route at your own pace without paying entry fees apply all the more for these other events - you can often find yourself riding alone or in very small groups on many sportives whereas that is rarely the case on l'etape.0 -
How can some justify charging £100 for entry ? It's sheer profiteering.
La MArmotte and othe european soprtives are just as good as the Etape for a 1/4 of the cost (30 euros this I think).
You're not an ASO shreholder are you ?0 -
It is expensive for those not living in France and that is presumably because the job has been given to the tour operators. If you live in France then the cost is not much more than for other sportives mentioned.
Even though I begrudge paying extra I have done it 3 times now because it is easily the best experience I have had on a bike. I have done many sportives and audaxes all of which I have enjoyed but riding a stage of the tour on closed roads with so many others is just very special. This year in particular after seeing Wiggo perform so heroically on the same mountain I climbed. I am already looking forward to next year!0 -
But how can the tour operators charge £100+ simply for entry ? It's a rip-off.
I've done the Etape (in '98) before it became really popular (there were only 5,000 that year) and it's not really that different to other big European sportives like the Marmotte which are just as enjoyable (er apart from the pain !) but much less to enter - even for Brits.0 -
It's called supply and demand. There are enough of us wanting to do the Etape so the prices will stay high. If you don't want to pay those prices, don't do it.0
-
ASO charge the operators €125 = £110. Operator charges - say - £140; VAT = £21.50. Credit card charge = £3. Postage and other bits and pieces, say £1.
Profit to cover all manner of bu66ering around chasing doctor's forms etc = £4.50 = 3%
The operators have no obligation to sell places entry only. In commercial terms the operators make effectively zero on entry only, so instead of slagging them off (for entry only prices at least), you should be thanking them for giving up potentially profitable package places so that a few Brits can go the entry only route.Bulbous also tapered0 -
It's called supply and demand
Yes I know I did economics (many years ago now)
But not for the past couple of years - tour operators in the UK have had places available right up to the event - partly I suspect because of the high prices.0 -
ASO charge those in France about €50 I think.
Isn't it illegal under EU rules to discriminate between Europeans these days, to allow French riders one entry fee and then to make British, Dutch or German riders pay another price?
Still, what price can you put on being able to ride fully closed roads? Being able to take an Alpine descent at full speed is, for me, worth socking away £3 a week for the entry-only fee. You only have to look at this forum to see the excitement and anticipation the event creates, people will be posting on here throughout the winter.
But if you enjoy the Etape, look at many other events in France and Italy which can be just as much fun but perhaps run with a bit more character, the Etape is slick but it's a bit too corporate for me at times, too business-like.0 -
you should be thanking them for giving up potentially profitable package places so that a few Brits can go the entry only route
So the operators are giving these places away for free ? DOn't make me laugh ! Ho ! Ho ! Ho !0 -
I cant figure out why people get so emotive in criticising the Etape and the cost of it.
Having just completed my first, I have to say I was completely gobsmacked by the whole experience. The closed roads make a huge difference and I agree with Kleber, the thrill of descending knowing you have the full road to play with was fantastic. With the crowds and all the support and the fact that the big boys were doing it a few days later, it was as near to doing the TDF as I will ever get.
I presume all of the begrudgers have done an Etape. If they have fine, they have the ultimate vote, just don't do it again. I have done a lot of UK sportives this year, haven't done any European, I'm sure they are great in their own way. The Etape will always have its attraction and until the numbers start dropping dramatically it will always be expensive.
Cant wait for my next one!0 -
haven't done any European
I think that's the thing, there are some other events in Europe that are as good as the Etape (closed roads, better foodstops (!) famous climbs etc etc) that aren't so much of a hassle to enter and get to/from, as well as usually being less pricey. But a lot of US/UK people don't know about them -- which isn't necessarily a bad thing.... let them continue fighting to get into the Etape at all costs.0 -
The difference between UK and European sportives is massive. A sportive in Britain just wouldn't even be classified as a sportive in France or a Gran Fondo in Italy. That's a whole new debate though but worth bearing in mind, for if you've enjoyed a UK sportive, take things to a whole new level by going to the Alps/Dolomites/Pyrenees, it's not just the terrain that is different, the organisation, quality of riding, large bunches, closed roads and more make most European events very different.Road Red wrote:I have done a lot of UK sportives this year, haven't done any European, I'm sure they are great in their own way.0 -
Is there a directory or listing of European events?0
-
itisaboutthebike wrote:you should be thanking them for giving up potentially profitable package places so that a few Brits can go the entry only route
So the operators are giving these places away for free ? DOn't make me laugh ! Ho ! Ho ! Ho !
Read the post. Not for free, but for practically no profit, when they could be selling more packages for big bucks. Admittedly Baxters tie some of these entry onlies to training weekends, but the other operators AFAIK do not.Bulbous also tapered0 -
itisaboutthebike wrote:But how can the tour operators charge £100+ simply for entry ? It's a rip-off.
Because ASO take most of that,leaving the operators about £20.
There was some guy from one of the tour companies who posted in one of the forums quite a detailed breakdown of the costs and once you deduct ASO's "commission" plus admin expenses (postage costs, chasing up people who forget to sign forms or get a doctor's note etc) there's not much profit in the entry-only deals -- probably why Baxters want to tie a training weekend to them.0 -
Road Red wrote:Is there a directory or listing of European events?
There is a slective list at http://www.cyclosport.org/events2009.aspx -- just filter the search to the country of your choice.
A more comprehensive list of French ones is at http://www.velo101.com/cyclosport/calendrier.asp
There is another calendrier cyclosport at http://www.velovelo.com/
Italian... well there is the magazine CicloTurismo which every month lists dozens of gran and medio fondos (alongs with gradient profiles) but I don't think they have a web presence other than the publisher's general site, though this does have a small directory of the magazine's "Prestige" series of events -- a sort of season long league -- which are basically some of Italy's top gran fondo events: http://www.compagniaeditoriale.it/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=100&Itemid=640
