Clicking Ultegra Hollowtech Compact Crankset

ccarty85

Hi,

Can anyone help to diagnose a click every pedal rev at about 2 O'clock position on either crank . If I undo the left crank, loosen it off & refix, then the click disappears for 100 miles or so. I'm using a Hope BB, although it also happened with a Shimano one. The BB has been refaced. I've tried another Ultegra chainset & had the same problem. Anyone got any ideas?

Many Thanks

Wappygixer

Have you tried to grease the splines?

ccarty85

Yup,
Have taken cranks off & BB cups, cleaned meticulously, loads of grease, put back together & everything OK for 100 miles, then the dreaded click again.
Should have said it happens at 2 o'clock on chainring side & 10 o'clock on other.
Have also done all the other usual bits, pedals,seatpost, saddle, cables etc. but as I can get rid of the noise temporarily by fiddling with the cranks, I'm assuming that's where the problem is.

Wappygixer

Chain ring bolts? Try greasing them.
Does it happen on both chain rings?

beausabreur

I had the same problem with the XT hollow cup bearings on my mountain bike. It might be an issue with the bearing pre load cap.

I did everything you did without any lasting success so I bought an Acros ceramic bottom bracket. The Acros unit has an Allen bolt to preload the bearings rather than the fiddly Shimano thing. It is easier to get that to the right tension (which is really only a bit more than finger tight) than the Shimano unit. I am very pleased with it as it doesn't make the clicking noise of the XT unit and (IMO) it is smoother to pedal.

ccarty85

Thanks for the replies so far,
I had all the chainring bolts apart & greased but as the issue is definitely the crank /BB interface it didn't make any difference. I chose the Hope BB thinking it would get rid of the click.
How does the Acros unit preload work? Where did you get it from & can I ask how much?
Also if I apply a bit more preload to the Hope BB will I knacker its bearings? I've spoken to Hope & they say to use minimal preload, whatever that is!!
Any more tips, anyone?

Stellite

I seem to hve a thing about pedals on the forum ha ha

Are you sure its not a pedal making the click? Could you use another set to see if the noise goes away?

I had clicking a while back and thee underside of my pedals had worked loose causing a click

ride_whenever

hmm, are you using a torque wrench for the pinch bolts? They really need to be pretty evenly tight.

Also, stand on the cranks left foot forwards, then spin the cranks backwards and try right foot forwards, is there a little clunk when you shift the weight from one side of the splines to the other?

ccarty85

Hi again,
Bit of an update.
It's not the pedals. I've tried different ones & get the same click.
An easy way to replicate the click is to take the chain off, get on the bike (leaning against a wall), both feet on the pedals, start with right foot forward & press on the pedal....click.
Then back pedal so that left foot forward & press on the pedal... click. Taking the chain off means you hear the click more easily & also eliminates noises in the cassette, rear wheel etc.
What do I try next? Apart from an Acros BB which will set me back £70.

damptw

Hi,

I have exactly the same problem with a Tiagra chainset, can fix it by loosening and retightening the pinch bolts, but the click just comes back after one ride.

Ride_whenever, i am considering buying a torque wrench to get both bolts to exactly the same tension, have you experience of this fixing the problem?

ccarty85

Hi,
Wouldn't bother buying a torque wrench. I used one for the 2 pinch bolts & the click still returned. I reckon you can do up the bolts by feel & get pretty much the same torque.

hazychris

I had similar - took the bearings off cleaned it all up, and used threadlock instead of grease on the BB threads (they were coming very slightly loose and therefore introduced a little "play".

All been fine since.

Cheers,
Chris

balfa_man

I have come across this on some road chainsets but its only normally Dura-ace or also XTR MTB cranks.

Basically the arms are a different thickness on Dura-ace & XTR so you can get a small ammount of play. I know you arent using either of the above cranks but what does your BB shell measure? Exactly 68mm or 1mm less?

It can be where the axle preload cap bottoms out against the end of the axle before everything has been nipped up tight. This happens if a) you have XTR/Dura-ace or b) the BB shell is undersized slightly in its diameter. Essentially you get the crank axle wandering backwards & forwards through the bearings - this is more likely on say a Hope that relies on tolerances & doesnt use a bush.

Acros know that this is a potential issue & supply axle washers with all their BB's to allow for that little bit of over facing or for different crank diameters as not all Shimano/Raceface/FSA etc are exactly the same.

The problem could be escalated by you using the Hope BB. Its a good BB but the direct fit of an alloy axle on a stainless bearing race is a remedy for disaster.
a) if you get a sticky/seized bearing on a ride & dont realise it can total the axle
b) some axles are very slightly undersized (oversized if its Raceface/FSA) & unless you have a bush of some sort, you cannot guarantee its 100% tight
c) over time, if not serviced/removed regulary the axle can bond to the bearing
d) metal on metal with the smallest ammount of dirt will creak like hell (a la sq taper) but not when you use a plastic bush to separate the two

Just my two pennies worth.

J

ride_whenever

hang on, your click with left then right foot forward means it is knackered.

Basically they've been ridden too loose, and the splines are going. You can try adding a little more preload and increasing the torque on the pinch bolts.

balfa_man

It could also mean that the bearings are not correctly preloaded & the inner race of the bearing can rock the smallest ammount causing a click.

J

Simon Notley

I have experienced exactly the same thing with this BB and other similar designs. In my experience, the noice is caused by dirt working it's way into the threads. All you need to do to fix it is remove the BB, clean the threads (paying particular attention to the frame as the dirt tends to hide in there) and put the BB back in with a bit of grease. This has always cured the clicking for me.

I further tip to get it extra clean is to keep screwing and unscrewing the BB (making sure it's well greased) as you put it back in. This helps work the grease into the threads and dislodge and remaining dirt.

ccarty85

Thanks for all of your replies although it seems that the plot is thickening.It seems that the amount of pre-load is quite critical, too little & the crank spindle moves slightly from side to side, too much & the bearing ia knackered & both may produce the clicking. Any tips for how to do the pre-load? The video on the Hope website seems to suggest none at all although I realise that their sleeve is not compressible like Shimano's plastic one. Also, would there be any merit in using the Shimano sleeve with the Hope bearing cups?
Waiting with interest for your thoughts.

John.T

The sleeve is only to keep any water that enters the frame away from the bearings. It has no affect on pre-load whatever. I don't know if the Hope BB differs greatly from the Shimano one but to set the Shimano you really need the correct tool. It only costs about £2. With this it is easy to set pre-load. Just use it to give the cap a slight nip with just fingers and thumb. Then tighten the clamp bolts to the correct torque (or in my case till I think they are at the right torque).

damptw

Hi,

I dont know about the case with the OP, but with my chainset it is definately the interface between the axle and the left hand crank. I have removed them from the bike and reassembled, then bracing the axle on a piece of wood, pressing down on the pedals.. click.. turn through 180 degrees.. press on pedals.. click again. and ive also tried it with the pedals removed, same result.
Its been like that more or less from new, i just put up with it now.

ccarty85

I'm starting to agree that it is the interface between the crank & axle rather than a preload of the bearing issue. Out of interest the campag ultra torque design appears a safer bet as the bearing is a tight fit on the axle & a 'loose' fit in the cup which is the opposite way round to the shimano layout. Still doesn't solve my problem though!

ccarty85

Just a bit of an update. I thought there may have been a problem with the threaded bb shell parting company with the surrounding carbon fibre. So, put the Hollowtech bb & ultegra cranks on the winter bike & after 20 miles, click, click. I suppose this is good news really as it means my best bike isn't knacked.
I tend to agree that it's a case of the chainset spindle being too loose a fit in the bb bearlngs & so makes the clicking sound. This is louder in the oversized tubing of the carbon frame as opposed to the much smaller tubes of the steel winter frame. However I'm guessing that either I'm being very fussy or everyone else just puts up with the noise. Must point out that this is the 3rd chainset & each lasts for about 600 miles before the tolerance of spindle to bearing increases & the clicking begins.
As for a quiet replacement I'm assuming that the Campag/Fulcrum system is different enough & better engineered so as not to give rise to the tolerance issue.
Anyone got any thoughts on this?

John.T

It could be the Hope BB causing to noise. Shimano ones have a plastic sleeve in the bearing which is quite a tight fit on the shaft. I believe the Hope ones are metal to metal. I suggest you try a Shimano BB before you ditch everything. I got a Tiagra one for £7 from CRCs flood sale. They are only £13 there anyway.

altohorn

Many interesting solutions to a problem I have with both of my bikes. My click is at the top of the left foot and if I peddle with only my right foot there is no click. Today I went for a ride in some steep wooded hills in a heavy rain with raging torrents crossing the pavement. The seconding torrent was deeper than I thought and so submerged my bottom bracket and both feet. And afterwards, no click for the rest of the ride. We'll see tomorrow.

Rightarmbad

For those that do not use a torque wrench on Shimano cranks, there is a special note on the Shimano website re this.
When the two bolts are not the same tension, the arm is not square on the axle and tends to rock it's way undone.
I have seen cranks newly fitted fall off the bike two weeks later when simply done up by feel.

When left in this condition, even if it doesn't loosen or walk enough to cause disaster, it can deform the arm and lead to the left arm creaking as per the OP.

So continue on with your calibrated hand at your own peril.

hulla the hulla

I have a similar issue but with a 105 crank but on the RHS. Taken apart and found that the spindle is loose in the RHS arm. Can't work out how to remove, if indeed it can be removed ? Anyone know ? Otherwise it's new crankset time...

keef66

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19722655#p19722655]hulla the hulla[/url] wrote:

I have a similar issue but with a 105 crank but on the RHS. Taken apart and found that the spindle is loose in the RHS arm. Can't work out how to remove, if indeed it can be removed ? Anyone know ? Otherwise it's new crankset time...

Factory press-fit I'm afraid; not designed to come apart / be replaceable. You could try dribbling some epoxy type adhesive in there and curing it somewhere warm to see if you can extend it's life, but the simplest / quickest / easiest fix is a new crankset I'm afraid.

Would you be interested in a used Tiagra 4500 53/39? Only I have one in my spares bin and I'm unlikely ever to need it again...

mamba80

i use shimano BB and cranks, from Tiagra to XT/DA also inc a BB91 bb in a carbon mtb, fitted across 6 bikes currently, and probably in about 12 bikes over the last few years and never exp what you are getting.
I ve not had to face any BB shell, to me shimano BB's are just fit and forget.

i do up the BB cups with a shimano BB spanner as i tight as i can get them, using this tool only, light coating of grease on crank spindle, min preload - light finger tight only, make sure the DS crank is fully pressed home into the bb before doing the preload, tighten the 5mm crank arm bolts 1/4 turn alternate until 14nm each Do not do up one bolt then the other!!!!

hulla the hulla

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19723169#p19723169]keef66[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19722655#p19722655]hulla the hulla[/url] wrote:

I have a similar issue but with a 105 crank but on the RHS. Taken apart and found that the spindle is loose in the RHS arm. Can't work out how to remove, if indeed it can be removed ? Anyone know ? Otherwise it's new crankset time...

Factory press-fit I'm afraid; not designed to come apart / be replaceable. You could try dribbling some epoxy type adhesive in there and curing it somewhere warm to see if you can extend it's life, but the simplest / quickest / easiest fix is a new crankset I'm afraid.

Would you be interested in a used Tiagra 4500 53/39? Only I have one in my spares bin and I'm unlikely ever to need it again...

Balls ! Oh well, kinda figured that would be the case. Thanks for confirming and thanks for the offer of the 4500 but I'm gonna pass and use this as an opportunity to upgrade.

rrsodl

I used to have this problem.

Remove the BB cups and clean off all grease from cups and BB shell.

Get some http://www.screwfix.com/p/ptfe-tape-each/76841

Apply to the BB cups. Maybe 3 to 5 layers.