My own Helmet research petition

downfader

Mostly set up in response to the many ignorant petitions online and calls for Helmet Legislation. I don't expect much to be done from it obviously but if it does influence anyone so much the better.

I wont be offended if you disagree with my ideas but i do think it would bring a lot of clarification.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/cyclehelmettest/

Jeremy Parker

downfader wrote:

Mostly set up in response to the many ignorant petitions online and calls for Helmet Legislation. I don't expect much to be done from it obviously but if it does influence anyone so much the better.

I wont be offended if you disagree with my ideas but i do think it would bring a lot of clarification.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/cyclehelmettest/

The research has long since been done. Teams of researchers all over the world have been producing papers for about thirty years. I'm surprised that you have missed seeing them - You could google.

As for clarification - look where we are after 30 years of research

Jeremy Parker

downfader

Jeremy Parker wrote:

downfader wrote:

Mostly set up in response to the many ignorant petitions online and calls for Helmet Legislation. I don't expect much to be done from it obviously but if it does influence anyone so much the better.

I wont be offended if you disagree with my ideas but i do think it would bring a lot of clarification.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/cyclehelmettest/

The research has long since been done. Teams of researchers all over the world have been producing papers for about thirty years. I'm surprised that you have missed seeing them - You could google.

As for clarification - look where we are after 30 years of research

Jeremy Parker

The helmets of 30 years ago differ from the helmets of today. Many of the materials used have altered, including carbon fibre and a range of plastics. The helmet I first used had no plastic shell - it was simply a polystyrene lump and some strapping.

Also much of the helmet research has been disproved, misquoted (even by the press) and misused. Much of it is also based on anecdotes of doctors who neither have the time or energy to record their findings properly.

TBH I posted the petition in response to all the cack people have put up about them on the no10 site and elsewhere. It seems I'm damned for asking for clarification, damned for this, and that and the next excuse people can think of. :?

It seems people will happily argue until their blue in the face about helmets but wont ask their government to conduct a proper study on the physical propeties before they bring yet ANOTHER law (regardless of cost).

If people dont want to sign it fair enough.

eternal_headwind

Nope. I think yu are being a little too idealistic. Any research conducted will have two outcomes.
1. A small number of civil servants will be on the gravy trainfor a year or two whilst they 'manage' the project
2. We will have another piece of worthless research that reflects the prejudices of the those mentioned in pont 1

I wear a helmet, but I don't want want a police armed response unit chasing me if i leave it at home accidentally (twice in 7 years of commuting)

Even if you did commission new resarch with these helmets constructed from new materials, they may show a noticeable improvement in 'skid on a slippery road / hit pothole' accidents. I assume you are not suggesting that there woud be an improvement in the outcome of 'speeding articulated lorry' accidents involving cyclists.

Whilst the picture is fuzzy, the advantage is ours.

brainsys

I don't wear a helmet. I insisted my kids did. I am also a statistician. I'm not very pointy.

Frankly I don't pretend to know the answer to this debate. But I don't believe anybody else really knows either. It is very murky and the apparent avoidance of completely independent research on the issue is troubling. All I want to know is what is the safest option. Until then any legislation is premature and I should be free to choose - even if it is ultimately wrong.

You may have gathered that my issue is not with helmets themselves. Clearly any helmet will give you some head protection in an accident. The real issue is what is the likelihood of this type of accident and does the wearing of a helmet increase it?

The answer for kids is, I believe, clear. The majority of their accidents are self-inflicted with a high percentage of 'over the handlebars' incidents. That's why I feel kids should wear them. With adults the situation is different. The majority of collisions are the result of another party. They tend to result in crushing incidents in which helmets can be of no help. And there is worrying if not completely proved evidence that wearing 'protective wear' puts you at higher risk.

There are other factors. We believe cycling is a better option than motoring. Legislating that people need to be geared up before taking to two wheels is a deterrent. Cycling without a helmet is also more exhilarating (= fun)

frazerbrown

How do you expect your children to wear a cycle helmet when you don't wear one yourself brainsys?
I agree that in some accidents a helmet would not give very much protection, if any, but having been knocked off my bike twice already this year by motorists and crashing once at high speed(56mph) due to a blow out I am personally convinced that helmets save lives, if only my own!
I'm intrigued to know why you think cycling is more exhilarating without a helmet?

pompeypoppy

I wear a helmet, and thank god after being slammed into the tarmac by a 4x4. Helmet took the full force and was crumpled, but my head wasn't even bruised.

Wearing a helmet does not endanger the cyclist any more when crashing etc.

Porgy

frazerbrown wrote:

How do you expect your children to wear a cycle helmet when you don't wear one yourself brainsys?

The answer to that is they do as their told till they're old enough to get their own home and pay their own bills.

My daughter is not allowed to drink alcohol or take drugs, but I can.
My daughter is not allowed to stay up till 3 in the morning surfing thew net or watching vilent movies - but I do.
My daughter is not allowed to fake illness to get off going to school - but I have been known to take the occasional "sickie"
My daughter was not allowed to touch the cooker until I thought she was old enough not to hurt herself.
My daughter is not allowed to drive
My daughter is not allowed to stay out late without telling me where she is.

etc. etc.

different rules for children - she has a still developing skull, her co-ordination is not yet to the level of an adult and she is under my roof. I do ot have to set an example for everything - when she's my age she can do what she likes too.

downfader

Porgy wrote:

frazerbrown wrote:

How do you expect your children to wear a cycle helmet when you don't wear one yourself brainsys?

The answer to that is they do as their told till they're old enough to get their own home and pay their own bills.

My daughter is not allowed to drink alcohol or take drugs, but I can.
My daughter is not allowed to stay up till 3 in the morning surfing thew net or watching vilent movies - but I do.
My daughter is not allowed to fake illness to get off going to school - but I have been known to take the occasional "sickie"
My daughter was not allowed to touch the cooker until I thought she was old enough not to hurt herself.
My daughter is not allowed to drive
My daughter is not allowed to stay out late without telling me where she is.

etc. etc.

different rules for children - she has a still developing skull, her co-ordination is not yet to the level of an adult and she is under my roof. I do ot have to set an example for everything - when she's my age she can do what she likes too.

Well said!

brainsys

Why more fun without helmet?

1) Feeling of air rushing through air
2) No constriction under the neck
3) Lose heat more efficiently in summer
4) Less inertia when moving head
5) One less thing to carry off bike (bar bag in one hand and rack bag in the other .... )

YMMV

Re counter arguements - anecdotes are not proof and do not address the issue of whether wearing a helmet increases your risk of being hit. That's the crucial question. Some studies suggest this but AFAIK nothing conclusive.

I'm not advocating the wearing (or not) of helmets - only the freedom to choose, except for children and then only at their parent's discretion.

BTW I also ride a motorbike and would always wear a helmet even if it wasn't the law. The risks are quite different and all of the virtues above wouldn't outweigh them.

Porgy

I'm sure I saw a statistic once that showed that you're more liekly to suffer a head injury as a passenger in a car or working in the kitchen than riding a bike.

Now I always wear a helmet when I make a cup of tea.

downfader

Porgy wrote:

I'm sure I saw a statistic once that showed that you're more liekly to suffer a head injury as a passenger in a car or working in the kitchen than riding a bike.

Now I always wear a helmet when I make a cup of tea.

Haha!

Oddly enough, when I used to fill and maintain the vending machines in the local A&E I saw a lot of people with head injuries from their car. They seemed to blurt it out like some kind of embarrased confession. Personally I couldnt have cared less at the time.

shouldbeinbed

For my part I do wear a helmet because I choose to believe that will spread the impact before it reaches my head and brain and prefer the safety effect in keeping an extra layer of something between me and the road in much the same way as I prefer to wear more layers and long sleeves/trousers in winter because I choose to beleive it keeps me warmer by putting an extra layer of clothes between me and the cold.

my biggest, and most embarassing, accident was barrelling into the back of a car at full tilt. Not entirely my fault, the car had done an emergency stop because some numpty had ignored the give way ahead of her and took her bit of road just as I was checking backwards ready for a right turn, I looked frontwards again with no time at all to do anything but hit her full on go for a little fly and slide in the road

I had a night in hospital and a week off work with a big concussion, my bike was pretty well stuffed and I hit the top edge of the back of her car with my head. When I took my helmet off it fell neatly into three pieces only held together by the plastic veneer with lots of cracks in the styrene radiating out from a bloody big dent in it. It would have been my head taking that direct splitting impact otherwise.

I'm know that helmets won't make a scrap of difference in certain types of accident but you can't predict what sort of accident you'll have I''d rather do overkill on the safety than roll the dice on whether I die or end up a dribbling vegetable for the want of 75 quid and a sweaty head.

Building sites have compulsory hard hat regulations for even lower speed skull vs harder object accidents than we suffer and the construction industry hasn't collapsed and youngsters havent stopped becomming builders because of the requirement to wear a helmet.

Porgy

shouldbeinbed wrote:

Building sites have compulsory hard hat regulations for even lower speed skull vs harder object accidents than we suffer and the construction industry hasn't collapsed and youngsters havent stopped becomming builders because of the requirement to wear a helmet.

That's a stupid comparison - I don't know whether to or :roll:

downfader

I suppose I should also add that building sites are reguarly checked either by employees or H&S for H&S reasons.. so there is less risk of things impacting the head. The sites I have seen they teather anything heavy or unstable up on the scaffold too.

A building site helmet might be designed more for nuts and bolts, nails and small fittings a guy could drop. I think the building trade still has a pretty high accident rate and the lowest number of dedicated H&S inspectors

plowmar

Whilst everyone must make up their own mind to me it is a no brainer.

I always wear a helmet on my road bike but never on the MTB when on the road.

There pick the bones out of that.

But it would be good to have some quotable research re head protection to stop the judges halving or more claims for accidents involving injury to other parts of the body.