Green Jersey: What Could Have Been?
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Yes. The better man clearly won it.0
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Technicaly Cav would have won but wouldn't Hushovd of gone for more intermediate sprints etc.
Thor showed he was a class spriter with the solo break in the mountains something cav could NEVER do!0 -
It's hard to say. On one hand Cavendish would have 13 more points and it's likely that Columbia would have chased down Hushovd's mountain escapade. On the other hand Cervelo may have set a more brutal pace on the climb at the end of stage of 19 to eliminate Cavendish.
I reckon Cavendish would just about have won, but it would definitely have gone right down to the line with only a handful of points between them.Twitter: @RichN950 -
GreenJersey wrote:Technicaly Cav would have won but wouldn't Hushovd of gone for more intermediate sprints etc.
Thor showed he was a class spriter with the solo break in the mountains something cav could NEVER do!
I guess that's right.
I was just wondering if the outcome would have been different, assuming everything else had played out the same way. Presumably, there is some Star Trek style parallel universe, where that actually happened ...0 -
The best man won, as Thor showed, the green jersey is the points competition, not the sprinters jersey.
His lone break to gather up the points in the mountains required a lot of guts and really stamped his mark upon the jersey.0 -
Cav has to leave himself some targets to aim for . How would you ever top winning 6 stages including Paris and also winning the green jersey ?
The UCI are Clowns and Fools0 -
JLM74 wrote:GreenJersey wrote:Technicaly Cav would have won but wouldn't Hushovd of gone for more intermediate sprints etc.
Thor showed he was a class spriter with the solo break in the mountains something cav could NEVER do!
I guess that's right.
I was just wondering if the outcome would have been different, assuming everything else had played out the same way. Presumably, there is some Star Trek style parallel universe, where that actually happened ...
In that case Cav would have won by 4 points.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Pure hypothetical question.
There are just many variables and factors that need to be considered:
- Would Thor had gone looking for points in a mountain stage?
- Thor stated that he first concern on the Champs-Elysees was make sure he didn't crash and get no points. He needed to get 11 or more to win. If he only lead by 10 points heading onto the final straight, he would've had to contest the sprint.
etc, etc, etc.0 -
McEwen had a similar incident several years back (the "headbutt" on O'Grady deemed naughty by the race officials), which I think ironically benefitted Hushovd as well. but I might be wrong on that. McEwen would be classed slightly differently since he is/was a proven green jersey contender.0
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the right guy won it this year and cav will win it soon...probably next year"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
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I think Cav would have won. It cost him 14 points and he only lost by 10 in the end. Hard to see what other intermediates Thor could have gone for, he was picking up points on mountain stages for chrissakes. And if Cervelo could have dropped Cav on stage 19 then they would have. Cav will get stronger on the intermediate stages though and as posted above, it gives him something to aim for and keeps him humble so not all bad.0
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Interesting I think last night boardman commented that the Polka dot jersey should be weighted so that there are more points for stage wins on mountain tops therefore making the person who wants to win it truely the best climber by going all out for the whole stage victory not just intermediate climbs, not saying pellozotti didn't deserve it this year. He also hinted that he felt green jersey should be weighted the same towards stage wins rather than someone who can't win the stages grabbing the points in the intermediates.
He seemed to suggest although its points everyone feels it is a sprinters competition (even the sponsor of it a horse racing betting firm presents it as speed and racing) and the best sprinter should win it. Obviously his opinion and I have to admit for me while I admire the way thor has done it there is a guy who found it very hard to win any of the bunch sprints taking away the green jersey.0 -
thamacdaddy wrote:Interesting I think last night boardman commented that the Polka dot jersey should be weighted so that there are more points for stage wins on mountain tops therefore making the person who wants to win it truely the best climber by going all out for the whole stage victory not just intermediate climbs, not saying pellozotti didn't deserve it this year. He also hinted that he felt green jersey should be weighted the same towards stage wins rather than someone who can't win the stages grabbing the points in the intermediates.
He seemed to suggest although its points everyone feels it is a sprinters competition (even the sponsor of it a horse racing betting firm presents it as speed and racing) and the best sprinter should win it. Obviously his opinion and I have to admit for me while I admire the way thor has done it there is a guy who found it very hard to win any of the bunch sprints taking away the green jersey.
Boardman i feel wouldn't have said this about the green jersey if a brit had won so it's not that fair a quote0 -
I suspect that the subtle changes in Cav's physiology over the coming years which may well make him the next green jersey holder will come at a cost of fewer stage wins.MatHammond wrote:I think Cav would have won. It cost him 14 points and he only lost by 10 in the end. Hard to see what other intermediates Thor could have gone for, he was picking up points on mountain stages for chrissakes. And if Cervelo could have dropped Cav on stage 19 then they would have. Cav will get stronger on the intermediate stages though and as posted above, it gives him something to aim for and keeps him humble so not all bad.
But he was very close to having his cake and eating it.0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:McEwen had a similar incident several years back (the "headbutt" on O'Grady deemed naughty by the race officials), which I think ironically benefitted Hushovd as well. but I might be wrong on that. McEwen would be classed slightly differently since he is/was a proven green jersey contender.
And I also believe in the year of McEwen's third Green Jersey win (2006), Hushovd was relegated in a sprint too.
He gave up trying to win the jersey; instead focussing on stage wins. That's where he netted his Champs-Élysées victory.0 -
thamacdaddy wrote:I have to admit for me while I admire the way thor has done it there is a guy who found it very hard to win any of the bunch sprints taking away the green jersey.
Apart from the bunch sprint that he did - in fact - win? On a properly uphill finish. And the numerous finishes right in/alongside Cav's wheel? None of which fit the definition of someone finding it "very hard" to be competitive.
Maybe this, maybe that, etc etc but Thor thoroughly "humiliated" Cav (his own words) by his solo attack following the stained comment. That single stage highlighted the all-round toughness required to be a rightful owner of the Green Jersey IMO
Mathammond pitched it about right above, I reckon - Cav will come back both mentally and physically tougher next year (barring injuries in the mean time) and will be very difficult to beat overall let alone in a straight line. jeez I hope so, that would be lush0 -
Don't you think the green jersey would be a little boring if you could win it all the time just by doing well in the sprints at the end. I know Cav nearly won it with this tactic but that's because he won 6 stages. This is hardly normal.
It's the consistency bit that makes it worthwhile in my view. When you're watching several hours of a tour stage, it's better to see stuff being competed for throughout the stage.
If the green and polka dot jerseys were solely battled for at the finish line (which is what would happen if you weighted all the points to the end of stages) then it would be pretty dull.
We've already got something to watch at the end of the stage.Scottish and British...and a bit French0 -
GreenJersey wrote:Technicaly Cav would have won but wouldn't Hushovd of gone for more intermediate sprints etc.
Thor showed he was a class spriter with the solo break in the mountains something cav could NEVER do!
Never? Why never? Cav won a stage with a decent climb in it.
Cav is hardly the biggest sprinter and is much smaller and lighter than Thor so why could he "never" do wht Thor did on a break.
Remember that Cav was in a team that was at his total disposal as there was no GC contender in the team so a lot of pressure was on him to win which he did 6 times.
He did not target any intermiediate sprints really.
If they had a GC contender then maybe he would go for it properly.
Cav will get stronger and will be able to climb better for sure so will be able to hunt intermediate sprints in the future.
Some will say he may not win so many sprints if they have a GC contendor to look after but in my view, he is so far ahead of the pther sprinters he would win at least 50% of them anyway.0 -
oldwelshman wrote:Some will say he may not win so many sprints if they have a GC contendor to look after but in my view, he is so far ahead of the pther sprinters he would win at least 50% of them anyway.
I think without his lead out train he would win fewer sprints, but I agree with you, he would still win sprints. Those who think it's entirely down to his train, imagine this:
Thor and Cav swap teams. 200m from the line Thor is tucked up behind Mark Renshaw and Cav's sat on Thor's wheel. Who would you expect to win?
My money would probably still be on Cav 9 times out of 10.0 -
The thing the HTC train does is take the sting out of the legs of many sprinters duruing the last 3 to 5k, so theres only a few who can compete with Cav at the end.
Cav is very strong and his track backround helps.
I do not have his times but I have been told he does a very decent 4k pursuit time, so no wonder he can go so well at end of a stage 0 -
Hushovd is a really amazing sprinter and did extremely well to get that stage win after a mountain climb - which is perhaps a bit unusual for a sprinter. As someone else said it shows a strength that maybe Cav doesn't seem to have at the moment, but he may yet develop some strength in that area. He's so young he's got plenty of time to mature and develop as a tour rider. Initially Cav and team seemed to target stage wins rather than the green jersey and I don't know that it was ever high on their agenda - not until Cav had already worn it anyway. You guys are all missing one very important thing though - who looked the best in green? Well it's got to be our Mark, cutting a dashing figure. Thor looked like the jolly green giant. 0
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Cadence Minge wrote:thamacdaddy wrote:I have to admit for me while I admire the way thor has done it there is a guy who found it very hard to win any of the bunch sprints taking away the green jersey.
Apart from the bunch sprint that he did - in fact - win? On a properly uphill finish. And the numerous finishes right in/alongside Cav's wheel? None of which fit the definition of someone finding it "very hard" to be competitive.
Its a discussion I watched it all like you and I know he won in Barcalona, like I said not saying thor isn't a good competitor but its just a fact he struggled bar one uphill finish to win in the sprints vs Cav.
And I used the word "win" not competitive. It is a fact of the race that a rider who didn't win very many of the bunch sprints took the green jersey on intermediates and in all honesty looking back for that solo ride he deserves it but it is perceived as a sprinters jersey (though we know its for most consistant). To be fair he went out and for the points and worked hard at that and so should come out with something. I couldn't do either win or second in any bunch sprints or take intermediate points so forgive me if I cam across as criticising, guess its too easy.
Just putting out there what one other side of it was around and about. Think most of us would reckon that had cav not been dq'd then thor would have gone for more intermediates anyway especially on the champs.0
