Tour de France Final Stage Question

digitaldave
digitaldave Posts: 114
edited July 2009 in Pro race
I've been watching the ITV4 coverage of this year's TDF, and for some time they have been saying that the final stage in to Paris won't actually count for anything with respect to the final standings... Why is this the case, as surely someone could (potentially) launch an attack and steal a win. Or is it a matter of Tour ettiquette that whoever is in the lead at the end of the penultimate stage is allowed to keep the lead in Paris?

Thanks :).

Comments

  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    In reality it has nothing to do with etiquette and everything to do with the parcours.

    The road is too flat and the speed will be too high. The Paris stage is very prestigious for the sprinters - and their teams won't want to let an attack succeed before the finish.
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    digitaldave wrote:
    I've been watching the ITV4 coverage of this year's TDF, and for some time they have been saying that the final stage in to Paris won't actually count for anything with respect to the final standings... Why is this the case, as surely someone could (potentially) launch an attack and steal a win. Or is it a matter of Tour ettiquette that whoever is in the lead at the end of the penultimate stage is allowed to keep the lead in Paris?

    Thanks :).

    The last stage is a kinda ceremonial gallop into Paris and the yellow jesrsey team lead their man onto the Champs then the attacks start usually ended in a buch sprint. So yea its unusual for any kind of attempt to take back time and it would be frowned upon.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • skut
    skut Posts: 371
    A combination of speed and etiquette, but more of the former, I think.

    The last person to attack and beat the sprinters was Vinokourov in 2005 I think, but that was only a big effort in the last Km, rather than an attack from a long way out. In terms of yellow jersey there will be no change unless there is a crash.
  • digitaldave
    digitaldave Posts: 114
    Thanks :).
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    skut wrote:
    A combination of speed and etiquette, but more of the former, I think.

    The last person to attack and beat the sprinters was Vinokourov in 2005 I think, but that was only a big effort in the last Km, rather than an attack from a long way out. In terms of yellow jersey there will be no change unless there is a crash.
    Yes, Vino nicked 5th place on GC with the time bonus. Thought that was a bit cheeky
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    In the early 1980s (late 70s?) Joop Zoetemelk, second in the GC before the last stage attacked Bernard Hinault, in yellow, in the undulating terrain riding into Paris. Hinault reacted, they rode away from the pack together and all the circuits around the Champs-Elysees, and had a sprint-a-deux for the stage victory! :
    http://www.ina.fr/sport/cyclisme/video/ ... es.fr.html

    It's unusual, and most riders want a break and are tired, but like afx says, it's more the terrain making it almost impossible now than etiquette or being frowned upon.
  • drumon
    drumon Posts: 175
    Yellow might not change, but could Wiggins gain some time on Armstong for 3rd?
  • richa
    richa Posts: 1,632
    Wiggins more likely to lose time in a split bunch (again) and come in 5th.
    Rich
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    RichA wrote:
    Wiggins more likely to lose time in a split bunch (again) and come in 5th.


    Or Frank get a couple of bonus points on an intermediate sprint. Garmin would want to shoot some guys down the road for the day.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • avoidingmyphd
    avoidingmyphd Posts: 1,154
    bonus points won't help Frank! no time bonuses this year.
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    Timoid. wrote:
    RichA wrote:
    Wiggins more likely to lose time in a split bunch (again) and come in 5th.


    Or Frank get a couple of bonus points on an intermediate sprint. Garmin would want to shoot some guys down the road for the day.
    No time bonuses this year or last but, yeah, Wiggo needs to keep an eye on Frank's position in the finale.
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    JonGinge wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    RichA wrote:
    Wiggins more likely to lose time in a split bunch (again) and come in 5th.


    Or Frank get a couple of bonus points on an intermediate sprint. Garmin would want to shoot some guys down the road for the day.
    No time bonuses this year or last but, yeah, Wiggo needs to keep an eye on Frank's position in the finale.


    Ahem, meant seconds. Why no bonus seconds? I thought they always dished them out on intermediate sprints and at the line.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • GroupOfOne MkII
    GroupOfOne MkII Posts: 1,289
    Was thinking earlier about whether they should re-introduce the bonus seconds in the Tour.

    Maybe not for intermediate sprints, and possibly they should also reduce the stage finish ones (e.g 10, 6, 3 rather than the 20, something etc they were). My thinking for this, we've seen a couple of stages (today and to Le Grand Bornand spring to mind), where it might have spiced up the final kilometre, rather than seeing Contador happy to roll across the line third behind the Schlecks etc.

    I suppose like everything, there's pros and cons to the argument.
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    My personal thought on why the bonuses were removed is that they (obviously) change the GC positions, especially in the mountain stages. What happens if a happy recipient of bonus seconds is later found to have doped. A retrospective re-allocation of the GC? Could get politically nasty. In 2006 Landis took bonus seconds as did Rasmussen* in 2007. In 2007 re-allocation of bonuses could potentially have re-ordered the podium (haven't worked this out). In 2008 again the GC was close and a number of bonifications would have gone to dopers. Could have changed the race: as we saw today on Ventoux just a few seconds changes the need to defend to the need to attack.


    * ok, withdrawn rather than found to have doped
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    I hope it's not etiquette. I never took to the PC-type idea that LA and Ullrich waited for each other when either had a defect (and when Ullrich went over a wall).

    I remember Hinault attacking on the last stage, although that might have just been his nature or his (successful) attempt to win on the Champs-Elysees for prestige, rather than it actually altered anything in the GC or Green Jersey competition.

    As well as the Vino attacks mentioned above, I think Delgado also attacked on the last stage the year Roche won in front of Delgado by about 40 secs. But he was brought back.
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    Maybe Frank Schleck will attack Wiggins tomorrow? There's only 3 secs between. Although I don't actually think this will happen, because Hushvod and Cavendish will be looking at the final sprint.
    But Wiggins was fortunate to hold 4th place today - if Frank S. had realised it was within his grasp, he wouldn't have relaxed in the last 100 m.
  • teagar
    teagar Posts: 2,100
    knedlicky wrote:
    Maybe Frank Schleck will attack Wiggins tomorrow? There's only 3 secs between. Although I don't actually think this will happen, because Hushvod and Cavendish will be looking at the final sprint.
    But Wiggins was fortunate to hold 4th place today - if Frank S. had realised it was within his grasp, he wouldn't have relaxed in the last 100 m.

    Garmin have more than enough roulers if a split was ever to happen.
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • avoidingmyphd
    avoidingmyphd Posts: 1,154
    edited July 2009
    knedlicky wrote:
    ...Wiggins was fortunate to hold 4th place today - if Frank S. had realised it was within his grasp, he wouldn't have relaxed in the last 100 m.

    hmm
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,812
    I wouldn't be surprised to see Wiggo sprinting behind Cav today to avoid any potential split
  • k-dog
    k-dog Posts: 1,652
    The interesting thing today is that Bradley Wiggins and some of his Garmin teammates are wearing skinsuits.

    Can't work out what they're up to though - like already said they would never be allowed to escape. Astana would chase them for obvious reasons, Saxobank would probably help and the sprint teams would also be keen to keep everyone together.

    Could be an interesting afternoon though.
    I'm left handed, if that matters.
  • andrew_s
    andrew_s Posts: 2,511
    I'd guess that the skinsuits are because they are planning to battle the Columbia lead out train and get the stage for Farrar
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    k-dog wrote:
    The interesting thing today is that Bradley Wiggins and some of his Garmin teammates are wearing skinsuits.
    When I noticed that, I was hoping they were going to jump in and swim across the Seine after the finish.
  • Le Commentateur
    Le Commentateur Posts: 4,099
    Well Hincapie put their leadout firmly in its place, so maybe it was just a laundry issue after 3 weeks touring.
    Un uomo solo al commando
  • aarw
    aarw Posts: 448
    Didn't Rumsas gain time to claim a podium spot on the tour? Before his car was picked up with enough drugs in it to feed the entire peleton....
  • Le Commentateur
    Le Commentateur Posts: 4,099
    I think he tried but the breakaway was caught.

    His wife was arrested on the morning of the final stage. He'd already got 3rd spot on GC (held since stage 14, Mt Ventoux).

    Perhaps he heard on the run in to Paris that Sunday afternoon that his missus was in jail and decided what the hell, try to grab 2nd.
    Un uomo solo al commando
  • jackhammer111 - banned
    jackhammer111 - banned Posts: 245
    andrew_s wrote:
    I'd guess that the skinsuits are because they are planning to battle the Columbia lead out train and get the stage for Farrar

    big George Hincapie quashed that idea with panache. He took the race back from them going into the last turn. Not after what they did to him were Garmin going to win anything.

    this feud ain't over for a long time to come.
  • SpaceJunk
    SpaceJunk Posts: 1,157
    jackhammer111 wrote:
    andrew_s wrote:
    I'd guess that the skinsuits are because they are planning to battle the Columbia lead out train and get the stage for Farrar

    big George Hincapie quashed that idea with panache. He took the race back from them going into the last turn. Not after what they did to him were Garmin going to win anything.

    this feud ain't over for a long time to come.

    Poor Big George. Maybe if he rode a little bit faster in the breakaway or went with Ivanov he would've been in Yellow.

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