How do we make the UK more bike friendly?

Agent57

biondino wrote:

20mph is TOO SLOW

Not if you get hit at that speed, it's not.

I'd love to see 20mph limits through town and city centres, and other built-up areas; particularly residential ones. On the other hand, they can raise the limit on motorways.

mudcovered

biondino wrote:

If I wasn't a cyclist - and sometimes I'm not - the thought of arbitrary 20mph speed limits would have me fuming. By all means police 30mph more strictly, that's fine, but 20mph is TOO SLOW in all but the narrowest or least visible of roads.

I'd have to agree with this. 20mph is fine for the little housing estate roads where parked cars effectively make the roads single car width. For wider roads in town 30 is perfectly sensible (most of the time). Part of that is because I'm usually doing >20mph on a bike so a car doing that speed would hold me up.

Speed restriction is not the answer. Finding a way to encourage drivers to treat other road users better is what is needed. I was going to say cyclists in the previous sentence but in all honesty there are some drivers who treat all road users with contempt not just cyclists.

Note I live in Bath and the entire city centre is actually 20mph limit. Nobody actually obeys that limit even when the police are around.

Mike

biondino

Porgy wrote:

Off the top of my head -

Any "journalist" writing anti-cycling articles in the press to be charged with incitement.

all councils given mandatory duty and targets to increase cycling in their borough.

All new buidling projects to include facilities for bikes - including supermarkets - minimum 50%.

tax breaks for cyclists

new cycling police force with remit to enforce traffic laws evenly.

all cycle lanes enforced.

all ASLs enforced.

extra element of driving test to test awareness of other road users.

Better facilities for pedestrians with priority - Ped first, cyclists second, all other road users below cyclists - applied within all traffic planning.

government sponsored public facilities for cyclists in major cities.

public information films - Think bicycle! - or something along those lines.

compulsory cycle training in schools. Compulsory for schools I mean, not kids.

more transparency in public vehicles complaints procedures and disciplinaries.

harsher punishments for illegal road users, especially drivers.

Viz zese rules in place ze zousand year Reich will be all-powerful!! Mvahahahahaha!!!

Porgy

biondino wrote:

Porgy wrote:

Off the top of my head -

Any "journalist" writing anti-cycling articles in the press to be charged with incitement.

all councils given mandatory duty and targets to increase cycling in their borough.

All new buidling projects to include facilities for bikes - including supermarkets - minimum 50%.

tax breaks for cyclists

new cycling police force with remit to enforce traffic laws evenly.

all cycle lanes enforced.

all ASLs enforced.

extra element of driving test to test awareness of other road users.

Better facilities for pedestrians with priority - Ped first, cyclists second, all other road users below cyclists - applied within all traffic planning.

government sponsored public facilities for cyclists in major cities.

public information films - Think bicycle! - or something along those lines.

compulsory cycle training in schools. Compulsory for schools I mean, not kids.

more transparency in public vehicles complaints procedures and disciplinaries.

harsher punishments for illegal road users, especially drivers.

Viz zese rules in place ze zousand year Reich will be all-powerful!! Mvahahahahaha!!!

you haven't seen my secret agenda yet. :twisted:

ShaunL

Get rid of all these badly thought out cycle lanes that just finish and get cyclists on the road with the other road users.

downfader

I suppose part of this is from me wondering what I personally can do to encourage cycling. One of the reasons I put up a few vids on youtube.

My own view on 20mph limits is that they're pointless. I can already break the 30 limit in places if I'm not careful (doesnt stop drivers overtaking me - one time I hit 35 without concentrating and this vauxhall flew past me, I was going for a good burn on the legs looks down at the speedo and woosh, past he goes) and 20 would be too easy. I also see it as pointless for car journeys.

Cyclelanes. I'm not exclusively in favour of them. I do see some as a help to us in places (the Itchen Bridge is one I love, despite the bumps, as in the past before it was there drivers would come way too close and cut you up despite the width of the bridge - now they have a straight ahead trajectory). Some are pointless and even dangerous.

I think we do need more traffic police. I rarely see any out and about, maybe one car a day zooming along. I also think all speed cameras should be hidden, and have police take video evidence of bad behaviour now and again - then have the driver on retraining course at their own expense. I dont like the idea of people being banned for minor stuff without being educated on it - the really bad stuff yes.

I too would like to see better facilities for parking near the shops. Perhaps have an access cyclelane up to the parking too so you dont have to dismount. And we need CCTV on the parking area, one of the few places we do actually need CCTV.

I'd like to see firms encourage car-pooling. I see the people drive to the carpark at work for example (some I see set off 3 miles from work and I beat them there) and there is just the driver in a 4x4 or people carrier. Now whats tthe point in that? Waste of space on the roads and lazy at that.

I agree with Porgy on the THINK! Cyclists video. 100% I have even asked for it several times (if you agree then perhaps send them an email outlining your experiences and why you think its a good idea, the more voices the more of a chance they'll make one)

I also agree that many cyclists need to buck their ideas up and behave. For example I was waiting at a junction today and this kid just rode right past me in front of an oncoming car. Driver, scared bejesus, braked and managed not to hit this pillock. I then get stuck behind said kid who is doing 5mph downhill. No problem for me, I'll just wait until its safe and overtake.

Things like that just add to the myth about cyclists. Given the actual danger posed, however, I think the motorvehicle poses more of a risk - the only risk this idiot posed was to himself, and had he been hit I would have stopped and given my details to the driver and spoken to the police.

tjwood

I think there's a lot to be done to improve road safety awareness from the point of view of all road users. Every so often there is a news story about government proposals for some change to road laws (speed limits or whatever) and often organisations like the IAM are contacted by the press - how often are cycling advocacy bodies given a voice?

Incidentally I think the work of the IAM is excellent - and I'm sure that the IAM course I did several years ago has made me a better driver but also now a safer cyclist (it's all about planning and anticipating what other road users might do). They also seem to be starting to get involved in cycle training too. http://www.iam.org.uk/

downfader

tjwood wrote:

I think there's a lot to be done to improve road safety awareness from the point of view of all road users. Every so often there is a news story about government proposals for some change to road laws (speed limits or whatever) and often organisations like the IAM are contacted by the press - how often are cycling advocacy bodies given a voice?

Incidentally I think the work of the IAM is excellent - and I'm sure that the IAM course I did several years ago has made me a better driver but also now a safer cyclist (it's all about planning and anticipating what other road users might do). They also seem to be starting to get involved in cycle training too. http://www.iam.org.uk/

The CTC have been on the BBC several times this year alone.

tjwood

downfader wrote:

The CTC have been on the BBC several times this year alone.

In relation to cycling-specific things or wider "road-user" issues? Maybe I missed the relevant appearances, but it always seems to me that whenever the topic is speed limits or speed cameras or traffic calming or whatever they have someone representing drivers or perhaps motorcyclists but not often any other type of road user.

Which is why I thought it quite interesting that the IAM is starting to get involved in cycling, because there currently isn't really an organisation to advocate the "all road users, all getting along" angle much.

downfader

tjwood wrote:

downfader wrote:

The CTC have been on the BBC several times this year alone.

In relation to cycling-specific things or wider "road-user" issues? Maybe I missed the relevant appearances, but it always seems to me that whenever the topic is speed limits or speed cameras or traffic calming or whatever they have someone representing drivers or perhaps motorcyclists but not often any other type of road user.

Which is why I thought it quite interesting that the IAM is starting to get involved in cycling, because there currently isn't really an organisation to advocate the "all road users, all getting along" angle much.

I agree with you, really. I have said a few times in emails to the AA and RAC that they should encourage cycling, offer insurance on cycling if their insured driver leaves the car at home, etc. If those two big motoring groups embraced us a little more we'd have clearer roads and less potholes imo.

snailracer

rally200 wrote:

Traffic Cops on bikes & a bit of enforcement for arrogant dangerous motorists

(Magnum Force style if poss.)

How about Safe Overtaking Cameras mounted on cop bikes? ie 6ft or £60 fine?

snailracer

DaveR1 wrote:

Less aggressive and selfish cyclists on the road will improve it for other cyclists. Most non cyclist that I talk to think that I'm a fool because so many of the other cyclists that they see are.

Most cyclists, especially those of the "fool" variety, are untrained. Motorists, who are (supposedly) trained, should recognise this and compensate accordingly.

blu3cat

snailracer wrote:

DaveR1 wrote:

Less aggressive and selfish cyclists on the road will improve it for other cyclists. Most non cyclist that I talk to think that I'm a fool because so many of the other cyclists that they see are.

Most cyclists, especially those of the "fool" variety, are untrained. Motorists, who are (supposedly) trained, should recognise this and compensate accordingly.

Does the cycling proficiency test still exist (took mine at junior school)? At least it would give kids an idea of what is expected road behaviour.

Porgy

blu3cat wrote:

snailracer wrote:

DaveR1 wrote:

Less aggressive and selfish cyclists on the road will improve it for other cyclists. Most non cyclist that I talk to think that I'm a fool because so many of the other cyclists that they see are.

Most cyclists, especially those of the "fool" variety, are untrained. Motorists, who are (supposedly) trained, should recognise this and compensate accordingly.

Does the cycling proficiency test still exist (took mine at junior school)? At least it would give kids an idea of what is expected road behaviour.

Someone told me their kid's doing at school - but he said it takes a week now - not just a one-off test anymore. The only thing I can remember from it is riding through the traffic cones. I had the badge for years, wore it until about 2 years ago when it fell apart.

andrewc3142

For seasoned commuters the existing arrangements are probably fine, although a change in assumption of liability as in much of Europe would be very welcome.

The problem is getting more casual and younger cyclists out and about, making cycling the normal mode of town and city transport. In this way the pointless short car journeys for shopping, school run, kids activities, almost all within distances easily cycled by the youngest kids, can be pretty much eliminated. Obvious environmental and health benefits.

This requires proper division of cars and bikes, as in the Netherlands, Belgium, etc and also in other places such as Seattle. Those riding road bikes fairly quickly (which I enjoy) can continue to play with the cars and keep out of the way of the slower cyclists - nothing worse than taking small kids along a canal path or the rare UK cycle track and having lunatics blasting past at 20mph+. Nothing wrong with those speeds at all, just not in that place.

Oh, and all the other good things like training, secure bike parks, storage at rail stations, public hire bikes, etc, etc.

And all road users (including cyclists) chilling out a bit, smiling, enjoying life.

Nick6891

changing driver mentality is the only way if you ask me, i was cycling home the other day and i was cycling down a perfectly straight 1miles country lane, there was a bus coming the other way with two cars behind it, none of them had time to overtake the bus before they would have taken me out but the idiot furthest back for whatever reason though he had enough time and room to overtake the bus with me coming towards him (the road is only just wide enough for bus and a car side by side)

anyway he had to slam on and i rode onto the bank at the side then shouted lots of abuse at him, but its drivers like him that make our roads dangerous, oh and if anyone was wondering, by the time he had stopped, got back up to speed again and caught up to the bus he didnt have time to overtake before the road came to a t junction so he could have killed me and it wouldnt have even got him to the end of the road any quicker!

symo

Drivers automtically at fault if a cyclist is struck. Then watch cycling become so much safer.