World Record Routes

pimptovimto
pimptovimto Posts: 56
edited October 2009 in Tour & expedition
Hi I posted this question in someone else's thread but think it might desrve a thread of its own.

In the last few years there have been a number of globe circumnavigation attempts, the most famous I guess is Mark Beaumonts record breaking attempt where he nocked a couple of months of the previous record. Well Mark's record certainly turned it into a race with a staggering 100miles a day average, therfore anyone that wants to beat him has to be commited and fit and avoid any pitfalls on the road as every day on the road counts.

My issue is the route setting, the Guiness regulations state that to set the record you must cycle in one direction as best as possible and you must cross through 2 antipidal points on the earth. Currently out there that I know of are james bowthorpe and Julian Emre Sayarer. Mark and James route are similar but Julian's is very different.

Do you think that takeing a SIGNIFICANTLY different route takes something away from the record attmept.

Comments

  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    100 miles per day isn't that big a deal. What about the previous record of Nick Sanders who cycled 21000km in 78 days - 275km per day. Now THAT'S impressive. Unfortunately Guinness changed the rules.... About time someone of the calibre of Sanders made the current record truly impressive again instead of all these fairly ordinary attempts.

    In answer to your question - I'd pick whatever route is easiest and within the rules. If Beaumont and others didn't pick the easiest route then that's their mistake.
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  • Interesting comments amaferanga

    "100 miles per day isn't that big a deal"- Really so when are you leaving on your record attempt then if its no big deal ?

    "About time someone of the calibre of Sanders made the current record truly impressive again instead of all these fairly ordinary attempts"- I would hardly describe the rides of Mark Beaumont, James Bowthorpe and Julian Emre Sayarer as 'ordinary'.
  • ralex
    ralex Posts: 85
    amaferanga wrote:
    100 miles per day isn't that big a deal. What about the previous record of Nick Sanders who cycled 21000km in 78 days - 275km per day. Now THAT'S impressive. Unfortunately Guinness changed the rules.... About time someone of the calibre of Sanders made the current record truly impressive again instead of all these fairly ordinary attempts.

    100 miles per day is not that big a deal if you do it for a few days or a couple of weeks even, but do it for six months in all types of terrain, weather and culture, and it becomes a pretty impressive feat.

    Nick Sanders 'only' cycled around 13000 miles in 78 days with a couple of front panniers, undoubtedly an impressive venture, but Mark Beaumont rode 18000 miles with full four panniers and camping gear, for three times as long. Surely an equally impressive journey.
  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    160km a day for 6 months doesn't comapare to doing 275km a day for 3 months even. I've averaged 100km/day (including rest days and sight-seeing days) over 3 months without really pushing myself on a tour almost entirely on very rough roads (in Africa). I've also cycled 300km/day for five days in a row and I know I couldn't do that for 3 months.

    What makes the difference is the recovery time - probably 14-16 hours most days doing 160km, but only 8-10 hours doing 275km.

    So while most people with a bit of determination and the right training could get close to 160km/day, only a few special folks could cycle 275km/day for even a few weeks. And only someone exceptionally special could cycle 275km/day for 3 months.

    So I'd say that Beaumont et al are clearly determined individuals, but not of the calibre of Nick Sanders.

    Just my opinion based on my extensive touring (several months at a time) and audaxing experience.....
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  • amaferanga wrote:
    So I'd say that Beaumont et al are clearly determined individuals, but not of the calibre of Nick Sanders.

    Just my opinion based on my extensive touring (several months at a time) and audaxing experience.....

    I think this is fair enough as an opinion but you cant rule out the fact that the record is 18000 miles.
  • stevenmh
    stevenmh Posts: 180
    I saw somewhere recently (here I think) an attempt that just skipped the whole of Australia completely! I think Guiness should update its regulations as I do not see how you can cycle around the world and not do Australia, it is a big place!!!

    Guiness needs to get involved as it is unfair on guys like Beaumont who imho did it prioperly only to be beaten by a guy who chose an "easier" route. Australia is going to be a massive challenge and the bits I saw of his ride in Australia were gruelling both physically and mentally.

    Perhaps they should do a round the world 1, 2 and 3 awards - then you can choose the route you want to take but everyone must be the same.
  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    Beaumont also skipped Africa and South America. Africa is over 4 times the size of Australia, South America is over twice the size.

    If someone chooses a more difficult route then that's their problem isn't it? I don't see why Beaumont's route should be THE route and why Australia is so important. Any route through Africa would be much more difficult than crossing Australia. If you are trying to cycle round the world the quickest then why would you not pick the easiest route?
    Perhaps they should do a round the world 1, 2 and 3 awards - then you can choose the route you want to take but everyone must be the same.

    Should they also be forced to ride the same bike, carry the same amount of stuff and start on the same day each year?
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  • stevenmh
    stevenmh Posts: 180
    ^ Exactly my point, it is so confusing. Get Guiness to set the routes and then there is no ambiguity.

    As for the bikes, as long as it does not have a motor, or sails etc then they can ride what they like as long as it is a bicycle. They would just have to have regs over what support if any they are allowed to have. What they carry is up to them.
  • ralex
    ralex Posts: 85
    Guinness World Records do set criteria for this, and those are the rules that Mark Beaumont used in his record.
    http://www.pedallingaround.com/route/?page_id=3
    If you were cycling around the world why would you necessarily go via Africa when the same longitude can be covered in Europe and Asia.

    Including South America and Africa would be necessary if you were doing a 'vertical' round the world route rather than a 'horizontal' one.
  • On the '100 miles a day is no big deal' - I'd have to say that having done that plenty of times (www.tra-velo-gue.co.uk) it flippin well is a big deal!

    100 on its own - fine but then add in the gear you have to carry, bad weather, things breaking, illness, poor food, lack of water...etc...all of a sudden its a lot harder to keep up the average. Anyone who gets even close to MB's record has done mighty fine in my book
  • dpiper wrote:
    100 on its own - fine but then add in the gear you have to carry, bad weather, things breaking, illness, poor food, lack of water...etc...all of a sudden its a lot harder to keep up the average. Anyone who gets even close to MB's record has done mighty fine in my book

    I agree.

    Julian Emre Sayarer seems to be averaging 102 miles a day, but James Bowthorpe (who's now back in europe) seems to have got 117 miles a day. Julian Emre Sayarer's route does appear to be a bit easier, but what would i know?

    James' mileage is very impressive after the illness he suffered and the subsequent loss of weight and fittness.
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  • I've just discovered something that I consider even more impressive! (but not entirely relevant!)...

    Jesper Olsen, of Denmark, ran around the world in 22 months on a route totaling 26,000 kilometers. His trip, starting in London in January 2004, averaged 28 miles–slightly more than a marathon!–per day and ended in October 2005.

    :shock:
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  • nasz
    nasz Posts: 88
    The problem is there are many different routes that meet the Guinness guidelines, which in themselves are flawed.

    Also, new border crossings are opening in many countries, which allows a trans-globe cyclist to knock significant mileage. For example, it is now possible to cross into India from Pakistan far nearer to Karachi than cycling up to the Wagah crossing near Lahore - this saves approxiamely 1000km of cycling on both sides of the border
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  • lesz42
    lesz42 Posts: 690
    James Bowthorpe did 120 to 164 miles a day for 40 days, non stop, i guess some here could do that easy :roll:
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  • jibi
    jibi Posts: 857
    If you are going to ride around the world...

    why not stop and smell the flowers...

    jibi
  • There is no "correct" route around the world. Choosing the best route is simply a strategic choice. As regards Sayarer's route being easier than Beaumont's or Bowthorpe's fair play to him if it is. Personally, I doubt that it's that much easier. Russia, Kazakhstan and Western China present big problems in terms of distances between settlements and getting food.

    One point though that I feel may invalidate Sayarer's attempt: He has covered the same latitude cycling from Bangkok to Singapore as he did further north in Central China. From my understanding of what the Guinness Book of Records requires, the trip must be continuously in one direction. It'll be interesting to see how this pans out.

    100 miles per day is not that impressive. It's good for most people but not world record standard in my opinion. Again though, fair play to all those guys who have tried/are trying it. They see that they have a chance of breaking a GWR and are going for it. Check out www.lonebiker.dk More impressive IMO.

    One final point is that Guinness from my understanding don't differenciate between those who receive support and those who don't. Both Beaumont and Bowthorpe received support along part of their journeys as far as I understand. I think GWR should compare like with like because cycling with support (therefore carrying no luggage) is much easier that an unsupported ride. Personally I think in the interests of fairness support should not be allowed i.e. the record should be for a solo attempt. That's the case for the record of cycling around Australia. No pre arranged support is allowed. This guy for example aims to cycle around the world in 100 days in a fully supported ride http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/wdp/news ... ticle.html That's hardly the same as the current records. It's a bit like letting a car race against a tractor.
  • jitensha -both Mark,James and Julian were/are totally unsupported on their rides as mentioned earlier in this thread, carried/carrying all their own gear in panniers on their bikes.
  • jitensha -both Mark,James and Julian were/are totally unsupported on their rides as mentioned earlier in this thread, carried/carrying all their own gear in panniers on their bikes.


    Hi Buitenlander,

    Actually that's not correct. The following quote is from a James Bowthorpe Twitter on July 12th while he was in New Zealand:
    # damp and cold but got the gear for it - big climb later today. NZ is whizzing by in a beautiful blur. Support making a huge difference!12:33 PM Jul 12th from web
    Bold mine

    Available at: http://twitter.com/globecycle You will have to scroll down a long way to see it. Here is another Tweet indicating support:
    # good ride today, good pasta made by Pip, will sleep well. weather was well crisp today but Rob just showed me satelite image, stormsacomin4:07 AM Jul 10th from web

    Apparently Rob and Pip from Cactus Equipment (one of Jame's sponsors) were on the road with him. Cooking sometimes, helping with his route planning etc. Of course that's perfectly within the rules, so James was doing everything 100% legitimately. What I'm saying though is that such support should not be allowed. Otherwise the record will be smashed by somebody who gets support for all of a circumnavigation attempt. Which is fine I guess so long as it's specified that the attempt was supported. What's really needed is two categories - one supported, one unsupported.

    In the case of Mark Beaumont I believe that he had someone from his support team meet him to get a leg message! Again perfectly fine but it is support.

    Can't say for definite in either case whether luggage was carried for those two guys.

    From his website it seems Julian Sayarer has not received any such support so far.

    I think what these guys are doing/have done is great. I would like to see fair rules though in relation to support applied by GWR.
  • If there are two categories, one supported and one unsupported, it would be completely unfair to suggest MArk and James be in the unsupported one!

    IMO Supported is somebody carrying your equipment. Not someone to keep you company and cook you food for a very small part of a 6 month trip! In that sense, if he was to buy food rather than cook it himself, is that supported??

    The "support made a huge difference tweet" i think was a reference to people supporting/sponsoring from afar/back home etc.

    Did you see Mark's docu? I really can't see how you can suggest that it should be unsupported.

    The lonebiker.dk link is very impressive, but his trips although more intense, are much shorter. It's the prolonged effort of doing it for 6 months that I find amazing. And until somebody better's James' record I think he should be acknowledged as such rather than people on here suggesting because they can do his daily mileage once a week that it's not a very impressive feat.
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  • Under the current rules if somebody gets 100% support i.e. all equipment carried, food cooked, etc and they break James' record, then that new record stands. Is it fair to compare such a record with James' record?

    IMO rules re support should be clearly defined and applied. For example in the case of the record for the ride around Australia the rules re support are as follows:
    Pre-arranged local support (shelter, spares, food, guidance) is allowed up to a maximum of four places (not counting the ferry in Wellington). Local means that the supporter does not travel a substantial distance to provide the support.
    The lonebiker.dk link is very impressive, but his trips although more intense, are much shorter.

    Yes, his trips are much shorter because he's doing them much more quickly! Increased intensity IS what makes it more difficult. It's far more difficult and impressive to ride 14,611km in 51 days 47mins that it is to ride 29,000 km in 175 days. Earlier in this thread it was suggested that Australia should be on the route because other riders went through there and it was particularly trying for Beaumont. Lonebiker.dk went around the perimeter of that inhospitable continent much more quickly on average.

    Bottom line for me: What Beaumont and Bowthorpe did was great, but not amazingly impressive which is what one would expect from GWR. Sayerer's attempt does seem more record worthy IMO. Looks like he'll average 200km+ per day. Will be interesting to see though if he has issues because of the non-continuous nature of his route. Erik Straarup from www.lonebiker.dk has set what I believe to be a real record that will stand for some time. I doubt the current batch of "round the world" records will last for long.
  • Hi jitensha,

    Thx for the reply, didn't hear about any support on the NZ leg for James but I'll ask him and see if I can get him to post a reply directly.

    Cheers,
    Buit.