WADA seek life ban for Hamilton

iainf72

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=re ... &type=lgns

Not sure why they're bothering but anyway.

aurelio_-_banned

iainf72 wrote:

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=reu-dopinghamilton&prov=reuters&type=lgns

Not sure why they're bothering but anyway.

To show how 'tough' they are in the fight against doping?

bikerZA

utterly pointless. what a waste of time and money.

andyp

After the Vino debacle, I think they should seek a lifetime ban for serial offenders, regardless of their stated intentions.

donrhummy

It really is a waste of money. It's already an 8 year ban.

Pokerface

In Hamilton's case it may seem pointless. But if it sets a precedent - then it is a worthwhile exercise.

afx237vi

Won't a life ban stop him working as a coach, or with a team and stuff like that? Seems sensible if that's the case.

drenkrom

Yes, afx, it would. I also think it's a valid thing to do for those reasons.

donrhummy

afx237vi wrote:

Won't a life ban stop him working as a coach, or with a team and stuff like that? Seems sensible if that's the case.

So you don't believe that people can eventually learn, get better, fix their mistakes? An 8 year ban is a LONG time. granted, it's not a guarantee but I'm not for lifetime bans - it sends the wrong message: that we don't believe in forgiveness, learning, or improvement, etc.

Kléber

Hamilton hasn't made any effort to apologise and make amends donrhummy.

afx237vi

donrhummy wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

Won't a life ban stop him working as a coach, or with a team and stuff like that? Seems sensible if that's the case.

So you don't believe that people can eventually learn, get better, fix their mistakes? An 8 year ban is a LONG time. granted, it's not a guarantee but I'm not for lifetime bans - it sends the wrong message: that we don't believe in forgiveness, learning, or improvement, etc.

Sure. Maybe Tyler should have learned, got better, and fixed his mistakes in his original 2 year ban. How many chances do you want to give people? Don't you think there should ever come a point where sporting authorities say "enough is enough, we don't want people like you around any more". Because I do.

Say he does his 8 years and comes back as a coach. Given that the guy is a proven liar and a serial doper, would you want him coaching your kids?

Steve Tcp

If you follow the argument that riders who dope make DS that allow riders to dope then there is a logic to a lifetime ban. However, the use of PEDs will go on anyway imo, whether the team managers encourage it or not, but even after the debacle of his previous pathetic portestations I've turned full circle with Hamilton and now find myself feeling sorry for him. Furthermore I suspect that this attempt to deepen his discrediation may end up killing him. Is it right in that light - pushing and pushing a guy who has already seen his life fall apart, albeit at his own hand, and who is also suffering from depression? I see similarities here to the Marco Pantani story and fear for the guy to be honest, and wonder if at some point and in some cases there should be an outreach programme to actively rehabilitate guys like Hamilton rather than Crucifying them. If we try to see past the lying, cheating, doping cyclist there is (by all accounts) a really nice human being who may well be in desperate need of help, not further punishment.

afx237vi

Steve Tcp wrote:

If you follow the argument that riders who dope make DS that allow riders to dope then there is a logic to a lifetime ban. However, the use of PEDs will go on anyway imo, whether the team managers encourage it or not, but even after the debacle of his previous pathetic portestations I've turned full circle with Hamilton and now find myself feeling sorry for him. Furthermore I suspect that this attempt to deepen his discrediation may end up killing him. Is it right in that light - pushing and pushing a guy who has already seen his life fall apart, albeit at his own hand, and who is also suffering from depression? I see similarities here to the Marco Pantani story and fear for the guy to be honest, and wonder if at some point and in some cases there should be an outreach programme to actively rehabilitate guys like Hamilton rather than Crucifying them. If we try to see past the lying, cheating, doping cyclist there is (by all accounts) a really nice human being who may well be in desperate need of help, not further punishment.

But Pantani ended up dying because of the people constantly trying to keep him involved with cycling, when it was the worst place he could be.

I agree that guys like Hamilton need help in finding something to do with their life outside of cycling.

Yorkman

Kléber wrote:

Hamilton hasn't made any effort to apologise and make amends donrhummy.

Indeed.

Rather, he has trotted out a tale to try and evoke sympathy and avoid condemnation.

But he still enjoys the financial benefits of his exploits.

Steve Tcp

afx237vi wrote:

But Pantani ended up dying because of the people constantly trying to keep him involved with cycling, when it was the worst place he could be.

It wasn't quite that simple though was it. Sure it was a big factor but the main thing TH and MP have in common is that they both (falsely) protested their innocence so long and hard that they almost believed it and became deluded and unable to face the consequences of their own actions.

afx237vi

Steve Tcp wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

But Pantani ended up dying because of the people constantly trying to keep him involved with cycling, when it was the worst place he could be.

It wasn't quite that simple though was it. Sure it was a big factor but the main thing TH and MP have in common is that they both (falsely) protested their innocence so long and hard that they almost believed it and became deluded and unable to face the consequences of their own actions.

Exactly, so why are people saying a life ban is too harsh? Pantani should have been kept away from cycling for his own good. The same goes for Hamilton. Neither Hamilton or Pantani thought up those ludicrous excuses on their own - they were put under huge pressure from managers, lawyers, sponsors, team-mates, so-called "friends".

Steve Tcp

afx237vi wrote:

Steve Tcp wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

But Pantani ended up dying because of the people constantly trying to keep him involved with cycling, when it was the worst place he could be.

It wasn't quite that simple though was it. Sure it was a big factor but the main thing TH and MP have in common is that they both (falsely) protested their innocence so long and hard that they almost believed it and became deluded and unable to face the consequences of their own actions.

Exactly, so why are people saying a life ban is too harsh? Pantani should have been kept away from cycling for his own good. The same goes for Hamilton. Neither Hamilton or Pantani thought up those ludicrous excuses on their own - they were put under huge pressure from managers, lawyers, sponsors, team-mates, so-called "friends".

Well I heard Greg Lemond talking about some awful medical practices in the pro Peleton that go beyond PEDs, but as I understand it this current ban is for Hamilton taking an anti depressant. Do we know (genuine question this) whether this was administered by his team for dubious reason or by his own Doctor to help him with his life off the bike?

afx237vi

Steve Tcp wrote:

Well I heard Greg Lemond talking about some awful medical practices in the pro peloton that go beyond PEDs, but as I understand it this current ban is for Hamilton taking an anti depressant. Do we know (genuine question this) whether this was administered by his team for dubious reason or by his own Doctor to help him with his life off the bike?

He said he bought it himself in a pharmacist and used it knowing it would produce a positive test.

Kléber

Don't forget Hamilton would have been banned a long time ago had his samples from the 2004 Olympics not been mishandled.

Steve Tcp

I would add that it would be fantastic if WADA were doing this to keep Hamilton out of cycling for his own good, but I don't think it is and, back at my original point, it doesn't help him in his current mental state, quite the oppostie. So why not do something that does help him instead of wasting money on a vengeful (if justified) prosecution. I simply think their time and money could be better spent.

Steve Tcp

afx237vi wrote:

He said he bought it himself in a pharmacist and used it knowing it would produce a positive test.

Really? Well that does sound like a cry for help to me. I'll have to read up on it a bit more when I get chance.