Lead Out Men

Tusher
Tusher Posts: 2,762
edited July 2009 in Pro race
Renshaw moves so fast, he must surely be wondering if he could equal Farrar in a head to head (if not Cav). And an excellent move by Wiggins to jump ship last year as he's evolving into a fine GC contender. (if he'd stayed with Columbia, he's have been serving Cav all year round)

And yet Steegmans just doesn't seem to have the strength of personality to be the main man, and Ciolek is strugging, yet did a fantastic job last year as Cav's lead out men.

What makes a good lead out man? Do they stay in that role because of large amounts of cash? Do they just lack the final speed, or is it psychological? Better to be a small fish in a large pool or a big fish in a small pool?


can anyone think of a sprinter who ended his career as a lead-out? ('cos I can't).

Comments

  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    Tusher wrote:
    And yet Steegmans just doesn't seem to have the strength of personality to be the main man

    Hasn't he been suspended because he refuses to sign the new Katusha contract?
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  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    Yes he has, reddragon, but even before that he was talked about as being fast, but just didn't seem to believe that he was a winner. And he seemed perfectly happy to slot into the role he had played before, as McEwan's lead out man.
  • Garry H
    Garry H Posts: 6,639
    Tusher wrote:
    Yes he has, reddragon, but even before that he was talked about as being fast, but just didn't seem to believe that he was a winner. And he seemed perfectly happy to slot into the role he had played before, as McEwen's lead out man.

    Good enough to win the final stage last year though...
  • teagar
    teagar Posts: 2,100
    Tusher wrote:


    can anyone think of a sprinter who ended his career as a lead-out? ('cos I can't).

    Zabel for Pettachi.
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    .........true, very true.

    Might be barking up the wrong tree here, but I think I was just wondering if lead out men are a slightly different breed. Probably not putting it very well.
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Tusher wrote:
    Renshaw moves so fast, he must surely be wondering if he could equal Farrar in a head to head (if not Cav). And an excellent move by Wiggins to jump ship last year as he's evolving into a fine GC contender. (if he'd stayed with Columbia, he's have been serving Cav all year round)

    And yet Steegmans just doesn't seem to have the strength of personality to be the main man, and Ciolek is strugging, yet did a fantastic job last year as Cav's lead out men.

    What makes a good lead out man? Do they stay in that role because of large amounts of cash? Do they just lack the final speed, or is it psychological? Better to be a small fish in a large pool or a big fish in a small pool?


    can anyone think of a sprinter who ended his career as a lead-out? ('cos I can't)    .

    Zabel led out Petacchi for a few times in his final year. It's more common for sprinters to morph into classics men or rouleur road captains... think O'Grady and probably Boonen in the coming years.

    If you look at a guy like Renshaw, he's fast enough to beat guys like Duque or Sebastien Chavanel, but not fast enough to beat the top names. If you join a team as their main sprinter and only bring home a few wins a year in smaller races against middle-ranked guys, you're only going to get a good contract for one or two years. It's better to become a lead-out man instead, because good ones are a) rare, b) highly valuable. People like Marco Velo and Giovanni Lombardi must surely have become two of the most highly paid riders in the peloton, outside of the sprinters and the GC men.
  • turkeytickler
    turkeytickler Posts: 640
    Tusher wrote:
    What makes a good lead out man?
    they tend to be pretty tasty sprinters themselves perhaps without the top notch finish. Julian Dean seems to have made a career out of leading out the likes of Thor "my mum cooks my dinner because im scared of that dodgy french food" Hushovd but has done ok as a sprinter himself in lesser event (think he won the points jersey in the TOB a few years back)....
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Julian Dean's last pro victory was 6 years ago - people only ever notice him because he's been the NZ champion for donkey's years.
  • Smokin Joe
    Smokin Joe Posts: 2,706
    I think the leadout men are more like pursuiters than sprinters. They can hold a very high pace for a reasonable distance, but they lack that instant explosion of speed that the likes of Cavendish are capable of.
  • turkeytickler
    turkeytickler Posts: 640
    afx237vi wrote:
    Julian Dean's last pro victory was 6 years ago - people only ever notice him because he's been the NZ champion for donkey's years.
    stage victory? im sure he won the TOB points in 2004 or 2005.... cant claim he won a stage though.... still, i think we are in agreement, he's an ok sprinter, but not great, the former making him a good lead out man....
  • turkeytickler
    turkeytickler Posts: 640
    Smokin Joe wrote:
    I think the leadout men are more like pursuiters than sprinters. They can hold a very high pace for a reasonable distance, but they lack that instant explosion of speed that the likes of Cavendish are capable of.
    miller has done a few decent lead outs in his time i think....
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Smokin Joe wrote:
    I think the leadout men are more like pursuiters than sprinters. They can hold a very high pace for a reasonable distance, but they lack that instant explosion of speed that the likes of Cavendish are capable of.

    I think pursuiters are more helpful for reeling breakaways in, rather than providing the actual lead-out.

    Last year Wiggins was always two or three places down the train before Ciolek (another sprinter) provided the actual lead-out. Looking at Renshaw's track disciplines, most of his performances have been in the madison, scratch and points race... same as Cavendish.

    Same goes for Cervelo. Roulston and Lancaster provide the train before Haussler gives the lead-out (or he's supposed to, anyway).
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    turkeytickler wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    Julian Dean's last pro victory was 6 years ago - people only ever notice him because he's been the NZ champion for donkey's years.
    stage victory? im sure he won the TOB points in 2004 or 2005.... cant claim he won a stage though.... still, i think we are in agreement, he's an ok sprinter, but not great, the former making him a good lead out man....

    Last year he had two 2nds, a 4th and two 5ths in the ToB. His last actual victory, other than the NZ RR title, was in the 2003 Circuit Franco-Belge.

    http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/ri ... iderid=263

    But yeah, he always did a good job as lead-out man for Hushovd.
  • markwalker
    markwalker Posts: 953
    afx237vi wrote:
    Tusher wrote:
    Zabel led out Petacchi for a few times in his final year. It's more common for sprinters to morph into classics men or rouleur road captains... think O'Grady and probably Boonen in the coming years.

    .

    Quite, I think i heard an interview with Boonen where he said a couple of days ago that hes got the power but no longer the punch. Or words to that effect.
  • teagar
    teagar Posts: 2,100
    afx237vi wrote:

    Zabel led out Petacchi for a few times in his final year. It's more common for sprinters to morph into classics men or rouleur road captains... think O'Grady and probably Boonen in the coming years.

    Boonen's development is so far very similar to Museeuw's. They're quite comparable in that respect.
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • teagar
    teagar Posts: 2,100
    markwalker wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    Tusher wrote:
    Zabel led out Petacchi for a few times in his final year. It's more common for sprinters to morph into classics men or rouleur road captains... think O'Grady and probably Boonen in the coming years.

    .

    Quite, I think i heard an interview with Boonen where he said a couple of days ago that hes got the power but no longer the punch. Or words to that effect.

    He was saying he has more strength (for tough courses) , but his head isn't where it used to be. He was saying as he gets older he sees more danger in the sprints etc.

    His heart isn't in sprints. It never really was.
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • Moomaloid
    Moomaloid Posts: 2,040
    afx237vi wrote:
    Smokin Joe wrote:
    I think the leadout men are more like pursuiters than sprinters. They can hold a very high pace for a reasonable distance, but they lack that instant explosion of speed that the likes of Cavendish are capable of.

    I think pursuiters are more helpful for reeling breakaways in, rather than providing the actual lead-out.

    Last year Wiggins was always two or three places down the train before Ciolek (another sprinter) provided the actual lead-out. Looking at Renshaw's track disciplines, most of his performances have been in the madison, scratch and points race... same as Cavendish.

    Same goes for Cervelo. Roulston and Lancaster provide the train before Haussler gives the lead-out (or he's supposed to, anyway).

    I was gonna say... Where is Haussler?? he should pulling Thor up alongside Renshaw..
  • Homer J
    Homer J Posts: 920
    man, you guys need to get out more :roll:
  • FOAD
    FOAD Posts: 318
    Awesome post Homer, you're the man!
  • Stuey01
    Stuey01 Posts: 1,273
    Homer J wrote:
    man, you guys need to get out more :roll:

    Yeah, talking about cycling, what were you thinking? :roll:


    I thought Haussler looked a quite peed off in the TV interviews yesterday, I got the impression he is ready to do the lead out but he said Thor wanted to take Cav's wheel.
    Not climber, not sprinter, not rouleur

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