Drafting

White Line

Don't do it kids!

Okay, so today I was on my way to my lovely work. A little headwind coming from the right a bit, but nothing to worry about. Decided it would be a good idea to draft a little piece of crap Rover that was following a bus at about 23 mph so I could just coast along.

So, there I was a few inches away from the passenger side rear lights, when the guy started to slow down quite a bit - my options were either endo and faceplant on the rear window or undertake him. I went with what I thought would be the easiest option.

Unfortunately, the guy was slowing down to pull in. After cushioning the blow that my baby received I got up and started to put the chain back on the chainring.

"Did you come out from there?"

"No. I was behind you four the last five hundred metres."

"Didn't you see me indicating."

"No. You should still look before pulling in."

"Sorry about that." *walks off*

Come to think of it, I did see it flash once but it he could have stared to indicate earlier. Still not his fault though; I was following way too close.

Lesson learned. :oops:

Rich158

I had a similar experience this morning following a skip lorry, but luckily without the crash. Drafting at his nearside corner, I suddnely became aware that he was slowing rapidly, but no brake light was showing, and I had nowhere to go :shock: Luckily I managed to stop - just - and then realised he only had one working brake light :evil: :evil:

always_tyred

Okay, so I've learned that hanging on by a length of rope to the back of large vehicles travelling at high speed whilst rollerblading is dangerous. Don't do it kids!


Guys, guy.... this whole freeclimbing thing is like way dangerous. I was half way up the gherkin and my hand slipped. I nearly wiped out!



Hey! Don't run with scissors. I was running.....okay you get the point.

Kieran_Burns

I used to draft lorries across the new(er) Burton bridge in my youth (student days) which was a 40 limit and they would be doing that quite happily.

I'd be sat on their rear quarter spinning easily in top gear mere inches from the back and loving it.

Right up until the time one needed to emergency stop and God only knows how I am still here :oops: Stupid, stupid, stupid.....

ince

I came very close to the back of a van once doing the very same. I have learnt from this and now only draft when I can see through the windows to the front. :shock:

it's a lean from your mistake situation.

Rich158

It might be dangerous and ill advised, but we've forgotten a couple fo very important points

It's free speed, and it's fun

shoulder_of_orion

I have done a bit of bus drafting in the past, but have given it up because you need cojones the size of beachballs to carry it off.

It's not Silly it's freaking insane is what it is...

Good fun when you get it right, and blast off from behind the bus at 30ish as it pulls in for a stop and maybe overtake a car or two...

I had way too many close shaves though, so have promised myself no more....

Still engage in a bit of fast filtering for kicks though

Headhuunter

Yep, I've drafed buses and lorries before but not hit anything yet, I just keep my hands full on the brakes ready to grab a handful as soon as is necessary...

29029

Been there, done that, had the crash, bike brakes are nothing compared to brakes and tyre traction on a big vehicle like a bus or skip lorry.

In my younger days used to draft the school buses, these old machines didn't have the harsh acceleration like the modern turbo diesels and were easy to keep up with until spinning in top gear. This came to an end when I was drafting a bus at about 30 mph when it had to do a quick stop, bike brakes hardly had any affect before I was splatted against the back of the bus. Thankfully no damage, just a damaged ego, but beware it is only a matter of time!

Feltup

I drafted a lorry round a roundabout on the A404 on to the dual carriageway. We were up to 46 mph when I realised that we were now moving out to overtake something else. I had visions of being in the ouside lane along side a truck and getting stranded there. I backed off and tried to make the jump to the truck we were overtaking but my legs blew up and I settled back to tapping along. Great fun but really stupid too.

p.s. I always sit on the outside corner because you have much less chance of getting pinned if you have to use the space either side to stop in. Still stupid though!

jedster

.s. I always sit on the outside corner because you have much less chance of getting pinned if you have to use the space either side to stop in. Still stupid though!

Yeah. Bit like saying "when I practice my blindfolded chainsaw juggling I always make sure to wear gloves"

Eau Rouge

jedster wrote:

.s. I always sit on the outside corner because you have much less chance of getting pinned if you have to use the space either side to stop in. Still stupid though!

Yeah. Bit like saying "when I practice my blindfolded chainsaw juggling I always make sure to wear gloves"

The secret is not to turn them on.

Jamey

ince wrote:

...only draft when I can see through the windows to the front.

Just because they've got a clear road doesn't mean they're not going to stop.

Khai

Drafting buses and overtaking roadies on my Brompton are two of the more entertaining parts of cycle commuting.

il_principe

Khai wrote:

Drafting buses and overtaking roadies on my Brompton are two of the more entertaining parts of cycle commuting.

Careful... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyeJU6U00wA

DonDaddyD

This thread irks me a little if I had to be honest.

Drafting when commuting is stupid. I'm sorry, we've all done it. But it is. I'm not going to publicly hang those that have admitting to doing so. But equally, though even more vocally, I'm going to advise cyclists not to do so.

In a club run the person infront knows the person behind is purposely drafting and the likelihood of them stopping abruptly is unlikely because they are aware of situation, their responsibilty and those behind them. Commuting while drafting is different.

Commuting isn't racing, there are unexpected hazzards that can occur at any time on a busy road flanked by busy pedestrian filled pavements. A vehicle can stop suddenly at any time. Drafting a vehicle where you can't see the road ahead - to anticipate stopping (first rule of braking is anticipation) - compounds upon this danger.

Charging up either side of a vehicle is also dangerous, at least check what is ahead of you before do so, so that you know the road ahead is clear. A car wouldn't/shouldn't swerve around a bus stopped at a bus stop to the get ahead of it, without checking for hazzards ahead like oncoming vehicles, so why do this on a bike. - At least in a car the driver is cocooned in a metal shell designed to save his life completely.

Filtering to the left or right of a vehicle. If a car has slowed down, check why the car slowed, be sure that it isn't about to manoeuvre so that it doesn't crush you by turning left.

Commuting and cycling in general is about anticipation.

Now you can all get back to discussing how your face met with buses.... :roll:

Headhuunter

Well I don't get the chance to do it very often in London on the commute as the traffic is too stop start, the only place I do it is across London Bridge sometimes when traffic picks up sufficient speed. I usually hang just to the right of the rear of the vehicle and so far, touch wood, have been fine. I would say there is certainly more danger trailing a bus or whatever that blocks your view ahead but drafting a car, taxi or whatever when you can relatively easily see what's ahead, is fine in my book.

fnegroni

DonDaddyD wrote:

This thread irks me a little if I had to be honest.

Drafting when commuting is stupid. I'm sorry, we've all done it. But it is. I'm not going to publicly hang those that have admitting to doing so. But equally, though even more vocally, I'm going to advise cyclists not to do so.

In a club run the person infront knows the person behind is purposely drafting and the likelihood of them stopping abruptly is unlikely because they are aware of situation, their responsibilty and those behind them. Commuting while drafting is different.

Commuting isn't racing, there are unexpected hazzards that can occur at any time on a busy road flanked by busy pedestrian filled pavements. A vehicle can stop suddenly at any time. Drafting a vehicle where you can't see the road ahead - to anticipate stopping (first rule of braking is anticipation) - compounds upon this danger.

Charging up either side of a vehicle is also dangerous, at least check what is ahead of you before do so, so that you know the road ahead is clear. A car wouldn't/shouldn't swerve around a bus stopped at a bus stop to the get ahead of it, without checking for hazzards ahead like oncoming vehicles, so why do this on a bike. - At least in a car the driver is cocooned in a metal shell designed to save his life completely.

Filtering to the left or right of a vehicle. If a car has slowed down, check why the car slowed, be sure that it isn't about to manoeuvre so that it doesn't crush you by turning left.

Commuting and cycling in general is about anticipation.

Now you can all get back to discussing how your face met with buses.... :roll:

+1

And "vehicle in front" includes other cyclists too.

It is not the drafting, but the 'expectations' of being drafted that is crucial to the point.

Maybe a nice "Think!" advert with examples from above could wake up some sleepy minds.

Headhuunter

fnegroni wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

This thread irks me a little if I had to be honest.

Drafting when commuting is stupid. I'm sorry, we've all done it. But it is. I'm not going to publicly hang those that have admitting to doing so. But equally, though even more vocally, I'm going to advise cyclists not to do so.

In a club run the person infront knows the person behind is purposely drafting and the likelihood of them stopping abruptly is unlikely because they are aware of situation, their responsibilty and those behind them. Commuting while drafting is different.

Commuting isn't racing, there are unexpected hazzards that can occur at any time on a busy road flanked by busy pedestrian filled pavements. A vehicle can stop suddenly at any time. Drafting a vehicle where you can't see the road ahead - to anticipate stopping (first rule of braking is anticipation) - compounds upon this danger.

Charging up either side of a vehicle is also dangerous, at least check what is ahead of you before do so, so that you know the road ahead is clear. A car wouldn't/shouldn't swerve around a bus stopped at a bus stop to the get ahead of it, without checking for hazzards ahead like oncoming vehicles, so why do this on a bike. - At least in a car the driver is cocooned in a metal shell designed to save his life completely.

Filtering to the left or right of a vehicle. If a car has slowed down, check why the car slowed, be sure that it isn't about to manoeuvre so that it doesn't crush you by turning left.

Commuting and cycling in general is about anticipation.

Now you can all get back to discussing how your face met with buses.... :roll:

+1

If it irks you, don't do it. It doesn't affect you if someone else gives it a go!

fnegroni

Headhuunter wrote:

fnegroni wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

This thread irks me a little if I had to be honest.

Drafting when commuting is stupid. I'm sorry, we've all done it. But it is. I'm not going to publicly hang those that have admitting to doing so. But equally, though even more vocally, I'm going to advise cyclists not to do so.

In a club run the person infront knows the person behind is purposely drafting and the likelihood of them stopping abruptly is unlikely because they are aware of situation, their responsibilty and those behind them. Commuting while drafting is different.

Commuting isn't racing, there are unexpected hazzards that can occur at any time on a busy road flanked by busy pedestrian filled pavements. A vehicle can stop suddenly at any time. Drafting a vehicle where you can't see the road ahead - to anticipate stopping (first rule of braking is anticipation) - compounds upon this danger.

Charging up either side of a vehicle is also dangerous, at least check what is ahead of you before do so, so that you know the road ahead is clear. A car wouldn't/shouldn't swerve around a bus stopped at a bus stop to the get ahead of it, without checking for hazzards ahead like oncoming vehicles, so why do this on a bike. - At least in a car the driver is cocooned in a metal shell designed to save his life completely.

Filtering to the left or right of a vehicle. If a car has slowed down, check why the car slowed, be sure that it isn't about to manoeuvre so that it doesn't crush you by turning left.

Commuting and cycling in general is about anticipation.

Now you can all get back to discussing how your face met with buses.... :roll:

+1

If it irks you, don't do it. It doesn't affect you if someone else gives it a go!

I drive a car: if someone gives it a go, I have the right to report him as a dangerous rider. He is obviously trying to get killed or at least damage my property (car).

I ride a bike: if someone does it to me, it doesn't just irk me, and he is sure to get an earful. They are endangering me. Period.

Headhuunter

fnegroni wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

fnegroni wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

This thread irks me a little if I had to be honest.

Drafting when commuting is stupid. I'm sorry, we've all done it. But it is. I'm not going to publicly hang those that have admitting to doing so. But equally, though even more vocally, I'm going to advise cyclists not to do so.

In a club run the person infront knows the person behind is purposely drafting and the likelihood of them stopping abruptly is unlikely because they are aware of situation, their responsibilty and those behind them. Commuting while drafting is different.

Commuting isn't racing, there are unexpected hazzards that can occur at any time on a busy road flanked by busy pedestrian filled pavements. A vehicle can stop suddenly at any time. Drafting a vehicle where you can't see the road ahead - to anticipate stopping (first rule of braking is anticipation) - compounds upon this danger.

Charging up either side of a vehicle is also dangerous, at least check what is ahead of you before do so, so that you know the road ahead is clear. A car wouldn't/shouldn't swerve around a bus stopped at a bus stop to the get ahead of it, without checking for hazzards ahead like oncoming vehicles, so why do this on a bike. - At least in a car the driver is cocooned in a metal shell designed to save his life completely.

Filtering to the left or right of a vehicle. If a car has slowed down, check why the car slowed, be sure that it isn't about to manoeuvre so that it doesn't crush you by turning left.

Commuting and cycling in general is about anticipation.

Now you can all get back to discussing how your face met with buses.... :roll:

+1

If it irks you, don't do it. It doesn't affect you if someone else gives it a go!

I drive a car: if someone gives it a go, I have the right to report him as a dangerous rider.

I ride a bike: if someone does it to me, it doesn't just irk me, and he is sure to get an earful.

I don't find it particularly dangerous so I guess that's just a matter of opinion. I don't draft other bike riders on the commute, they're usually too slow. Sorry if that sounds arrogant, but mostly they are.

If someone drafts me on my commute (or at any other time), they're welcome. As long as they don't run into me or otherwise affect my ride.

fnegroni

Headhuunter wrote:

If someone drafts me on my commute (or at any other time), they're welcome. As long as they don't run into me or otherwise affect my ride.

Sure. I guess you don't mind vehicles being inches from your rear bumper on the motorway either: provided they don't bump into you of course.

Headhuunter

fnegroni wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

If someone drafts me on my commute (or at any other time), they're welcome. As long as they don't run into me or otherwise affect my ride.

Sure. I guess you don't mind vehicles being inches from your rear bumper on the motorway either: provided they don't bump into you of course.

Well with the higher speeds and risk of multiple vehicle pile up on a motorway, I wouldn't hang within inches of another motor vehicle. I'm talking of drafting a motorist at speeds of up to 30mph possibly, I would chicken out at much above that.

I really have no problem with other cyclists drafting me. I do a lot of club runs and chaingang rides though and being very close to the cyclist in front and having another one close behind as well as someone inches from my right is normal on rides like that. Commuter riders probably aren't used to the proximity.

fnegroni

Headhuunter wrote:

fnegroni wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

I really have no problem with other cyclists drafting me. I do a lot of club runs and chaingang rides though and being very close to the cyclist in front and having another one close behind as well as someone inches from my right is normal on rides like that. Commuter riders probably aren't used to the proximity.

Commuter riders don't always go the same way, and usually commute during peak hours and not being out 'with their mates' are not going to be particularly mindful of the rider following and not knowing if the rider that follows can indeed read the signals or not adds to the pressure.

Draft your friends, but stay away from strangers. That would be my advise.

And cars have much more powerful brakes than a bike so even if they are doing 30 mph they can very easily slow down a few times faster: by drafting you are effectively 'not in control' and basically trust the driver in front.

I would say if you do it, it's just like filtering on the left of a big lorry. An accident waiting to happen.

I also don't understand the kicks you get from doing it: I can do 30mph on the flat without drafting a vehicle in front, and certainly cycle for fitness, so drafting is just like a spotter that helps you lifting a weight by lifting it themselves: it won't make you stronger.

You say you do it during club runs. That's fine.

But I am not your club mate: why do it to me? What am I, a free drafting service? Do I cycle around to give lifts? No. So stay away.

Headhuunter

fnegroni wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

fnegroni wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

I really have no problem with other cyclists drafting me. I do a lot of club runs and chaingang rides though and being very close to the cyclist in front and having another one close behind as well as someone inches from my right is normal on rides like that. Commuter riders probably aren't used to the proximity.

Commuter riders don't always go the same way, and usually commute during peak hours and not being out 'with their mates' are not going to be particularly mindful of the rider following and not knowing if the rider that follows can indeed read the signals or not adds to the pressure.

Draft your friends, but stay away from strangers. That would be my advise.

And cars have much more powerful brakes than a bike so even if they are doing 30 mph they can very easily slow down a few times faster: by drafting you are effectively 'not in control' and basically trust the driver in front.

I would say if you do it, it's just like filtering on the left of a big lorry. An accident waiting to happen.

I also don't understand the kicks you get from doing it: I can do 30mph on the flat without drafting a vehicle in front, and certainly cycle for fitness, so drafting is just like a spotter that helps you lifting a weight by lifting it themselves: it won't make you stronger.

You say you do it during club runs. That's fine.

But I am not your club mate: why do it to me? What am I, a free drafting service? Do I cycle around to give lifts? No. So stay away.

Anyone who cycles regularly and is fitter than average can probably make 30mph on the flat, but you can do it for longer and whilst expending less energy if you draft. As I said, I never draft other commuters, they're too slow, but I'm afraid I remain partial to dropping in behind the odd black cab or even bus. Yes, there are dangers involved, but there's nothing like a little frisson of danger before breakfast... Each to their own I say.

bigmat

Re drafting other bikes, in reality if you do hit the brakes and the bike behind clatters into you, chances are they will be the ones who suffer and will learn their lesson that way. Happened to me going down the hill from Clapham North to Stockwell, a car overtook whilst indicating to turn left, I anticipated being left hooked and hit the brakes (correctly, as he then turned across me). Unfortunately the guy who had been drafting me hadn't spotted this and went straight into the back of me. He went down like a sack of the proverbial. Fortunately I was fine, stopped to check he was OK and to check my rear wheel was OK and that was that. So people, chill out, being drafted doesn't put you in danger!

fnegroni

MatHammond wrote:

Re drafting other bikes, in reality if you do hit the brakes and the bike behind clatters into you, chances are they will be the ones who suffer and will learn their lesson that way. Happened to me going down the hill from Clapham North to Stockwell, a car overtook whilst indicating to turn left, I anticipated being left hooked and hit the brakes (correctly, as he then turned across me). Unfortunately the guy who had been drafting me hadn't spotted this and went straight into the back of me. He went down like a sack of the proverbial. Fortunately I was fine, stopped to check he was OK and to check my rear wheel was OK and that was that. So people, chill out, being drafted doesn't put you in danger!

You do realize drafting is not just in line surely.

If it's a cross wind you are trying to avoid, you should be to the side as well. Chances are if the guy in front hits the brakes or moves suddenly in your direction you are going to do some damage to him.

We ask drivers to give us space and overtake safely, yet it's us that go and look for danger.

Maybe if it's danger what we need, why not ask drivers to overtake us with an inch to spare and try and left hook us occasionally...

Headhuunter

Maybe if it's danger what we need, why not ask drivers to overtake us with an inch to spare and try and left hook us occasionally...[/quote]

No need to ask, they do that anyway....

fnb1

used to draft buses in the bad old days when buses were both slower and mostly rear engined. Trick was to sit about 2inches from the nice low rear bumper roughly in the wheel tracks and listen to both teh engine tone and teh wheels crashing over any pothole or manhole cover. Soon as he lifts off the gas, get on the brakes, reactions were always quicker back then. The other way was to just let your front wheel rub on the rear bumper as he lifted off and the buses braking di its job for you too.

Would not even think about it nowadays though, don't do it kids!

Headhuunter

Buses still are rear engined!

PBo

Careful... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyeJU6U00wA

was watching that - and saw this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6vW4MXbdQk&NR=1

un -effing -believable!

PBo

edit:
getting obsessed now - watch this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Db-0dX4 ... re=related