Sorry but how does the TdF scoring work - Dumb ?

ashtons99

Sorry if this has been covered but Ive gone back 20 pages and cant find anything.

How can it be that Armstrong is 2nd to the yellow jersey when he appears not to have done much in the race whereas cavendish has won 2 stages but doesnt feature.

Can someone do me an idiots guide. I know there are green, polka and other coloured shirts but how does it all work.

iainf72

Because it's based on overall time.

Cavendish came 3'rd from last in the first stage losing something like 3 minutes.

Yellow jersey is the person who covers the route in the shortest amount of time. Stage wins not relevant really.

Green is for points from sprinting. Polka dot for best climber (scoring points over hill)

Anonymous

Hi mate -

Have a read through this, it explains about the different jerseys and how the timing works.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_de_France

It is possible (and has been done) to win the Tour de France without winning a stage.

afx237vi

The most important point :- When Cav wins a stage, the entire bunch is usually right behind him. Everyone is awarded the same time, so a sprinter will never get any closer to the yellow jersey, no matter how many stages he wins.

pat1cp

Cav went from 140th ish to 60th ish in the GC today. Another performance like that and he'll be in yellow tomorrow ;-)

ashtons99

Its becoming clearer. I guess the secret is to be a jack of all trades in order to win then? I.E the best all rounder has the best chance........and theres me practicing on every hill i can find in the hope of winning next year!!!!

thanks guys

Pokerface

ashtons99 wrote:

Its becoming clearer. I guess the secret is to be a jack of all trades in order to win then? I.E the best all rounder has the best chance........and theres me practicing on every hill i can find in the hope of winning next year!!!!

thanks guys

I think climbing is the most important ability, followed by time trialling. Tours are won and lost in the mountains and in time trials.

So yes - an all-rounder should win. That's the way the race is designed. Cancellara is a good time triallist, but can't climb well enough to win. And there are some guys that can fly up the mountains, but can't TT to maintain their lead.

Make sense?

Cumulonimbus

The overall (or GC) is won by the person with the best overall time. Some stages result in bigger time gaps and so the person who wins overall has to perform very well in these stages.

On flat stages, people are able to shelter behind the leader of the group. This makes it difficult to get away and gain time. So the person who wins has everybody right behind him and doesnt gain time. Ok, so stage 3 saw 25 people get 40 seconds. This could be critical at the end of the race but does not happen that often on flat stages. Other kinds of stages offer the opportunity for far bigger time gains.

In an individual time trial there is no sheltering (also called drafting) allowed. This means that the true strength of the riders over the course is exposed. Being able to turn in a good sprint at the end may look good but this will only get you a few seconds and you may already have lost minutes over a long TT course.

In the mountains the ability to draft is much reduced due to the slower speeds uphill and also you are battling against your own weight. As muscle weighs a lot, the normally more muscular sprinters suffer more than lighter riders. This means that the gaps grow into many minutes.

In a 3-week race you only have a certain amount of energy and cant give everything everyday. This means that the GC contenders have to try and prioritise the stages where there will be time-gaps. This typically means the time trials and mountain stages. If they give their all to trying to sprint for the finish on the flat stages then it means they have less energy left for those important stages.

Hope this helps/

andrew_s

In many races the winner of a stage is given a time bonus (about 10 seconds). The Tour used to give time bonuses until fairly recently, and the Giro still does.
In some of the shorter, flatter stage races these can be enough for someone to win, and in longer ones could lead to the yellow (pink) jersey changing hands several times in the early stages. The lack of any bonus seconds in this year's tour is one of the reasons Mark Cavendish didn't try any harder than necessary in the stage 1 time trial

Anonymous

Some good explanations on the BBC website too -

leisurely 3,500 km (or 2,175 mile) bike ride around France and neighbouring countries. That's roughly the distance from London to Cairo or Tel Aviv and an incredible 15m people line the route.

As many as 180 riders will set off from Monaco in 20 teams, but many will have dropped out by the time the race finishes on the Champs Elysees in Paris on 26 July.

By then, the survivors will have taken part in 21 gruelling stages with only two rest days to nurse their aching limbs.

They will average a staggering 40km/h (25 mph) over the course, often riding much faster than that. On mountain descents, some riders have claimed to have reached speeds of up to 110km/h (68 mph).


ARE ALL STAGES THE SAME?
No. There are four different types of stage, each with its own particular challenges.


TOUR BY NUMBERS

10: Fewest number of Tour finishers - in 1919
34: Most stage wins - by Eddy Merckx (pictured above left)
41.654: Fastest race average in km/h - by Lance Armstrong in 2005 (above right)
118,000: Total calories burned by Tour finisher (equivalent to 26 Mars Bars per day)
Flat:

Ten of this year's stages take place on "flat" roads. This doesn't mean they are without undulation (in fact, they often include climbs that would terrify a club cyclist). But they invariably feature most of the competitors riding together in a big "peloton" (or pack) for 200km (or 125 miles) and can end in one of two ways: with a breakaway victory by an individual or small group; or, typically, with a hair-raising bunch sprint.

Neither of these scenarios have much of an impact on the overall standings of the race because breakaways are always chased down by the peloton if they contain serious contenders and bunch sprints result in all or most of the field being given the same time for a stage.

Victory or a high place generates prize money and contributes towards the points competition. It also allows riders to pay back their sponsors with much-desired TV time which is vital for small teams and riders with little chance of glory elsewhere in the race for the big prizes.

Individual time trial: Every man against the clock. These are shorter stages of around 50 km. But lots of time is won and lost as Tour challenges flourish or falter. The last-placed rider starts first, followed two minutes later by the next highest, and this carries on until the race leader starts.

Team time trial: Every team against the clock. The clock stops on the fifth rider to cross the finish line. Traditionally longer than the individual time trial, they are the ultimate test of the strength of the team.

The nine riders rotate at the front of the line to keep the pace up. It requires incredible discipline and co-ordination to do it well and some teams will have spent many hours practising for it. Like the individual time trial, it may not win the Tour for an individual rider but a poor performance can certainly lose it, leaving them with minutes to make up elsewhere in the race.

Mountain: Most Tours are won in the mountains. And mountains come in all shapes and sizes, with climbs rated four, three, two, one or "hors" category, the latter being the steepest. Climbing from sea level to 2,000m (often more than once in a day), separates the men from the boys and one bad day can cost huge chunks of lost time.

The main contenders have to be able to stay with the specialist climbers on the ascents while the sprinters rely on the descents to stay within the cut-off time for the stage. Hill-top finishes tend to create big gaps in the field as they expose the differences between those who can climb and those battling to stay within the time limit for the stage.


THE WINNERS' JERSEYS
The biggest prize in cycling is a yellow jersey in Paris. This signifies overall victory in the Tour de France, an honour won seven times by Lance Armstrong and five by Jacques Anquetil, Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault and Miguel Indurain. There are also smaller awards to be won, each denoted by a different coloured jersey to help spectators spot the category leaders.


GUIDE TO TOUR LANGUAGE

Peloton: "Herd" or pack
Domestiques: "Servants" or team helpers
Grimpeur: Climber
Maillot Jaune: Yellow jersey
Voiture balai: Broom wagon - rounds up stragglers and boots them out of the race
Yellow: This is the jersey everyone wants. If you are in it, you are the overall race leader on aggregate time since the start of the Tour. It often changes backs a few times, particularly during the early flat stages of a Tour. But it normally finds its final resting place after a time trial or a gruelling hill-top finish in the Alps or Pyrenees. This year the fabled Mont Ventoux in Provence on the Tour's penultimate day is the one that the organisers hope will prove decisive. Tour champions need to be good at both climbing and time trialling.

Green: The points prize goes to the most consistent stage finisher and is normally worn by one of the best sprinters in the field. With a sliding scale of points available to the first finishers on any day, contenders for this jersey bunch at the front of the peloton for dangerous sprints on flat stages. They also need to show tactical acumen to stop their opponents picking up the additional points available at the intermediate sprints along the day's stage. They just try to survive the mountains.

Polka dot (red and white): Conversely, King of the Mountains contenders live for the climbs. They tend to be slimmer in build and bounce up slopes to pick up the points on offer to the first riders over every hill. This is the only jersey ever to have been won by a British rider, Robert Millar who earned the title in 1984 when he finished fourth in the overall classification.

White: This goes to the best-placed young (under-26) rider in the general classification.

Rainbow: This is not up for grabs in the Tour, but can be seen on the back of the World Road Race champion (if he's not wearing yellow, of course). Country champions also have the right to wear national instead of team colours.


606: DEBATE
Discuss the 2009 Tour de France on 606
In addition, there are three related awards available, one of them of dubious distinction:

Combativity: The cyclist who is deemed to have put in the bravest show on a stage wins the right to wear a white-on-red race number (as opposed to black-on-white).

Lanterne Rouge: This is the mocking moniker for the last-placed man in the overall classification, named after the red light shown on trains to mark the rearmost carriage. In a race where just finishing is a considerable achievement even being last is still an honour.

Team: There are 20 teams. After every stage, the times of the first three riders across the line from each team are added up and counted. The team with the lowest aggregate time in Paris wins the award.


BUT DO TEAMS REALLY MATTER?
You bet they do. The Tour de France is an individual event in the sense that every man pushes his own pedals to get around the course. But champions like Armstrong are quick to pay tribute to their support riders.

Team members who are not in the frame for major awards - or "domestiques" - do the donkey work that enables their leader to thrive, or sometimes simply to survive.

This may mean fetching and carrying water and supplies from the team car. It may mean providing a small slipstream (not permitted in an individual time trial) by spending a lot of time at the front of the peloton. Or it could even mean handing over their bike to allow their team leader to continue riding while they wait for a replacement.

A contender stripped of all of his team-mates in a breakaway or a mountain climb is very vulnerable.


IS THE TOUR HARD?
Just a bit. Many experts rate it the toughest of all major sporting events and participants burn up to 10,000 calories per day in their pursuit of glory.

But for the determined club cyclist, training for and riding a Tour de France stage is the thing of sporting dreams.

Failing that though, simply watch "le grand" spectacle from your own living room. Or from the streets of France. And prepare to be amazed

FJS

ashtons99 wrote:

Its becoming clearer. I guess the secret is to be a jack of all trades in order to win then? I.E the best all rounder has the best chance........and theres me practicing on every hill i can find in the hope of winning next year!!!!

thanks guys

The bottom line is that on the flat stages everyone finishes together (in the peloton), so nobody wins or loses time. Those stages are won by fast sprinters like Cavendish.

You will see on Friday and after that in the mountains the time differences are much much larger, as they are in Time Trials like the one last Saturday in Monaco, and the Team Time Trial yesterday.

So yes, to win the overall you have to be a jack of all trades of sorts, good in the mountains and good in the time trials, but you don't need to be good at sprinting (because that won't gain you much time). So Cavendish is good at something that will give him many stage wins, but is the only thing you don't really need to contest the overall: sprinting.

So to win the overall classement next year, keep practicing that hill climbing, add time trial training (riding fast for a long period on your own in awkward aerodynamic position), but don't bother with any sprinting

pat1cp

pat1cp wrote:

Cav went from 140th ish to 60th ish in the GC today. Another performance like that and he'll be in yellow tomorrow ;-)

Sorry, too much of the organic cider last night !! :oops: :oops:

ashtons99

I am now 100% clued up, hopefully others out there who were to embarrassed to ask are too!

Thats me focused now, Im off out for a pudding basin aerodynamic lid and some goats milk(mountain breed)

thanks again