Fit and forget Hydro Brakes

rowlers

Starting to get a bit fed p|ssed with my juicy 5s.
Back has always been a bit soggy feeling, after numerous bleeds. Today the leveer strted coming to the bar before it was even biting, so had to wind the reach right out to continue.
So looking for a decent replacement, budget up to a very max of £200.

What do you reckon, Hayes, Formula, Avid Elixirs (are they any better than the juicys?), Magura Marta, Hope? The Shimano XT ones look sweet!

cheers

nicklouse

any brake that is fitted correctly is fit and forget.

every time you play with your brakes you need to give them time to bed in again.

sounds like you need toget some one who can to look at your brakes.

will cost less than playing with new ones.

rowlers

Havn't touched them tho since they were fitted and bled.
Couldn't get the lever really solid on the back, after 4-5 bleeds, front is spot on.

I had a play with a few brakes in LBS after our ride today and every brake (even same models) felt different, with different bite points, some lever felt like mine does others were rock hard.

I'll give the back another bleed this week - any tips?
I normally follow the SRAM Yuotube vid. Other say this is a poor way to do it?

M6TTF

You should be able to get them both running well. Maybe check for leaks on the rear? As for upgrades, I got elixirs, miles better than my old juicys - really nice action

edmiddleton1988

nicklouse wrote:

any brake that is fitted correctly is fit and forget.

every time you play with your brakes you need to give them time to bed in again.

sounds like you need toget some one who can to look at your brakes.

will cost less than playing with new ones.

not all brakes are created equal. even a well set up pair of brakes can become rubbish. avids are well known for quickly deteriorating. often the pistons corrode on the juicys, the elixirs are slightly better but i feel that they have poor lever feel.

'bedding in' just refers to the process of bedding in a new set of pads, it will take a few rides to get the brakes to have some bite. after re-setting up of the brakes they should not need bedding again.

shimano brakes are the best for being fit and forget. other than a pad change when they wear out you should have to do nothing to them and they'll keep working great.

hope's are as good as shimano really but are more expensive, but if you can get some cheap that are in good nick go for it they have great feel, are really reliable, are dead simple so are easy to fix if you crash and damage one, and hope factory repair service is in this country so is fast and great.

of the rest, avoid hayes and formula, they are unreliable i find. magura used to be not so good but do seem much better these days so get a recent model.

hope that helps!

ed

RealMan

fit and forget, shimano xt.

for really good braking, and if done by someone who knows what theyre doing, fit and forget, avid elixirs.

bit over budget.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/09-Avid-Elixir-CR ... dZViewItem

bit under budget.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Avid-Elixir-R-Hyd ... dZViewItem

rowlers

cheers for all replies.

I'm going to give the J5s a bleed and good going over this week.

If they dont't sort themselves out I may be tempted by the Shimano XTs, thye look nice (v Important!!) and seem to come recommended!

Cheers

edmiddleton1988

RealMan wrote:

fit and forget, shimano xt.

for really good braking, and if done by someone who knows what theyre doing, fit and forget, avid elixirs.

sorry but i dont think the elixirs are fit and forget. at least not in the way that the xt would be. may well feel good at first and for the first 6-12 months, but i've seen lots that have seized up and had to be replaced.

ed

M6TTF

Regular cleaning maintenance is the key with all braking system, look after them and they'll work

edmiddleton1988

yes i agree again. but again, the xts would need less maintenance to keep them working perfectly than the avids

passout

I'd have to say Magura.

GSDog

edmiddleton1988 wrote:

avids are well known for quickly deteriorating. often the pistons corrode on the juicys, the elixirs are slightly better but i feel that they have poor lever feel.

edmiddleton1988 wrote:

avoid hayes and formula, they are unreliable

edmiddleton1988 wrote:

shimano brakes are the best for being fit and forget

edmiddleton1988, could you elaborate a bit more on that?
Have you tried all of these brakes out or is it just your opinion?
You've basically said Avid, Hayes and Formula brakes are all unreliable... where did you get that idea from?

I'm thinking about getting some Formula brakes so I'm curious to know how they are unreliable. I have heard nothing but good things about them.

realnumber 1

Appart from changing my pads a couple of times I've not had to touch my Formula K24's in the 18 months I've had them. Been a great brake.

nicklouse

edmiddleton1988 wrote:

yes i agree again. but again, the xts would need less maintenance to keep them working perfectly than the avids

my Avid 7s were fit and forget for the year i had them, and were for the few years after that the next owner had then, there was some play in the lever pivots after 3 years but that aint bad.

My formulas are still fit and forget.

My Avid Codes were a pain in 203mm format (very loud rear) but fine in 185mm on another bike.

My Diatec Sports are no problems. (ok bad transport broke a hose) but fine on the other bike.

My hope Minis needed a bleed the other year.

shimano not bothered with them after boiling the fluid a few times.

I hear they have got better now.

Oh and my Mono M4s were a right royal Pain in the butt. the Old M4s were OK ish but lacked the power i wanted.

So to sum up most brakes can be fit and forget (subject to regular maintenance/cleaning).

one thing that i hear is that tectro are now making the Avids (or some of them) which may have some impact on some comments on the OE fitted ones.

warrerj

realnumber 1 wrote:

Appart from changing my pads a couple of times I've not had to touch my Formula K24's in the 18 months I've had them. Been a great brake.

Snap !!

My mates that have Avids are having to get thier bled all the time. Add to that the fact that the K24's have a better feel and power (imo) and it's Formula every time for me (and more and more of my mates) !!!

edmiddleton1988

Been working in a workshop the past 7 years or so and from my experience shimano and hope are the least likely to be brought back with something wrong. In fact I've never had to fix a shimano, and a few hopes. Admittedly I don't have much experience with formula brakes, but have had trouble getting spares for them on the odd occasion.

Avids are fitted to many of the specialized bikes we sell, from juicy 3s on the lower end stuff to elixir raps on the higher stuff. Normally when these bikes come back for a service we have to adjust the brakes in some way, even if it is only a quick bleed and cleaning of the pistons. I thinkthat the levers often feel 'mushy', even from new, and that's with a bleed.

I've just bought myself a new bike, a rockhopper, and am swapping out the avids on it for hopes straight away, and the other 4 guys who ride mtb are using hopes. I realise we have the advantage of getting them cheap but they really are the best. And hope aftercare is second to none.

Having said all that, I am a little unfamiliar with the latest formula brakes so if ou get them from a shop that stocks parts and knows how to service them if anything does happen then they could be a good option.

I'd stick by my Hayes comment though, have been nothing but trouble in my experience.

To sum up:

hope
shimano
magura
formula
avid
Hayes

hope that helps you make a decision.

Ed

rowlers

There are some great comment here - cheers.
I've just bled the rear twice, no better, so I took the wheel out and give the lever a quick "nip", the travel has no reduced to something that I'd call acceptable.

They still have a mushy feel though and to be honeest I've lost total confidence in them. Brakes are something you need confidence in! I'm reluctant to buy something else though in case I'm not happy with them either - what a to do!

I'm tempted to go for the formulas or XTs.

cheers all

rowlers

This kinda rules out the XTs:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... s-08-22864

exactly what I don't want!!

pdid

Wouldn`t rule out the XT`s mine have been fantastic although they were set up by the LBS as they came with the bike. Far better than the Hope Mono Mini`s on the RL and no need to buy expensive bleed kits.

rowlers

I'm going back to the stroker trails I think!

Good review on here too!

alexj2233

edmiddleton1988, it think your being a little harsh to hayes brakes, my stroker trails have been work perfectly, for a fairly long time, after fitting they have needed no adjusting/maintanance at all

Maybe im just lucky but imo hayes arent that bad

Rockhopper

I have a Hope C2 i think it would be on the rear of my bike, i bought it in 2002 and apart from a change of pads (only once!!) i've never touched it. Still works perfectly. Got a Hope M4 twin pot on the front, thats now three years old and has never been touched (bar a pad change). The Stumpy came with Juicy 3's, the rear needed new pads after i wrecked a set becasue the thing siezed, took me hours to get the pistons moving again and resulted in a fair bit of damage to the caliper as well.
As brakes the Avids don't actually work that well either, they fade quite easily which is something the Hopes have never done.

Stu 74

Have you considered mechanical disc brakes?! :shock:

Check out the user reviews of Avid BB7 mechanical brakes on chainreaction:-

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=31347

Good reviews here too:-

http://www.mtbr.com/cat/brakes/disc-bra ... 07crx.aspx

People are saying they have the same power as hydro brakes but without the reliability problems you describe. Apparently they also have 'good modulation'. Plus they are cheaper and (I'm guessing) lighter too!

Definitely worth a punt in my opinion.

Stu

rowlers

Not considered it tbh, but don't like the idea of them! Brake snob maybe but prob won't be going down that route.

Cheers

edit: they do get pretty good reviews though eh!!

stevieboy

Having owned Hope, Avid, Formula, Shimano & Hayes brakes I would say the Hope's and the Formula's have been the most reliable. Those are the only two brake brands on our four bike's now.

Was dreading having Hope's but just had to try them, best thing I ever did. The only problem I had was have a bolt pull through the mini x2 pro lever, but Hope sorted it for free and had the brake back within 3 days of sending it.

To counter that, I had a Hayes brake take 2 weeks to be fixed under warranty (simply a leaky piston seal) which cost me an epic and a normal peaks ride. Plus the brake nearly killed me flying down Jacobs Ladder. They were promptly swapped for Tech M4's.

But there's always a bad set just around the corner, regardless of the brand. Every manufacturer produces friday afternoon specials, or they make the mistake of switching materials suppliers etc.

lawman

cable brakes are shite. i had them for 2 yearswhen i first started and they just fell apart. the pads never lasted in wet, the cables kept dying and the stopping power ..... well there was none :shock:

my maguras are good atm but they did go through a spell of not working then suddenly came back after i just left them :? rather confusing and i still question how they managed to get fixed. id go formula tbh they have loads of power, great modulation and are pretty reliable now

rowlers

I'm fairly certain I'll be getting the stroker trails, seem to get good reviews everywhere. Just trying to find them at a good price!!
Best so far is CRC- £160ish for 180/160.

The Spiderman

I have the older version Shimano XT brakes.Had them for 2 years and only ever replaced the pads.

rowlers

Merlin have a good deal on Oro K18s too, £150 for the complete set, still in a dilemma!!

Any one know what the hose lengths are on Strokers? Have mailed CRC but know reply as yet

yoohoo999

my mate has just bought the Oro K18's from Merlin. That really is an excellent deal.

Personally, I always feel that Hope has the most fit and forget power. Never really had any major issues, and on the odd occassion I break something, I just pop it in a box back to Hope.

I'm running Tech M4's on my current steed and I forget how easy Hope's are to bleed compared to other brakes.

For example, I've just bought some Avid Codes for a new build (see, I'm not just a Hope fanboy! ) and tried to get all the parts I needed for a bleed kit. HAVE YOU SEEN THE AVID BLEED KITS?

Honestly, I know surgeons that use less equipment when performing open heart surgery.

My Tech M4's need a bit of waste tube that I bought from Halfords (motorbike section) for £2. 10 minutes to bleed the brake, job done. No expensive kits, no faffing about, no mess. Consistent results every time. That's how it should be.

Incidentally, Harry Hill Cycles are selling Avid Bleed Kits (the proper branded ones) for £25 (as opposed to £35 everywhere else).

dave_hill

Hayes every time. The only thing I've ever done with mine is change the pads and changed the fluid once, and I didn't really need to do that but it was so simple it wasn't true.

I have Avids on my Orange and I don't like them at all - I'll probably keep them until they need attention then I'll ditch them for Hayes.