Lots and lots on Astana nearly folding
Including who would've taken over, where Berster might have ended up (surprising to the point of not being believable)
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/31510106/ ... de_france/
Have a butchers.
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/31510106/ ... de_france/
Have a butchers.
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
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Significantly, the Astana team source said, Garmin was said to be not only signing Contador, but also his Astana teammates Benjamin Noval, Sergio Paulinho, and bringing aboard Contador’s preferred mechanic and soigneur from Astana.
Damn Kazakhs! That would have been amazing.0 -
These are the people Contador can rely on, basically he's isolated within the team and only feels supported by these riders.
I'd heard that Felt bikes were on the way and that Contador was going to ride the Spanish TT champs specifically so he could test his new bike in a race before the Tour, he hadn't been down to ride. But it was just a wild rumour, sounded too fanciful.
News that he was talking to Vaughters will only make Armstrong's blood boil.0 -
Team Sky still in with a shout of getting Conty then.0
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That is way over the top -- AC to Garmin. I wish.
From one ugly kit to another.0 -
LA should've stayed retired.
Garmin and AC? Have to be kidding me, no way would JV touch a rider with a dope cloud. *cough* Millar *cough*0 -
I'd be astonished if they have even contemplated it. Their stance on doping is clear and Brailsford has gone on the record to say they won't sign riders with links to doping. Contador's involvement with Puerto surely rules him out on this basis.jimmythecuckoo wrote:Team Sky still in with a shout of getting Conty then.0 -
I would have said he was joining Valverde's team, Caisse. After his assistance in the Dauphine, Contador would be team leader for tdf, and Valverde for the Vuelta?
This is going to make the tdf interesting. Will Contador follow team orders if LA is on top form, or will he do what Roche/Hinault etc have done and ride for himself?
It will be interesting to see the final make up of Astana at the tdf, how many Spaniards on team and how many LA fanboys.0 -
If Garmin were to take on AC, Noval, Paulinho and the mechanic and soigneur from Astana then the credibility that JV has built up over the last years would be blown out of the water. This is a rider who has riden for liberty seguros, Discovery and Astana and was the only one to hang onto the wheels of the chicken in 2007, so although he has not tested positive, there is always a "guilty by association" possiblity.
Why would he go to Garmin, has he had a road to damascus moment like Millar? Unless blowing to sh*t in Paris-Nice was that moment, when he found out he had no team, no support and no energy bars.
He would more likely go to Caisse.
I wonder if he brought his mechanic and soigneur, would he also bring the Disco team motor bikes?0 -
intothe12 wrote:If Garmin were to take on AC, Noval, Paulinho and the mechanic and soigneur from Astana then the credibility that JV has built up over the last years would be blown out of the water. This is a rider who has riden for liberty seguros, Discovery and
?
so has vdv.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
JV came out and said that the Slipstream crew (and include VDV) was made up of young wee lads, old pro's who turned a new leaf (millar) and guys who may or may not have had a questionable past (VDV)....AC is jumping ship not for ethical reasons.0
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andyp wrote:
I'd be astonished if they have even contemplated it. Their stance on doping is clear and Brailsford has gone on the record to say they won't sign riders with links to doping. Contador's involvement with Puerto surely rules him out on this basis.jimmythecuckoo wrote:Team Sky still in with a shout of getting Conty then.
That's a pretty small pool of riders to choose from then...0 -
Astana is far from a cohesive unit. Although the strongest team in the race on paper, with Armstrong, Contador, Leipheimer and Andreas Kloden all confirmed to start, their internal divisions could fracture the team and cost them the Tour de France.
Oh pleeeease !
It would be sooo good to see Bruyneel's and Armstron's plans unravel dramatically.
Is it any wonder that the Kazakh's aren't too keen on shoving their sponsor money into the team when even this piece is headlined
"Armstrong's team in turmoil as Tour looms"
Astana was formed as a Kazakh patriotic thing around Vino, but has become Team Armstrong...0 -
I don't think you could have a team with LA in it that didn't end up being Team Armstrong. For starters that is how he won 7 Tours.
Clearly in real terms it isn't Team Armstrong though as both JB and LA have ended up there after the fact and not in total control of things. It isn't Postal or Discovery in that sense and Contador is the elephant in the room.
You can't imagine Astana not using Contador as their GC man in the Tour, but then that'd mean a 7 time winner acting as domestique which with JB and LA you can't see either....hours of fun.0 -
andy_wrx wrote:Astana is far from a cohesive unit. Although the strongest team in the race on paper, with Armstrong, Contador, Leipheimer and Andreas Kloden all confirmed to start, their internal divisions could fracture the team and cost them the Tour de France.
Oh pleeeease !
It would be sooo good to see Bruyneel's and Armstron's plans unravel dramatically.
Is it any wonder that the Kazakh's aren't too keen on shoving their sponsor money into the team when even this piece is headlined
"Armstrong's team in turmoil as Tour looms"
Astana was formed as a Kazakh patriotic thing around Vino, but has become Team Armstrong...
You know - I can't see why the Kazakh's WOULDN'T be happy to shovel their money into a team that is the most talked about on the planet. The team sports arguably some of the best riders in the world, they have a real shot of winning the Tour, they have Armstrong (love him or hate him - you can't deny his draw when it comes to getting attention).
If the aim of a sponsor is to raise their public profile and get awareness for their 'brand', then you can't really do better than Astana at the present moment.
True - they aren't exactly helping out the Kazakh riders at the moment...0 -
And let's not forget Garmin also employ Floyd Landis's analyst from 2006, Allen Lim of "thermal regulation" fame.0
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Uh?Le Blaireau (1)0
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Pokerface wrote:You know - I can't see why the Kazakh's WOULDN'T be happy to shovel their money into a team that is the most talked about on the planet. The team sports arguably some of the best riders in the world, they have a real shot of winning the Tour, they have Armstrong (love him or hate him - you can't deny his draw when it comes to getting attention).
If the aim of a sponsor is to raise their public profile and get awareness for their 'brand', then you can't really do better than Astana at the present moment.
True - they aren't exactly helping out the Kazakh riders at the moment...
You know - I think I told you the answer in my earlier post, but obviously you didn't spot itandy_wrx wrote:Astana was formed as a Kazakh patriotic thing around Vino, but has become Team Armstrong...
What is this brand you see in the media - is it Astana, the Kazakh cycling team, sponsored by Kazakh Railways, Kazakh petroleum, Kazakh mining, etc ?
No, it's Astana, 'Lance Armstrong's team' !
The Kazakh's put their money in for Vino and a Kazakh team.
Had they wanted Lance and Bruyneel, plus Levi, Alberto, et al they could have replaced Discovery as sponsors of Tailwind...0 -
Interesting response from Armstrong when one of his Twitter followers asked him about the article; "Just read this. JL [Joe Lindsey, the author] may not be far off on this (for once). I'm choosing 2 ignore and remove myself from drama. TdF - hard enough.."
Not what I expected him to say.Le Blaireau (1)0 -
andy_wrx wrote:What is this brand you see in the media - is it Astana, the Kazakh cycling team, sponsored by Kazakh Railways, Kazakh petroleum, Kazakh mining, etc ?
No, it's Astana, 'Lance Armstrong's team' !
The Kazakh's put their money in for Vino and a Kazakh team.
Had they wanted Lance and Bruyneel, plus Levi, Alberto, et al they could have replaced Discovery as sponsors of Tailwind...
I have a feeling that you are spot on andy_wrx. I might go further and say that I think that the Kazakhs are rather less than happy with the direction JB is taking the team. And although another GT win would be great, they want to see Kazakhs riding, even in a domestique role.
An interview with Andre Zeits, the only Kazakh in the Giro squad was revealing in that he found it very difficult to fit in to the team as his English is not that good. But by the end of the tour he was able to get by, at the dinner table! To his credit the 22 year old, finished his first GT in 35th place, 7th in the young rider competition. The team is being funded for his benefit and riders like him.
The sponsors are not really getting what they are paying for.0 -
2007 TdF Astana roster
Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz)
Antonio Colom Mas (Spa)
Maxim Iglinskiy (Kaz)
Serguei Ivanov (Rus)
Andrey Kashechkin (Kaz)
Andreas Klöden (Ger)
Daniel Navarro Garcia (Spa)
Grégory Rast (Swi)
Paolo Savoldelli (Ita)
Hardly bursting with Kazakh talent. Yes, there are three riders, but two of those are not able to ride this year, due to hand/cookie jar issues. So the Kazakh money men (along with Vino and Kash) only have themselves to blame. Furthermore, if they don't like the direction Bruyneel is taking the team in, they can get rid of him, surely?Le Blaireau (1)0 -
DaveyL wrote:Hardly bursting with Kazakh talent. Yes, there are three riders, but two of those are not able to ride this year, due to hand/cookie jar issues. So the Kazakh money men (along with Vino and Kash) only have themselves to blame. Furthermore, if they don't like the direction Bruyneel is taking the team in, they can get rid of him, surely?
The problem is the 2009 TdF team is in danger of having no Kazakhs at all. This 'Vote the most deserving rider' thing is nothing to do with democrasy, but all to do with abdication of responsibility for selecting a Kazakh free team, and then having to explain it to the sponsors.
JB/LA do not want to compromise the strength of the team, which is fair, but they are involved with the wrong team.
As for JB he will leave before he is 'got rid of'.0 -
The stated intention of Astana when it was launched was to use the success of Vinokourov and Kashechkin to attract young Kazakh riders into the sport and use the team as a vehicle for them to learn their trade. That seems to have been lost in the JB era. I'd not be surprised if he's not at the helm next season, assuming the Kazakh companies want to continue with the venture.DaveyL wrote:2007 TdF Astana roster
Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz)
Antonio Colom Mas (Spa)
Maxim Iglinskiy (Kaz)
Serguei Ivanov (Rus)
Andrey Kashechkin (Kaz)
Andreas Klöden (Ger)
Daniel Navarro Garcia (Spa)
Grégory Rast (Swi)
Paolo Savoldelli (Ita)
Hardly bursting with Kazakh talent. Yes, there are three riders, but two of those are not able to ride this year, due to hand/cookie jar issues. So the Kazakh money men (along with Vino and Kash) only have themselves to blame. Furthermore, if they don't like the direction Bruyneel is taking the team in, they can get rid of him, surely?0 -
andyp wrote:
The stated intention of Astana when it was launched was to use the success of Vinokourov and Kashechkin to attract young Kazakh riders into the sport and use the team as a vehicle for them to learn their trade. That seems to have been lost in the JB era. I'd not be surprised if he's not at the helm next season, assuming the Kazakh companies want to continue with the venture.DaveyL wrote:2007 TdF Astana roster
Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz)
Antonio Colom Mas (Spa)
Maxim Iglinskiy (Kaz)
Serguei Ivanov (Rus)
Andrey Kashechkin (Kaz)
Andreas Klöden (Ger)
Daniel Navarro Garcia (Spa)
Grégory Rast (Swi)
Paolo Savoldelli (Ita)
Hardly bursting with Kazakh talent. Yes, there are three riders, but two of those are not able to ride this year, due to hand/cookie jar issues. So the Kazakh money men (along with Vino and Kash) only have themselves to blame. Furthermore, if they don't like the direction Bruyneel is taking the team in, they can get rid of him, surely?
Oh come on you can't miss out the really good bit in the original aim of Astana: to act as a symbol for the youth of Kazakhstan that you didn't have to turn to drugs when you could live a healthy, muscular and energetic life such as that of a professional cyclist. Kazakhstan has a very high level of drug dependency.
There is no emoticon which covers the reaction to this bit in light of what has happened since. Dognabbit.0 -
The irony hasn't been missed leguape.
But there was nothing wrong with the original aim?
And it certainly wasn't for the further glorificaton of Lance Armstrong.0 -
Well it was clear from day 1 of Bruyneel's tenure that wasn't going to happen - look who he brought in. It's a bit rich to start moaning now.Le Blaireau (1)0
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A lot of business will be done during the tour regarding riders' future teams, I'm sure.0
