Y DO U NEED 2 B @ THE FRONT
Comments
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Mikelyons wrote:To me one of the most important advantages of being at the front of the queue is that most times you can react faster to the lights and get 'into gear' and moving quicker than those behind you. That then gives you enough time to adopt the best position for the road ahead.
I personally find that it's much easier to get going and get into the right road position when I'm a couple of cars back than sat at the very front of the queue.0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:
Then unless its clear and safe to filter you wait FIVE goes.Mikelyons wrote:And if it takes FIVE goes to get through ?To me one of the most important advantages of being at the front of the queue is that most times you can react faster to the lights and get 'into gear' and moving quicker than those behind you.
This is an absolute myth. There is no way a person on a bike can move off faster than the combustion engine powered car. The only reason why a bike appears to move off faster than a car is because:
a) The person in the motorised vehicle has chosen to let the bike go.
b) The person in the motorised vehicle is simply moving off slowly.
If you doubt it, try moving off quicker than my Uncle's V6 Audi A3. :roll: Or my Fathers 3lt BMW 5 Series or my 1.4 Seat.... :roll:
Everytime a bike appears to have moved off faster than me, when I'm in a car, its because I've let them.
That said, circumstance b) does happen an awful lot and if you can get level with the guy in front well before the lights change so he can see you, then the chances are you will be across the junction before him. I do however agree with you that you can't count on that, because you might have the bloke who is already at the biting point, knowing the timing of the lights to perfection and on a mission to get somewhere quick, where that somewhere is an immediate left hand turn. As I said, what I do is generally work my way up to the penultimate car, sit alongside his bonnet, then go at the next green and if everyone passes me again, its no big shakes for me or for them.0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:
Then unless its clear and safe to filter you wait FIVE goes.Mikelyons wrote:And if it takes FIVE goes to get through ?To me one of the most important advantages of being at the front of the queue is that most times you can react faster to the lights and get 'into gear' and moving quicker than those behind you.
This is an absolute myth. There is no way a person on a bike can move off faster than the combustion engine powered car. The only reason why a bike appears to move off faster than a car is because:
a) The person in the motorised vehicle has chosen to let the bike go.
b) The person in the motorised vehicle is simply moving off slowly.
If you doubt it, try moving off quicker than my Uncle's V6 Audi A3. :roll: Or my Fathers 3lt BMW 5 Series or my 1.4 Seat.... :roll:
Everytime a bike appears to have moved off faster than me, when I'm in a car, its because I've let them.
inertia, once going a car will pull away strongly, but for the short dash across the junction a bike can be quick off the mark, that doesn't mean many aren't quite a lot are in too high a gear and are trying to clip in.
but frankly thats a non issue most of the time as traffic bar the odd motorbike sets off at quite a sloth like pace, seemingly more so more central you go.0 -
salsajake wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:<< snip >> There is no way a person on a bike can move off faster than the combustion engine powered car. The only reason why a bike appears to move off faster than a car is because:
a) The person in the motorised vehicle has chosen to let the bike go.
b) The person in the motorised vehicle is simply moving off slowly.
If you doubt it, try moving off quicker than my Uncle's V6 Audi A3. :roll: Or my Fathers 3lt BMW 5 Series or my 1.4 Seat.... :roll:
Everytime a bike appears to have moved off faster than me, when I'm in a car, its because I've let them.
That said, circumstance b) does happen an awful lot and if you can get level with the guy in front well before the lights change so he can see you, then the chances are you will be across the junction before him.
Getting level with a car isn't safe or sensible. Presumably you're on the left and therefore undertaking him - something you're not supposed to do.
Secondly you're coming up from his blind spot and he can't see you so if he turns left or banks left (for any number of reasons, car turning right perhaps, something in the road) he is doing so because he didn't see you. Being level with a car is never a safe place to be. Always be either infront or behind and only overtake (like when in a car) when its safe to do so.
As being level with a car at a junction, what if the car suddenly turns left. :roll:Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
roger merriman wrote:
inertia, once going a car will pull away strongly, but for the short dash across the junction a bike can be quick off the mark, that doesn't mean many aren't quite a lot are in too high a gear and are trying to clip in.
but frankly thats a non issue most of the time as traffic bar the odd motorbike sets off at quite a sloth like pace, seemingly more so more central you go.
OK, I'm not the most grammatically gifted and my spelling and sentence structure is somewhat attrocious and yes I do champion against the pedant.
But I didn't understand the overarching point you just posted or the general gist of it. I'm sorry, I tried, I read it forwards, backwards and sideways. I'm sorry.
Car's are faster than bicycles off the mark if driven properly. - Not sure that helps or if that was what you were talking about...Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:salsajake wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:<< snip >> There is no way a person on a bike can move off faster than the combustion engine powered car. The only reason why a bike appears to move off faster than a car is because:
a) The person in the motorised vehicle has chosen to let the bike go.
b) The person in the motorised vehicle is simply moving off slowly.
If you doubt it, try moving off quicker than my Uncle's V6 Audi A3. :roll: Or my Fathers 3lt BMW 5 Series or my 1.4 Seat.... :roll:
Everytime a bike appears to have moved off faster than me, when I'm in a car, its because I've let them.
That said, circumstance b) does happen an awful lot and if you can get level with the guy in front well before the lights change so he can see you, then the chances are you will be across the junction before him.
Getting level with a car isn't safe or sensible. Presumably you're on the left and therefore undertaking him - something you're not supposed to do.
Secondly you're coming up from his blind spot and he can't see you so if he turns left or banks left (for any number of reasons, car turning right perhaps, something in the road) he is doing so because he didn't see you. Being level with a car is never a safe place to be. Always be either infront or behind and only overtake (like when in a car) when its safe to do so.
As being level with a car at a junction, what if the car suddenly turns left. :roll:
no, what I said is if you can get level with him well before the lights have changed. So he is stopped, there is traffic hammering across in front and there are clearly a few seconds at least of the sequence to go. When I say level, I mean front wheel is on the white line, so you are in his field of vision - unless he just wants to drive over the top of you, which he could do wherever you were in the queue. I would usually, if doing that, double check the indicator next to me when I arrive at it and eyeball the driver too. 100% of the time, they are looking back at me0 -
salsajake wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:salsajake wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:<< snip >> There is no way a person on a bike can move off faster than the combustion engine powered car. The only reason why a bike appears to move off faster than a car is because:
a) The person in the motorised vehicle has chosen to let the bike go.
b) The person in the motorised vehicle is simply moving off slowly.
If you doubt it, try moving off quicker than my Uncle's V6 Audi A3. :roll: Or my Fathers 3lt BMW 5 Series or my 1.4 Seat.... :roll:
Everytime a bike appears to have moved off faster than me, when I'm in a car, its because I've let them.
That said, circumstance b) does happen an awful lot and if you can get level with the guy in front well before the lights change so he can see you, then the chances are you will be across the junction before him.
Getting level with a car isn't safe or sensible. Presumably you're on the left and therefore undertaking him - something you're not supposed to do.
Secondly you're coming up from his blind spot and he can't see you so if he turns left or banks left (for any number of reasons, car turning right perhaps, something in the road) he is doing so because he didn't see you. Being level with a car is never a safe place to be. Always be either infront or behind and only overtake (like when in a car) when its safe to do so.
As being level with a car at a junction, what if the car suddenly turns left. :roll:
no, what I said is if you can get level with him well before the lights have changed.
Right.
Again I must point out to you that being level with any vehicle isn't the safest place to be.
In terms of space, if you are infront of the car or behind you have more space to move off, wobble, fall, pedal and any number of things.
Secondly if you are behind the car you are front of the car behind you meaning that they can SEE you clearly. If you are beside a car all hunkered up between it and a curb how is anyone else going to see you there. You are not making yourself as visible as possible lined up beside or level with another vehicle.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:roger merriman wrote:
inertia, once going a car will pull away strongly, but for the short dash across the junction a bike can be quick off the mark, that doesn't mean many aren't quite a lot are in too high a gear and are trying to clip in.
but frankly thats a non issue most of the time as traffic bar the odd motorbike sets off at quite a sloth like pace, seemingly more so more central you go.
OK, I'm not the most grammatically gifted and my spelling and sentence structure is somewhat attrocious and yes I do champion against the pedant.
But I didn't understand the overarching point you just posted or the general gist of it. I'm sorry, I tried, I read it forwards, backwards and sideways. I'm sorry.
Car's are faster than bicycles off the mark if driven properly. - Not sure that helps or if that was what you were talking about...
essentially bikes can pull off very fast most don't nor are set up so, Clipless pedals are one culprit. and being in too high a gear is another common one.
but the other point is cars on the whole do not pull away fast, so that at least for the short duration of across the lights one should beable with ease match pace with the rest of traffic.0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:salsajake wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:salsajake wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:<< snip >> There is no way a person on a bike can move off faster than the combustion engine powered car. The only reason why a bike appears to move off faster than a car is because:
a) The person in the motorised vehicle has chosen to let the bike go.
b) The person in the motorised vehicle is simply moving off slowly.
If you doubt it, try moving off quicker than my Uncle's V6 Audi A3. :roll: Or my Fathers 3lt BMW 5 Series or my 1.4 Seat.... :roll:
Everytime a bike appears to have moved off faster than me, when I'm in a car, its because I've let them.
That said, circumstance b) does happen an awful lot and if you can get level with the guy in front well before the lights change so he can see you, then the chances are you will be across the junction before him.
Getting level with a car isn't safe or sensible. Presumably you're on the left and therefore undertaking him - something you're not supposed to do.
Secondly you're coming up from his blind spot and he can't see you so if he turns left or banks left (for any number of reasons, car turning right perhaps, something in the road) he is doing so because he didn't see you. Being level with a car is never a safe place to be. Always be either infront or behind and only overtake (like when in a car) when its safe to do so.
As being level with a car at a junction, what if the car suddenly turns left. :roll:
no, what I said is if you can get level with him well before the lights have changed.
Right.
Again I must point out to you that being level with any vehicle isn't the safest place to be.
In terms of space, if you are infront of the car or behind you have more space to move off.
Secondly if you are behind the car you are front of the car behind you meaning that they can SEE you clearly. If you are beside a car all hunkered up between it and a curb how is anyone else going to see you there. You are not making yourself as visible as possible lined up beside or level with another vehicle.
Nah. I'm sat by his front light, if he is turning left he is going to have to look right through me, or not actually look where he is going. I do accept that it is not the safest place to be, but I don't agree, as you seem to be suggesting, that it is unacceptably dangerous to be there (sorry if you don't mean that, but its how it is coming across). The only time I have ever been forced left is by people who have just overtaken me whilst traffic is moving and then turned left, never from a standing start. That is akin to starting further back down the line of traffic, which you seem to be advocating.
The other risk with sitting back behind the first guy, when you are able to get right up to the front so that he can (nay, SHOULD) see you is that if he turns left, and everyone else does afterwards, you are left caught out at the apex of the junction with everyone in the line of traffic cutting you up and leaving you dangling in your cleats or hopping for the kerb, where you will probably then be caught out by the next light sequence.
As I say, I've never had any problems with it, if I can't guarantee getting to the red light before it turns green, I'll wait behind the first guy, if I can definitely make it to the front, I'll get there, park next to his headlight and glance across to see if he has seen me, then as soon as the lights go on the change, and traffic is out of the way, I'm off.0 -
The other risk with sitting back behind the first guy, when you are able to get right up to the front so that he can (nay, SHOULD) see you is that if he turns left, and everyone else does afterwards, you are left caught out at the apex of the junction with everyone in the line of traffic cutting you up and leaving you dangling in your cleats or hopping for the kerb, where you will probably then be caught out by the next light sequence.
Sit in the middle of the lane between the back of the front car and the front of the second one, they can't go round you, you don't get trapped and are safe.Not climber, not sprinter, not rouleur0 -
Stuey01 wrote:The other risk with sitting back behind the first guy, when you are able to get right up to the front so that he can (nay, SHOULD) see you is that if he turns left, and everyone else does afterwards, you are left caught out at the apex of the junction with everyone in the line of traffic cutting you up and leaving you dangling in your cleats or hopping for the kerb, where you will probably then be caught out by the next light sequence.
Sit in the middle of the lane between the back of the front car and the front of the second one, they can't go round you, you don't get trapped and are safe.
+1!
That's all I've been trying to say!Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
I think to an extent it's human nature to get to the front and, because I'm on a bike I can.
I often find that cars don't pull away at lights quickly and I can get a good 20 yards ahead before they start to move - I realise that cars are able to pull away quicker than me but most don't either because the driver isn't concentrating, isn't in gear or whatever. Also on many junctions here there's a railing near the traffic lights, very handy to lean on and stay "clipped in" and ready to go.
In fact in Cardiff there is a cycle only zone at the front many traffic light controlled junctions - so our lovely Council must want me to be at the front too - don't they?
I agree that it's best to either be infront of a vehicle and visible to the driver or behind, no mans land is not a good place to be especially with buses and HGV's who are prone to forgetting to indicate left before deciding to turn....occasionally
Hey Mr Lorry driver, I reckon if your truck was under a foot wide you'd edge to the front too
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