Cove Handjob or Cotic Soul or...?

Wacky Racer

Hi all,

I am going to build my next hardtail and hope to find some useful help on here.

This bike will be used as a "do it all" bike, XC and trails, it needs to climb well, but be able to take the hits downhill, but I am not into big drops/jumps, etc, more technically challenging than brute force. I want this for the stuff I can do straight from my front doorstep, which includes a 2 mile road ride mainly uphill to my starting point, one mile down the canal towpath which is mud based and bumpy, then 5 miles through woodland, lots of tree stumps and roots, pretty muddy because of a lack of sunlight, and very hilly both ways, then around 3 miles through fields and bridle paths which is mostly downhill, followed by a quick half mile blast downhill through the middle of a cornfield. My journey home is all hills on the road.

Sorry for the lengthy detail but I want you to be sure of what this bikes main use will be. However, I also get up to "Walk the Dog" at Cannock which is obviously more technical, hence the reason for a do it all bike.

I have been contemplating buying the Cove Handjob frame and building from there, up to 130mm fork travel, maybe Rockshox Revelations. Does anyone have any experience of this frame, warts and all, and will this be ideal for my needs? I know the Handjob is pretty stiff which will suit the quicker riding I do, but obviously worried about the penalties I might pay downhill so I am happy to listen to alternatives as well.

I have seen the frame for as little as £390ish, and that is in a choice of pretty cool colours, including white and orange.

Shorty12

How about a Ragely blue pig? http://shop.18bikes.co.uk/products.php? ... nge_Skwosh)_


Or


http://www.on-one-shop.co.uk/acatalog/O ... 56_30.html

blister pus

Blue pig and mmmBop are designed to run between 130 - 150 and optimised for 140 travel. Might be a bit much for what you want, although they certainly fit the criteria.

Wacky Racer

Shorty12 - Ragley Blue Pig is a little on the heavy side, coming in a full pound up on the Cove. Can't say I know much about the On One, doesn't look in the same weight and travel class as the Cove though.

blister pus

456 with 120 mm fork would be a great option for what you want. Not as burly as a blue pig (from the same designer) but you don't need it to be and great value.

Shorty12

Wacky Racer wrote:

Shorty12 - Ragley Blue Pig is a little on the heavy side, coming in a full pound up on the Cove. Can't say I know much about the On One, doesn't look in the same weight and travel class as the Cove though.

They were options :P

Wacky Racer

I noticed, when looking at the Blue Pig, a link to a Cotic Soul, comes in at 4.2lb on a 17.5 inch frame and looks spot on for 100mm to 130mm travel, a tad expensive at £470, but worth consideration.

http://shop.18bikes.co.uk/products.php?plid=m5b0s433p73

The Cove, for best price at £394 is at Winstanley, see link below.

http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/produ ... b_XC_Frame

There is a theme going on here, it's steel! Definitely my preference.

So it's Cove Handjob v Cotic Soul for now, unless someone can throw something else into the mix? But most of all would hope someone reads this who has experience of either.

blister pus

I've spent time on a 456 and Soul both demo'd and ridden someone's from the local bike club as I'm in the same boat as you. The Soul is a great ride, period (I'll let Northwind wax lyrical). Would i pay the extra for a Soul over a 456? - well that depends. I'd rather spend all day on a Soul than a 456 and I'd rather have a 456 for roughhousing. Nothing you've described so far though warrants anything more than a 456 with 120 mm travel on a decent fork but only you'll know that after you've demo'd the bikes for yourself. All will do exactly what you want, some more expensively than others but it comes down to what ride you prefer having ridden them personally.

Wacky Racer

blister pus - I did look at the 456, mainly because the reviews I've read are all good, I know it is considered a good frame for both rough and XC, I wasn't sure about the weight, I believe it comes in at just over 5lb on a medium frame which is almost 1lb more than the Soul, but I can find the 456 considerably cheaper. Not sure if that weight is accurate though as I can't find an official weight.

Whilst I don't want to chuck money away, the Soul is pricy, this bike is going to last a while so don't mind pushing to the extra. I guess you are right, try both and see what is best for me, but I am leaning towards the Soul or Handjob at the moment.

I have a new Revelation fork sat doing nothing so was going to use those, I reckon they'd be a good match up.

blister pus

I think test riding a Soul is a must if you want to splash the cash it's a really, really nice ride. I can't speak about the Handjob but they have their fans too. I'm waiting to demo both the Blue Pig and mmmBop before I make any firm decision, I've pretty much earmarked a burly Blue Pig as my go to bike but I need to check out the mmmBop (alloy and 3.7 lbs) before any firm decision. If neither of those two work out as i anticipate then I'll stump up the extra cash for the Soul, while it's a different kind of frame and does a different job (to the 456 and Blue Pig / mmmBop) it'd still fit into what I do. That's about where i am.

Northwind has a Soul / revelation combination he'll be along to act all love sick n stuff.

Wacky Racer

The only criticisms I can find on the Handjob is the poor quality of decals, apparently they have been prone to come off, although not sure whether they have fixed that problem. But I'm led to believe the frame is superb. I believe that the Soul can be bought with the wrap decals under the finish, so may wear better.

The colours look pretty interesting on the Soul too, the Custard looks great, but the Builders Tea and the Espresso look interestingly different, but would want to see some colours in the flesh before making my mind up. The only one I wouldn't want is the rather bland looking black, although I'm sure some would like it.

I've got to find me somewhere to test one out, there are a lack of places available where I live near to Worcester, so will probably have to travel further afield.

blister pus

remember you can't see colours when the bike's sh!tted up to the eyeballs and the sooner the bike takes a dent and a knock the better - stops you clucking round it like a mother hen. And black sure hides a lot when it's weathered.

You need to be contacting Cotic and finding out where the nearest demo place is to you, same goes for any of them you short list really, you'll find places like Cotic really helpful and friendly.

Wacky Racer

I have an aversion to black, the current HT is black, so want a change. Plus I reckon custard will look pretty cool with mud on it.

I've got a few days off soon, so going to contact Cotic and see where I can see/feel, maybe even ride in the flesh. Quite happy to travel so shouldn't be a problem. I need to get on one because of sizing anyway. The Soul is long and short, so could be tricky getting it right. Normally I would go with a 17.5 to 18", but with this frame being longer I maybe able to get away with a 16", which will give me a more normal length and something more manouverable, but will have to see.

paul.skibum

I have a Cove HJ which I have owned and loved for 5 years - its a terrific ride and do anything bike. It accelerates fast, puts the power down well, stays pretty composed, is tough, and generally a great bike. Mine is old generation which only took 100mm forks and I run it with MX Comps - never had a problem with the bike being not enough for me and it sounds like we ride pretty similar stuff.

I have ridden it in the Alps (2 weeks and one season), the Peaks, Welsh trail centres, Chiltern hills, Qunatocks and the like.

I know people with the Soul and they use variable height forks for what they want it to do - run at 100mm its a tight turning singletrack ripper, 130mm its a lazier turning, stable downhill speedmachine. I personally never liked the look of it as much as the HJ but it certainly rode well for them.

If I had to buy another hardtail tomorrow I'd buy another Cove without question. Which is praise enough I think.

Soul Boy

Hmmm, where would my money go?

I swapped my entire set up from a P7 to my Soul. The Soul is so much more lively, really loves to be thrown about.

I ride Swinley Forest regularly, which has loads of single track, a few jumps and downhill runs, Welsh Trail Centres occasionally, and Les Arc last year. The Soul takes it all in its stride, though to be fair, Alpine downhill can be a handful, but doable and fun 8)

Mines set up with a pair of 100mm Manitou Minutes, would love to try longer, but will do for now.

I'm sure the others are good too, but you wouldn't be disappointed with the Soul......

Wacky Racer

Well it looks as though I have picked out two which are pretty evenly matched, so the only solution is to get on both and see what I think.

The Cotic Soul is well reviewed by pretty much everyone, not just on here, but everywhere else, the main issues will be dimensional, as it has a longer top tube and shorter stem set-up, and will probably size up differently to most other HT's. At 5' 9" I would normally look at 17/18" frame, but may need to drop to a smaller frame to accomodate me. I have a feeling that I am going to fall somewhere between small and medium.

The Cove looks altogether simpler to match up size wise, and again appears to be well reviewed everywhere, the only fly in the ointment appears to be the decal finish not wearing too well, but I believe most reports are on the earlier models, and maybe not a problem on the later frames.

The best prices I can find on the Cove is around £390, whereas the Soul comes in at £470, can't find a discount. I guess £80 is a decent saving, but not a deal clincher.

Just got to find both frames available close to one another so I can try both on the same day. That could be as difficult as deciding which one.

Thanks for the advice from all of you.

paul.skibum

I have no report on the Soul for durability but I can tell you that the paint and decals on my older Cove were not amazing - the paint itself is still on there and aside from scratches and cable wear and loss of any gloss after 5 years of use it isn't really a problem - I still have the original decals in place and they are pealing a little - mostly the corners of the wording - I took off the XC part of the frame name as its a pointless addition.

I am considering a powder coat sometime soon for the frame and will probably replace the Cove stickers and the skull logo but maybe not bother with the handjob name on there.

As mentioned above I think the Cove is a fantastic bike for the money (I paid 250 for mine years back) and it wants for nothing on an average ride - its probably got more to give than I ask of it = I have torn down reds and blacks in the alps, done 40 plus mile rides, logged long uphills and road sections on it, commuted on it, ridden stairs, north shore, small drops and jumps and all sorts with no ill effects.

I dont doubt you can do the same on many other hardtails but this is my hardtail and I love it

Northwind

blister pus wrote:

IThe Soul is a great ride, period (I'll let Northwind wax lyrical).

Can't be bothered

Oh, OK then. I love mine, it's fantastic, really brings out the best in me... You can thrash it around or you can settle back and grind out long distance, it climbs better with 130mm in the front than my Scandal did at 100mm, but it descends well too. I can't compare with the Cove, and the only 456 I've ridden was built up heavy for serious descending so isn't a fair comparison (it was horrible up hills, great down).

Only downer for me is the price. And that's a big downer, it's kind of hard to recommend a £470 frame when there's stuff like the 456 out there. But for me it was worth it, absolutely, built up with strong light parts and a u-turn fork you've got an XC race bike or an innerleithen-red trail centre beast, and everything inbetween.

Steve_b77

I have a Cove Handjob, I built it up myself in November last year, using RS Rev U-Turns.

The bike feels best IMHO @ 115mm of travel, right in the middle of it's range. Don't get me wrong wind it out to 130mm and it descends brilliantly, but for everyday single track especially woodland stuff it's fantastic @ 115mm.

What ever you do don't overbuild it with heavy ass wheels etc as there's no need for it, mine's built up with Mavic Cross rides, Raceface Evolve XC/SLX & LX drivetrain and Raceface Evolve finishing kit.

Looks like this



Check HERE for build/spec list.

Had the bike for over 6 months now, and it's been hammerd all winter, through the Peaks, Welsh trail centres and I really can't fault it. The ride is fantastic, handles brilliantly and zips up climbs when I can be arsed to ride them quick

bungalistic

There was a wee article on Dirt about one of their chaps who had built up a cotic soul, it looks very nice indeed: http://dirtmag.co.uk/blogs/staff-blogs/ ... cotic-soul

The only thing I would say to check on is tyre clearance on the cotic frames. Friend of mine has the Bfe, which is meant to be their burly hardtail frame but there are problems with tyre clearance on the back with some tyres, so depending on what you're going to run do check that.

passout

Cove - very strong and a nice ride.

Wacky Racer

Steve_b77 - Nice bike, good kit on there.

I know you only built yours a little over 6 months ago, but can you confirm whether the paint and decal quality is good. There were a few issues on 2003 bikes especially claims of peeling decals, and indifferent paint finish, but I can't see any reports on later models.

Cheers for the build advice, definitely won't be throwing too much weight at this, I am very happy in the knowledge that it will stand up to quite a bit and as you'll see from my initial post, no big drops, or crazy stuff for me, so will be more XC than AM.

ride_whenever

I'd wait and get the new evil sovereign...

Wacky Racer

ride_whenever wrote:

I'd wait and get the new evil sovereign...

No doubt that the Sovereign is a really good frame, but just too much in terms of weight and travel for my needs, it's a 130 - 150mm bracket, and at over 6lb in weight would cripple the XC/Do it all type of bike I want to build.

Strobe_UK

Cove Handjob XC rider here. 2008 model in white. I have mine built up to reflect my larde-arse weight and 'heavy' xc use ... Rev 100-130 U-turns (spot-on forks for the frame, imo), XT gears, Oro K24 brakes, Easton / Thomson bits and Hope Hoops (Pro2/5.1D's). Makes for a sweet ride with a reasonable weight around 28lbs. You could go much lighter but I don't think you would be doing the frame justice. No problems with the decals on mine, but have had a couple of minor paint chips.