Rooks admits EPO use

iainf72

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rooks-admits-to-epo-use

After 1989 - Certainly 1990 was the first I heard of it.

All coming out of the woodwork now, eh?

mididoctors2

that does surprise me... a little

SpaceJunk

mididoctors2 wrote:

that does surprise me... a little

What - that he took it, or admitted to taking it?

Interesting to note he only started to take it in 1989, the year after coming second in GC and won KOM.

iainf72

After 1989, not "in 1989"

andyp

Is it really a surprise? Wasn't the mass abandonment of the entire PDM team in 1991 eventually admitted to be due to the administration of a bad batch of EPO? Rooks was on the team then.

mididoctors2

andyp wrote:

Is it really a surprise? Wasn't the mass abandonment of the entire PDM team in 1991 eventually admitted to be due to the administration of a bad batch of EPO? Rooks was on the team then.

i thought that was dodgy transfusions?

mididoctors2

SpaceJunk wrote:

mididoctors2 wrote:

that does surprise me... a little

What - that he took it, or admitted to taking it?

Interesting to note he only started to take it in 1989, the year after coming second in GC and won KOM.

the early adoption...

andyp

mididoctors2 wrote:

andyp wrote:

Is it really a surprise? Wasn't the mass abandonment of the entire PDM team in 1991 eventually admitted to be due to the administration of a bad batch of EPO? Rooks was on the team then.

i thought that was a dodgy transfusions?

I'm sure there was a confession made on a Dutch TV show where it was stated that EPO was the cause but they'd lied about that at the time. I know Intralipid was mentioned too so might have got the facts confused. But there was definitely an admission of EPO usage within the team in 1991.

Edit: a quick google shows details on the Wikipedia page;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDM-Concorde

mididoctors2

hmmm maybe i need to slightly adjust my timeline of understanding by a couple of years or so?

ratherbeintobago

andyp wrote:

I know Intralipid was mentioned too so might have got the facts confused.

I may be being thick here, but why would anyone abuse intralipid?

RBIT

andyp

ratherbeintobago wrote:

I may be being thick here, but why would anyone abuse intralipid?

RBIT

I assume they were using it to get additional calories. I don't know if they were abusing it as such, just using it.

FJS

Rooks was at Buckler (Jan Raas' team) in 1991, not PDM.

This confession and EPO use by Rooks does surprise me a bit. He already confessed a couple of years ago using doping during his career: testosterone, amphetamines etc, all the regular pre-EPO era doping of the 1980s. I'm a bit surprised by the move to EPO after 1989, because his career really went downhill in the 1990s, well, basically after 1989..... :?

Bronzie

FJS wrote:

I'm a bit surprised by the move to EPO after 1989, because his career really went downhill in the 1990s, well, basically after 1989..... :?

And therein lies the rub............some respond better to it than others. He went from being a top climber to an also ran.

FJS

Bronzie wrote:

FJS wrote:

I'm a bit surprised by the move to EPO after 1989, because his career really went downhill in the 1990s, well, basically after 1989..... :?

And therein lies the rub............some respond better to it than others. He went from being a top climber to an also ran.

This would definitely add some evidence for that idea, yes

dave_1

what about the massive boost EPO is supposed to give riders who are crap, make them brilliant??? .....EPO could not turn around Rooks' decline... and so Indurain in 88, 89 winnng at TDF 89 , Paris Nice 89 was very much proof he could win the TDF in the future and not proof of EPO as from Rooks account it seems clear EPO was not being dished out to everyone...Rooks used other PEDs too, admits to them.."work a good Dr" is the exact quote from him. IMO Indurain's 7 GT wins are given a little more cred as it seems pretty obvious his promise in the late 80s was not drug to the eye balls...but a natural talent developing...even though he surely had to step up the plate later am sure

aurelio_-_banned

Dave_1 wrote:

what about the massive boost EPO is supposed to give riders who are crap, make them brilliant???

As has been mentioned plenty of times on here previously, all riders respond differently. In the simplest terms someone with a natural haemocrit of 49 has much less to gain from boosting it to 50, or even 58, than someone whose natural haemocrit level is 39...

Dave_1 wrote:

so Indurain in 88, 89 winnng at TDF 89 , Paris Nice 89 was very much proof he could win the TDF in the future

If such performances were 'proof' of Tour winning ability, how come so many Tour stage and even Paris-Nice winners have never got anywhere near to the TDF podium?

dave_1

aurelio wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

what about the massive boost EPO is supposed to give riders who are crap, make them brilliant???

As has been mentioned plenty of times on here previously, all riders respond differently. In the simplest terms someone with a natural haemocrit of 49 has much less to gain from boosting it to 50, or even 58, than someone whose natural haemocrit level is 39...

Dave_1 wrote:

so Indurain in 88, 89 winnng at TDF 89 , Paris Nice 89 was very much proof he could win the TDF in the future

If such performances were 'proof' of Tour winning ability, how come so many Tour stage and even Paris-Nice winners have never got anywhere near to the TDF podium?

a mountain stage win in 89 summit in pyrenees on a long uphilll , Cauteret, a proper mountain stage summit win, ...

re EPO use...someone at 39 crit will altitude train and micro dose epo up to the same limit of 50% , manage some health risks yes, but they will do it,...and Rooks as an example could be taken as sign EPO will not much help someone in poor form-ageing pro

timoid.

Dave_1 wrote:

what about the massive boost EPO is supposed to give riders who are crap, make them brilliant??? .....EPO could not turn around Rooks' decline... and so Indurain in 88, 89 winnng at TDF 89 , Paris Nice 89 was very much proof he could win the TDF in the future and not proof of EPO as from Rooks account it seems clear EPO was not being dished out to everyone...Rooks used other PEDs too, admits to them.."work a good Dr" is the exact quote from him. IMO Indurain's 7 GT wins are given a little more cred as it seems pretty obvious his promise in the late 80s was not drug to the eye balls...but a natural talent developing...even though he surely had to step up the plate later am sure

Kléber

It's never so black and white. "Taking EPO" is not as simple as it sounds. Do you take big doses or small ones. Do you try to top up your blood count during a stage race or do you seek the maximum advantage? Do you spend a lot of money on this very expensive product and hire shady experts to oversee the doping programmes or just visit a pharmacy in Monaco and Andorra and buy a box to try?

Anyway, "Former TVM rider takes EPO" is hardly news, it's up there with "Cyclist rides bike" or "Wheel is round" for news. Skibby, Roux, Hamburger and others have all been caught or exposed, this was hardly the healthiest of outfits.

jimmythecuckoo

Not a surprise really I suppose.

Rooks was my first hero of the Tour de France so I feel a little cheated.

skavanagh.bikeradar

I was looking at the list of KOM winners the other day and that made me feel cheated.

dave_1

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

Not a surprise really I suppose.

Rooks was my first hero of the Tour de France so I feel a little cheated.

Rooks actually has some ethics in my opinion...he stated in interviews that he would pull up road side and drop 10 minutes, the required time to let delgado back into yellow had Delgado been given a 10 minute penalty at the 1988 TDF...Rooks would have refused the win...I guess he knew he and Delgado were only on the same products. level playing field of sorts

Noodley

Wait a minute! Wait a cotton picking good darn minute!

We're onto the 2nd page of an 'ex cyclist admits to doping' thread and nobody has yet alleged he was an also-ran who was just not good enough and is bitter nor anyone alleging he is only doing it for the money.

I am, quite frankly, extremely disappointed.