Millar's training methods
anybody else read the wee interview with Millar on cycling news report of yesterdays Dauphnie?
"David Millar of Garmin-Slipstream is turning into a mountain climber, and is currently in fifth place overall. "It's a bit of a surprise. I hoped to go well here at the Dauphiné, but I've hoped so many times in the recent past without success" he said.
The secret of his success? Doing nothing. Previously, he said, “I trained too much. This time, between my time at the Giro d'Italia and the start of the Dauphiné, I've done almost nothing. I think this is the best for me: to just rest between the races and race hard."
I thought that was what he always did?
Wonder if he'll reconsider after yesterdays effort??
"David Millar of Garmin-Slipstream is turning into a mountain climber, and is currently in fifth place overall. "It's a bit of a surprise. I hoped to go well here at the Dauphiné, but I've hoped so many times in the recent past without success" he said.
The secret of his success? Doing nothing. Previously, he said, “I trained too much. This time, between my time at the Giro d'Italia and the start of the Dauphiné, I've done almost nothing. I think this is the best for me: to just rest between the races and race hard."
I thought that was what he always did?
Wonder if he'll reconsider after yesterdays effort??
"It is good to have an end to journey toward, but it is the journey that matters in the end."
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He's put in a good race and I hope he can continue into the TdF. He is not a climber and will never be one but his climbing is improving so that should help. A stage win in the TdF would be very good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ride Daily, Keep Healthy0 -
Millar also said he has done away with the heart rate monitor... which is quite interesting..maybe the way things are going?0
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I didn't know that but perhaps that's the way to go, forget the electronics and revert back to how you feel at the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ride Daily, Keep Healthy0 -
Keith Oates wrote:I didn't know that but perhaps that's the way to go, forget the electronics and revert back to how you feel at the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
indeed Keith.....humans are fairly good at judging how they feel without machines telling them....but from what I hear, the young generation live by the power tap and heart monitor etc...0 -
Such a strategy works very well for most riders. Some people like to believe the old myth that professionals ride at the level they do because they spend 6 hours a day on their bikes 'busting their asses’. True enough, many pros spend a lot of time on their bikes, especially in the early season, but this will be riding at pretty low intensities, primarily improving their ability to metabolise fat and improving their efficiency. Much shorter, hard sessions are also needed, but once the racing season is underway riders, both pro and amateur, should be able to get all the quality they need in races. From then on training needs to focus on very low-level recovery rides and low intensity work.coinneach wrote:"David Millar of Garmin-Slipstream is turning into a mountain climber, and is currently in fifth place overall. " The secret of his success? Doing nothing. Previously, he said, “I trained too much. This time, between my time at the Giro d'Italia and the start of the Dauphiné, I've done almost nothing. I think this is the best for me: to just rest between the races and race hard."
Generally, excessive training just results in deep fatigue and there is no point doing more training than that needed to produce the optimum level of adaptation.
Some excellent articles I have read on this subject also argue that pros often go faster than amateurs not because they train more but because they can rest more. Similarly, trying to remove everyday stresses from one's life can be a valuable aid to performance as when one is stressed the body’s sympathetic nervous system is permanently active, releasing cortisol and other hormones into the bloodstream. Not only does this lead to long-term fatigue, the 'build and repair' parasympathetic nervous system operates much less effectively as a result.0 -
P.s. the myth that "more is better" and that the winners are those who work harder than everybody else seems to be particularly strongly associated with American sports people. This is probably because the whole ethos of the USA is based on the myth of the meritocratic society. For example, Arnold Schwarzenegger in his film 'Pumping Iron' claimed:
"Going through the pain barrier, that's what makes the muscles grow. There's this pain, this aching, and going on and on and on. That's what divides a champion from a non-champion - having the guts to go through the pain barrier."
As we all know, the biggest reason Arnie's muscles grew so big was all the steroids he took! A similar point could be made about many other American sportsmen, including a few pro cyclists I can think of.
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aurelio wrote:P.s. the myth that "more is better" and that the winners are those who work harder than everybody else seems to be particularly strongly associated with American sports people. This is probably because the whole ethos of the USA is based on the myth of the meritocratic society. For example, Arnold Schwarzenegger in his film 'Pumping Iron' claimed:
"Going through the pain barrier, that's what makes the muscles grow. There's this pain, this aching, and going on and on and on. That's what divides a champion from a non-champion - having the guts to go through the pain barrier."
As we all know, the biggest reason Arnie's muscles grew so big was all the steroids he took! A similar point could be made about many other American sportsmen, including a few pro cyclists I can think of.
what the above has to do with David Millar...god knows???0 -
Millar's comments (and what is known about the physiology of training) show that the idea that "more is better" and that 'busting your ass" for hours everyday on a bike is the secret to success is pretty much a nonsense. Doubtless you would like to believe that a certain hero of yours is the exception to the rule. :roll:Dave_1 wrote:
what the above has to do with David Millar...god knows???aurelio wrote:P.s. the myth that "more is better" and that the winners are those who work harder than everybody else seems to be particularly strongly associated with American sports people. This is probably because the whole ethos of the USA is based on the myth of the meritocratic society. For example, Arnold Schwarzenegger in his film 'Pumping Iron' claimed:
"Going through the pain barrier, that's what makes the muscles grow. There's this pain, this aching, and going on and on and on. That's what divides a champion from a non-champion - having the guts to go through the pain barrier."
As we all know, the biggest reason Arnie's muscles grew so big was all the steroids he took! A similar point could be made about many other American sportsmen, including a few pro cyclists I can think of.0 -
aurelio wrote:
Millar's comments (and what is known about the physiology of training) show that the idea that "more is better" and that 'busting your ass" for hours everyday on a bike is the secret to success is pretty much a nonsense. Doubtless you would like to believe that a certain hero of yours is the exception to the rule. :roll:Dave_1 wrote:
what the above has to do with David Millar...god knows???aurelio wrote:P.s. the myth that "more is better" and that the winners are those who work harder than everybody else seems to be particularly strongly associated with American sports people. This is probably because the whole ethos of the USA is based on the myth of the meritocratic society. For example, Arnold Schwarzenegger in his film 'Pumping Iron' claimed:
"Going through the pain barrier, that's what makes the muscles grow. There's this pain, this aching, and going on and on and on. That's what divides a champion from a non-champion - having the guts to go through the pain barrier."
As we all know, the biggest reason Arnie's muscles grew so big was all the steroids he took! A similar point could be made about many other American sportsmen, including a few pro cyclists I can think of.
This thread is about David Millar , so start a Lance A thread...stay on topic will you0 -
It might be about Miller, but it is also about what approach to training actually brings the best results, and in highlighting that one will inevitably have to challenge the myths that "more is better" and that success comes from "busting your ass" for 6 hours a day on your bike.Dave_1 wrote:This thread is about David Millar , so start a Lance A thread...stay on topic will you
Of course other riders have spun 'training myths' of their own. One of my favourite comes from Freddy Maertens who once claimed that his early season form came from both him and Roger de Vlaeminck running for miles through the sand dunes near to where they lived whilst carrying their wives on their backs! (There I go again, going 'off-topic'. :roll: )0 -
aurelio wrote:
It might be about Miller, but it is also about what approach to training actually brings the best results, and in highlighting that one will inevitably have to challenge the myths that "more is better" and that success comes from "busting your ass" for 6 hours a day on your bike.Dave_1 wrote:This thread is about David Millar , so start a Lance A thread...stay on topic will you
Of course other riders have spun 'training myths' of their own. One of my favourite comes from Freddy Maertens who once claimed that his early season form came from both him and Roger de Vlaeminck running for miles through the sand dunes near to where they lived whilst carrying their wives on their backs!
Yes it is about David Millar, so you should not be using it as your platform for a repeat rant for the trillionth time against Lance Armstrong...go start your own thread instead of take over unrelated threads. Millar isn't doping I don't think so if you are capable of assuming that premise, the doping paragraph above is also pretty much off topic...he's 9th overall in the Dauphine clean and you don't wanna talk about it. Fine.0 -
I wasn't primarily trying to make a point about Pharmstrong, just trying to wind you up by playing on your belief (at least going by what you have said previously) that Armstrong's 'wins' were the result of him "busting his ass for six hours a day". I seem to have succeeded in my aim.Dave_1 wrote:Yes it is about David Millar, so you should not be using it as your platform for a repeat rant for the trillionth time against Lance Armstrong.
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That would be to go off-topic...Dave_1 wrote:Millar isn't doping I don't think so if you are capable of assuming that premise, the doping paragraph above is also pretty much off topic...he's 9th overall in the Dauphine clean and you don't wanna talk about it. Fine. 0 -
aurelio wrote:
I wasn't primarily trying to make a point about Pharmstrong, just trying to wind you up by playing on your belief (at least going by what you have said previously) that Armstrong's 'wins' were the result of him "busting his ass for six hours a day". I seem to have succeeded in my aim.Dave_1 wrote:Yes it is about David Millar, so you should not be using it as your platform for a repeat rant for the trillionth time against Lance Armstrong.
So basically, you wanted to to try and wind me up..so go onto a thread not to do with LA and turn it into one. Just cause you can only talk LA doping, doesn't mean everyone else must. Observe some forum etiqette, show some respect0 -
aurelio wrote:
That would be to go off-topic...Dave_1 wrote:Millar isn't doping I don't think so if you are capable of assuming that premise, the doping paragraph above is also pretty much off topic...he's 9th overall in the Dauphine clean and you don't wanna talk about it. Fine.
I would have like a chat about Millar's non use of heart rate monitor, lay off between races, over training...there must be plenty views...but you mess the thread up, clutter it with unrelated information, try and score points, petty of you
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One day, Dave, you will thank me for helping you to find the path that will take you from being a blind fan-boy and will lead you towards enlightenment.Dave_1 wrote:you mess the thread up, clutter it with unrelated information, try and score points.. 0 -
Anyhow, back to the subject of training. This article talks A LOT of sense. 'Winter warriors' take note! (Mark Allen won the world Ironman triathalon championship six times).
Ace of Base
by mark allen
Hello 1996! Even though it's almost the official beginning of spring, if you are anything like me, I'm still trying to find my rhythm in training. Should I try something new or go with the basic routine I've done in the past? Something extravagant? Forget it. It's nuts and bolts time. Everything we do now on the roads and in the pool will pay off during the summer and at that final race of the year in the fall. The trick is to do enough training in the right way without overdoing it. It may seem like quite a balancing act, but in reality it's quite simple to lay the groundwork now in a way that will carry you through an entire season, and on into the next. I'm going to throw out most of the entertainment value during this article and give you the essentials I consider absolutely necessary to do this time of year to help make your season as a whole a success.
But first I want to share with you the secret of how I have trained for the last 12 years. I'm going to tell you exactly what I have done every winter and spring since 1984. I'm not superhuman, so this secret is not reserved for the genetically superior being. I have a family and other commitments outside of my training even though I do this for a living, and this secret works within those constraints as well. I can be lazy with the biggest slouches, and have also overtrained like the most neurotic type ‘A’ person you've ever met. But this secret has helped me overcome both of these extremes. Do you want to here it? Are you ready for it? The secret is... BASE!
You're probably saying, "Base'? So what? Everyone knows you need a base.”
I know you know you need base, and that you probably don't want to read another article on it because you've already been bored to tears with the topic. But I'm going to give it to you once again anyway, because if you can finally get it right, I guarantee you will have a better overall season than you have ever had in your life. Period! So bare with me, and let's get going.
The number one thing I'm going to ask you to do right now is to put your ego in the vault for the time being. We are talking about no frills base building. This is the biggest determining factor in performance later on. It’s not intricate like threshold work or interesting as are variances on a theme at the track. But it will bring the results you want. Base is the big potato. Without enough of it, all the speed work in the world won't turn your VW engine into a Masarati.
The problem with base work is that it doesn't really feel like you are going 'hard' enough. Base comes from going out for the daily grind at or below your Maximum Aerobic Level. But since it doesn't have the same shock feel of speed work, day to day it doesn't really feel like you are getting anywhere with it. It doesn't satisfy our mind's need to see big jumps and changes in a short period of time. But trust me. It works. Building your base is putting money in the bank for later. The more you put in now, the more there is to take down the road. Speed work draws on that account, and the energy taken out goes to 'buying performance'. Save the big 'bucks' for the big races. Use the big withdrawals to accomplish your big picture goal. Don't let yourself get caught in the anaerobic trap of draining your physical account bit by bit over too long a period of time. If you do, there may not be anything left for the big dance at the end of the year. Have you put your training ego on hold? Okay, then we're almost ready to get training.
But first, let's talk a little science. Your body is a big energy converter, using mostly fat and carbohydrates to move. In action, you change stored fuel into forms your muscles can 'eat' for contraction. This requires enzymes. The more enzymes you have to make these conversions, the quicker the whole process works. More enzymes for energy conversion is like hiring more workers to help on the construction sight. You can saw a thousand pieces of wood, one at a time, or bring in a thousand people to saw thern all at the same tirne. It's obvious which is quicker. In the body, more enzymes makes you more metabolically efficient.
Metabolic efficiency, the ability to convert stored energy into food for muscular activity, is built over time, with the right level of intensity during training. Anything we are doing in triathlons is going to be achieved predominantly with the burning of fats, even in Olympic Distance races. Therefore, as you have heard before, we need to increase our number of fat burning enzymes. You do this by building a base. This requires training at or below your Maximum Aerobic Level. This is the highest heart rate you can train at and still be predominantly training your aerobic (fat burning) systems.
Figure your MAL right now before continuing...
Okay, back to the programme. As you build base, your MAL stays essentially the same within each season. But your pace at that particular heart rate will gradually get faster. You can measure your progress by going to the track once every two weeks and, after warming up, time one mile at that MAL heart rate and see how your speed at that MAL changes. When I first started training this way, my time for the mile on the track was a 7:45. Now, at that very same heart rate, my pace is a 5:25 mile! Same heart rate, very different speed. And it all came from building those aerobic enzymes.
There are three keys to making this base system work.
-The first is to be very consistent in your training. You don't necessarily need mega miles to become more efficient. Simply try, within the constraints of your life, to make an aerobic workout a daily part of your routine. Even training for twenty minutes a day in this zone will make improvements in your pace at your MAL.
-The second condition for maximizing your time spent during the base period is to NEVER train above your MAL heart rate. Remember, this is the time when you are putting money in the bank. Anaerobic work (anything above MAL) takes big chunks out and erodes the base you are building. This is the hardest thing for people to do- to trust that a seemingly moderate effort in training will ultimately enable you to really crank it out at the high end later. Have the patience. You will be doing the fast stuff soon enough, but not now.
-The third key is to as much as possible, keep your lifestyle stress free. That's almost impossible in these times. But try. The reason is that your body reacts chemically to stress in the exact same way it does to anacrobic training. It turns off the fat burning systems and turns on the glucose burning systems. Every time you get overstressed, it's as if you just did a track workout, rnetabolically speaking. So if you aren't seeing any improvement in your pace at the MAL track test, take a look at your lifestyle and see if there are stress factors that might be working contrary to your base programme. And as always, change those that you can and don't worry about the rest. I haven't given really any specific advise on the actual miles you need to be doing right now. That is relatively unimportant in relation to your pace. Don't be fooled by the simplicity of what I have presented to you, I know very few people who have the patience to train their base miles in the way I have just outlined.
In fact, I'm going to present the challenge to you right now. Go to the track this week and find out what your pace is at your MAL, Then for the next rnonth, train consistently at or below your MAI. The actual mileage shouldn't be the main concern. Train roughly the same miles you have been, but without doing anything fast (above MAL). Reduce a few of the changeable stress factors. Then before you read the next month's 220 Magazine, go to the track and do the MAL pace test once again. See if there isn't a change in the positive direction. At that point we can talk about the next phase of your training. Good Luck. I'll see you next month!
two twenty april 1996.0 -
Seems at odds with Lemond's views on training, that you should start off with the high quality stuff and go out and do the long steady rides later.
Given that aurelio is never wrong, this surely calls into question Lemond's judgement, and hence the credibility of the Greg / Stef phone conversation.Le Blaireau (1)0 -
Might want to take this to the training forum as that seems to be where this is heading.
http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopi ... 6#15396266
BTW Pros are well known for not revealing what type of training they are doing and I wouldn't be totally convinced what Millar is saying is completely true.
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It all probably depends on what you mean by 'later', 'training', 'long steady rides' and the type of rider you are.DaveyL wrote:Seems at odds with Lemond's views on training, that you should start off with the high quality stuff and go out and do the long steady rides later.
If you are an amateur with limited time, quality is definitely the way to go; even a 20 or 30-minute session using maximal effort intervals can give big returns. Also, there is no need to do 4 or 5-hour rides when your events will be less than 2 hours.
What many amateurs still do is to train in what has become known as the 'mediocre middle' or 'level 2'. This feels quite hard but can be sustained for a ‘steady’ 2-3 hours. However, it does not give the benefits of high intensity training and often leads to chronic fatigue. Lemond would certainly be right to say that short-intensity, high-level efforts will give both greater returns and carry less risk of overtraining than such 'volume' training.
That said, later on in a rider’s career, and if they are riding long events, the ability to utilise fat at ever-high levels of effort is vital, as is developing efficiency, and long rides do help to develop this. However, such low-intensity (and usually pre-season) base miles might best be regarded as 'training for training' rather than training proper. Once again, if you are just riding 10 mile TT’s, even at the highest level, there is no need to put in the hours someone hoping to get around the Milan-San Remo might need, even in the pre-season.
Another place for low-intensity efforts is when doing an active recovery session of limited duration once the 'real' training begins.
Personally, I feel that just going for a long bike ride can be very beneficial, not because of any training effect but simply because such rides are part of the joy of cycling. (Just don’t confuse them with ‘training’ though!). If that doesn’t interest you it is quite possible to compete at the highest level in, for example, short distance time trials on nothing more than short, intense turbo-trainer sessions. Similarly, if you just want to 'keep fit' short, high intensity sessions are the way to go.0 -
DaveyL wrote:Seems at odds with Lemond's views on training, that you should start off with the high quality stuff and go out and do the long steady rides later.
Given that aurelio is never wrong, this surely calls into question Lemond's judgement, and hence the credibility of the Greg / Stef phone conversation.
I see guys like Obree used to say he only really trained about 4 or 5 hours a week...and on days when too tired to raise heart rate to high intensity would basically go weight training on the bike, 55x12 up hill at 40rpm seated...was an interesting theory...you can train when you are tired!0 -
aurelio wrote:
One day, Dave, you will thank me for helping you to find the path that will take you from being a blind fan-boy and will lead you towards enlightenment.Dave_1 wrote:you mess the thread up, clutter it with unrelated information, try and score points..
off topic yet again :roll: Mods, do something pls!0 -
Yes but he would race for an hour a week, one 25 on Sunday and that's it. Very different from a pro road cyclist who will do a 25 mile warm up before a TT stage and who has to train for the distance but also the pace changes.Dave_1 wrote:I see guys like Obree used to say he only really trained about 4 or 5 hours a week
Even if Millar has binned the HRM and power metre his form could just be coincidence, going into the Giro fresh because of an early season injury then then coming out of it strong with only a need for some light sessions to perfect the form.
But his climbing was exceptionally good. Dare I say but if he was called Muller or Molina a lot of eyebrows would be raised, no? Rather than speculate I'd like to know what's changed on his power-weight ratio, has he lost weight or has he found an extra 30 watts? Ironically his Garmin should be able to tell us all.0 -
Kléber wrote:
Yes but he would race for an hour a week, one 25 on Sunday and that's it. Very different from a pro road cyclist who will do a 25 mile warm up before a TT stage and who has to train for the distance but also the pace changes.Dave_1 wrote:I see guys like Obree used to say he only really trained about 4 or 5 hours a week
Even if Millar has binned the HRM and power metre his form could just be coincidence, going into the Giro fresh because of an early season injury then then coming out of it strong with only a need for some light sessions to perfect the form.
But his climbing was exceptionally good. Dare I say but if he was called Muller or Molina a lot of eyebrows would be raised, no? Rather than speculate I'd like to know what's changed on his power-weight ratio, has he lost weight or has he found an extra 30 watts? Ironically his Garmin should be able to tell us all.
I thought he could always ride tempo in the mountains.. his problem was/is sustaining performance across several days.. he gradually faded across the mountain stages sliding down the GC. we have seen him perform in early mountain stages of the tour.. last year he was with the lead group when Ricco flew off
lets recap the most impressive day he had (IMO) on the ventoux
on ventoux he just rode with in him self and came back to the yellow jersey group once evans had punched himself out covering all the moves made before the climb broke the tree line into the wind at the top
valverde went at the right time.. just before the tree cover ran out and interestingly with just the right amount of sliding room on GC not to get jumped on
Millar had already slid backwards after the stop start bursts of the various GC contnders..
from there on valverde and schmeeddddd plowed on with evans grovelling into the wind on his own..
IIRC millar came backto evans in a small working group... still impressive but understanable.. not out of this world0 -
Lots of interesting points...good to see you still have the passion, Dave1 !
I've always been a fan of Millars, and still am, but like all my cycling heros, I have felt let down at times. Having a rare talent, but not using it to the full, seems such a waste. He used to be criticised for not training enough and going out partying...maybe he's just reduced the partying?"It is good to have an end to journey toward, but it is the journey that matters in the end."0 -
coinneach wrote:Lots of interesting points...good to see you still have the passion, Dave1 !
I've always been a fan of Millars, and still am, but like all my cycling heros, I have felt let down at times. Having a rare talent, but not using it to the full, seems such a waste. He used to be criticised for not training enough and going out partying...maybe he's just reduced the partying?
cheers, it's a good thread
lots of cyclists-racing cyclist have too even a form through the year cause they are scared to ease off , scared to take a couple of days off or a whole week off every 3 to 4 months so are at times a little too tired mentally and physically from the steady state grind of their routine to do the quality that raises them to a higher level...I hardly missed a day between the age of 14-24 years old and then quit in january...did not touch a bike for 6 months, drank and smoked...went out with the bunch-racing cyclists-and stayed with them for 3 hours, not dropped and hard pace ...all on 6 months off a bike....basically tons of amatuers are not taking anywhere near enough rest from the routine and consqequently too jaded to really put in the 4 to 5 hours a week that Obree spoke of...that was my mistake and I bet the insecure competitive race cyclist also convinces themself they can't have a day off when they definitely can0 -
Dave_1 wrote:Keith Oates wrote:I didn't know that but perhaps that's the way to go, forget the electronics and revert back to how you feel at the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
indeed Keith.....humans are fairly good at judging how they feel without machines telling them....but from what I hear, the young generation live by the power tap and heart monitor etc...
If you think the younger generation can afford such luxuries.
I had to think twice about buying a pair of bib-shorts.
A speedo was an outrageously luxurious purchase.Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.0 -
Kléber wrote:
But his climbing was exceptionally good. Dare I say but if he was called Muller or Molina a lot of eyebrows would be raised, no? Rather than speculate I'd like to know what's changed on his power-weight ratio, has he lost weight or has he found an extra 30 watts? Ironically his Garmin should be able to tell us all.
Does anyone know how the times up Ventoux compared to previous ascents/what the wattages were?0 -
Cumulonimbus wrote:Kléber wrote:
But his climbing was exceptionally good. Dare I say but if he was called Muller or Molina a lot of eyebrows would be raised, no? Rather than speculate I'd like to know what's changed on his power-weight ratio, has he lost weight or has he found an extra 30 watts? Ironically his Garmin should be able to tell us all.
Does anyone know how the times up Ventoux compared to previous ascents/what the wattages were?
my thoughts exactly re Ventoux times...it was visibly faster than 1987 MTT but IMO Indurain 1994 would have held those guys last week on ventoux0 -
Have asked this question elsewhere and someone has come up with this answer
http://www.cyclismag.com/article.php?sid=5078#ancre1
(under Puissances modestes au Ventoux)
wattages were only just over 400 watts apparently but it didnt do the whole climb due to strong winds at the top.0
