Only in America!

nicensleazy

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20090611/twl ... f21e0.html

freehub

Served her right! Hope he did it right in the neck!!!

robmanic1

The wrinklies will riot!!!

crown_jewel

Hey, our elderly are feisty.

Mark Alexander

let's watch it, there are usually good reasons for taking extreme actions. even if they are american police.......

nicklouse

another only in the US of A

http://tv.repubblica.it/copertina/in-co ... 3793?video

Anonymous

I'm all for Zapping american coffin-dodgers, JOKE

Cressers

...and comming here soon...

...giving police Tasers, or other 'less lethal' weapons is inviting their abuse as seen in this example.

nicensleazy

Cressers wrote:

...and comming here soon...

...giving police Tasers, or other 'less lethal' weapons is inviting their abuse as seen in this example.

Come on....thats the USA, you can't campare!

Cressers

No, nothing like that could happen here, could it? Our police would never shoot first and ask questions later, would they?

cee

Cressers wrote:

...and comming here soon...

...giving police Tasers, or other 'less lethal' weapons is inviting their abuse as seen in this example.

aye...but apparently our fuzz will get a diet version of the tasers whilst our american chums have the 'full-fat' versions.

nitesight

Mainly in response to Cressers comment of ...

"and comming here soon......giving police Tasers, or other 'less lethal' weapons is inviting their abuse as seen in this example."

There are always options but consider this. He's standing by a main road. In her agitated state she could run out into the road (it DOES happen), that would be his fault. She is pushing toward him CHOOSING not to comply and increasing the chance of him or her or both of them stumbling into traffic - that would be his fault.

He has the following options:

1. Physically restrain her - yeah that will cause zero injury plus there's the whole tumble under a truck issue.

2. Shoot her. High speed lead tends to cause a certain degree of injury.

3. Let her go cause she's old. Can't do that either - she's clearly shown she's unreasonable and wound up, she'll be irrational behind the wheel and lets face it she was speeding and would go on to do so again. Perhaps next time she's stopped she'll pull the same stunt on another officer and he/she will be the one under the truck.

4. Pepper spray. This is excruciatingly painful, lasts for half an hour and increases the chances that she'll run around like a headless chicken in a panic and put her in the highway.

5. Talk her down. UK police are usually really good at this cause they don't have taser or a gun but lets face it does she look like she could be talked down? As things drag on she's only getting more wound up and increasing the chance they'll end up in traffic. That would be his fault.

6. Taser. Yes it looks like a gun and she's old but she'll drop like a stone, he waits until she's away from the road. It hurts like hell but minutes later she'll have shaken it off and be fine, be in custody or restrained with minimal chance of injury to her and the officer.

Those are the officers ONLY options so what would you choose? Taser is coming and it works. UK police already carry nasty CS and a whopping big stick that causes MUCH more damage and risk than Taser ever would yet because this looks like a gun everyone kicks up a stink about it.

We live in (I think) the ONLY country in the world where the police are not routinely armed. This puts our boys in blue more on offer than any other country yet they do it and don't want to carry a gun. They would not be able to willy nilly zap people and just as with their batons cuffs and CS they would have to justify anything they do, infinitum with everyone else having the benefit of hindsight and face the price of their career wage and pension if they get it wrong.

Remember you will not get Tasered if you don't give a reason to be. She could have/should have accepted the ticket and challenged it if she felt she had cause to do so. No need to act like a tw@t and set a course of events in place where you're put on your arse and get arrested for a minor offence.

Stewie Griffin

I agree with nitesight. Perhaps Tazers are adjustable though. Perhaps they have a confused little old lady setting, a teach this snotty little teenager a lesson setting and and a big bank robber who must be taken down otherwise God knows what he will do to escape setting?

robmanic1

He should have set it to "Shipman"

Stewie Griffin

Robmanic1 wrote:

He should have set it to "Shipman"

jos2thehua

She deserved it in my opinion...

Anonymous

nitesite got it rite.

Cressers

...and what if the tasering prompts a heart attack, as in can in people who have heart problems whether known or unknown? Some officers will use such weapons responsibly and only extreme circumstances, while others will see it as the easy option. How long will it be before a cyclist is tasered in the Uk for failing to stop?

Anonymous

Cressers wrote:

...and what if the tasering prompts a heart attack in the little old lady? Some officers will use such weapons responsibly and only extreme circumstances, while others will see it as the easy option. How long will it be before a cyclist is tasered in the Uk for failing to stop?

What if?

What if?

What if?

You can go on forever with what ifs...

What if the old lady ran into the road pushing the officer and killing him leaving his wife and kids to grieve?

WRT to the utterly ridiculous notion of a cyclist being tasered for failing to stop I take it you are taking the mickey in a Daily Mail style?

If you aren't joking then my serious answer would be to get a grip on reality.

Cressers

It has happened in the States...

http://mondoglobo.wftk.org/blog/qa/2009 ... or-no.html

...feel free to find more example for yourselves...

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q= ... =&aq=f&oq=

..and I have a firm grip on reality. That is why, unlike some people here, I don't regard the arming of the police with insouance.

Anonymous

I don't know what insouance means tbh.

nitesight

Nap D, I'm glad we're on the same page......here we go again!

I think Cressers actually means insouciance, which is a lack of care or concern or showing indifference. If your gonna show off with the big vocab then good to check your spelling first.

It's funny how a few examples of Tazer misuse can be used in that way. Lets chuck some figures in eh? Rather than show insouciance to the argument I've done a little research for the daily mail lot to put things further in perspective.

Most US police have Tazer as a less lethal option. Say there have been a 100 occasions where perhaps another option would have been better, you know actual cases of misuse by POLICE in all the time it's been implemented sort of thing. God a 100? should be an outcry....but...

There are 300 Million citizens in the USA. so 100 people out of 300 Million MAY have been zapped when perhaps they shouldn't.

Now, turning the argument on whether the police can be trusted with something that most will use to make themselves and others safer - nothing more. Vehicles. Most of those 300 million will drive in some way, yet doing some quick and loose research in 2006 there were 13,470 fatalities through drink driving. Clearly the public cannot be trusted with vehicles so I guess to follow Cressers argument they all cannot be trusted with them.

At least they'd be on bikes!

And as for shooting cyclists with Tazers, I found a story about that too - he's right there are a few out there- this was the one I found and again it justifies my argument. You won't get tazed if you don't give reason to and act like an intelligent being and if there is a mistake etc deal with it through appropriate channels.

"Bicyclist on wanted list

In some cases, Tasers get used because their darts fly faster than a deputy can run.

On the afternoon of June 2, 2003, a King County sheriff's deputy spotted a 22-year-old man riding a bicycle in SeaTac.

The man asked the deputy for directions, and the deputy, in his report, said it appeared to him the man was on drugs.

The man said he was 16, so the deputy asked for his name and birth date. When the date didn't match his age, the deputy realized he had been given false information and chased after the bicyclist.

"I ordered (him) to stop, but (he) continued," the deputy wrote in his report. "I then fired my department-issued Taser at (him), causing him to immediately and involuntarily dismount his bicycle."

The deputy later discovered the man had lied because he was wanted on charges of malicious mischief and second-degree theft. :shock:



Seeing as this is all very USA centric how about a quote from Abraham Lincoln
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

Some fail the test, there are thousands that don't.

So Cressers and all those of similar opinion, if you can protect me better and be more trusted go earn the badge, put on the body armour and be there when I need you. Oh and I hope you have a Tazer so you will be safer when you do it.

Anonymous

Nitesite, I freakin' love you man!

Cressers

You don't know me personally so you wouldn't know that I'm partially-sighted, still want to give me a Taser?

And that also explains my spelling, it's difficult to use fora with squinney fonts, such as this one, due to my condition it sometimes appears that letters are superimposed on each over, making spellchecking a chore. Still I won't hold that against you, or give you 50,000 volts...

Mike Healey

nitesight wrote:

He has the following options:

1. Physically restrain her - yeah that will cause zero injury plus there's the whole tumble under a truck issue

.

Let's see, police officer at least a foot taller, judging by the video, and possibly twice her weight. I'm sure it would be really difficult for him to do without causing her injury.

5. Talk her down. UK police are usually really good at this cause they don't have taser or a gun but lets face it does she look like she could be talked down? As things drag on she's only getting more wound up and increasing the chance they'll end up in traffic. That would be his fault.

The risk of her pushing him into the traffic? She is, after all, only 72 and must weigh all of 7-8 stone. Puhlease

Remember you will not get Tasered if you don't give a reason to be. She could have/should have accepted the ticket and challenged it if she felt she had cause to do so. No need to act like a tw@t and set a course of events in place where you're put on your ars* and get arrested for a minor offence.

If the only possible course of action for this officer was to taser a 72yr old, he needs soe more training in handling the elderly

Mike Healey

Mike Healey wrote:

nitesight wrote:

He has the following options:

1. Physically restrain her - yeah that will cause zero injury plus there's the whole tumble under a truck issue

.

Let's see, police officer at least a foot taller, judging by the video, and possibly twice her weight. I'm sure it would be really difficult for him to do without causing her injury.

5. Talk her down. UK police are usually really good at this cause they don't have taser or a gun but lets face it does she look like she could be talked down? As things drag on she's only getting more wound up and increasing the chance they'll end up in traffic. That would be his fault.

The risk of her pushing him into the traffic? She is, after all, only 72 and must weigh all of 7-8 stone. Puhlease

Remember you will not get Tasered if you don't give a reason to be. She could have/should have accepted the ticket and challenged it if she felt she had cause to do so. No need to act like a tw@t and set a course of events in place where you're put on your ars* and get arrested for a minor offence.

If the only possible course of action for this officer was to taser a 72yr old, he needs some more training in handling the elderly

nitesight

Cressers wrote:

You don't know me personally so you wouldn't know that I'm partially-sighted, still want to give me a Taser?

And that also explains my spelling, it's difficult to use fora with squinney fonts, such as this one, due to my condition it sometimes appears that letters are superimposed on each over, making spellchecking a chore. Still I won't hold that against you, or give you 50,000 volts...

That made me belly laugh. I use a small netbook for all this forum stuff and I struggle so I'm understanding. Wicked vocab use score for you then! Insouciance is a lovely word.

As you can probably guess I'm a bit passionate about the subject for reasons of my own. I know a few guys and girls who have been given grief for trying their upmost just to do the right thing. I'm a firm believer in not condemning someone for choices made unless I've walked a mile in their shoes. I was once told by a serving family member that Policing is one of those rare professions where everyone (rightly) has an opinion on how it should be done but unless you've been in the uniform, weighing up ALL the options, dealing with the fear and confusion and then making that split second decision that must be right, you really can't understand. I for one would not ever want to seek trial by public because (as is just and right) we all have too many opinions, hindsight is glorious and in the end, right or wrong the ones there at the time were the ones that had to make the call.

Regarding the officer needing training on dealing with the elderly.

I once had to restrain my sadly departed grandfather who suffered from dementia. Believe me, when you desperately don't want to hurt someone who is frail and breaks easily it isn't as easy as you'd expect and I wouldn't have wanted to do it on the hard shoulder.Tazer is painful and you wouldn't want it twice but it shuts down the central nervous system briefly and apart from the potential for falling on something is relatively safe. As I understand it every officer who uses it has been Tazed so knows what to expect. I'd rather be zapped than shot, beaten with a stick, pepper sprayed or having joint/ligament damage.....or better yet I'd not give reason to be in the first place. Just avoids all that nastiness.

The main point here is she bought it on herself. 17 or 70 she chose to act like that yet everyone jumps on the officer for dealing with what he was presented with and legally obliged to resolve whilst keeping both parties alive. If someone of any age tried to push you under a truck would you not be a little ticked when you were admonished for not letting her?

Every side of the argument is valid. Free society and all that.

In that situation though, if it were me..."Please don't make me do this.....why don't you just calm down it's only a ticket......look your not giving me a choice....those trucks are going awfully fast love........Oh well I tried"

ZAPPPPP!