La Marmotte Route
schweiz
Posts: 1,644
Can anyone clear up some confusion I have about the route for La Marmotte. The official website and many others show the route as going over Col du Glandon and some tour operators e.g. www.sportingtours.co.uk/events/marmotte.html show the route going over Col de la Croix de Fer. One, http://www.cyclosport.org/ describes the route over Col de la Croix de Fer and then provides a GPX file for the route over Col du Glandon.
Cheers
Andy
Cheers
Andy
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Comments
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It goes over the Glandon. It used to go over the Croix de Fer until a few years ago I believe0
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+1.
I believe the Croix de Fer was closed for the summer road/tunnel work a few years back so they changed to the Glandon and they haven't changed back.Rich0 -
Til you see the descent of the Glandon...Le Blaireau (1)0
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Descent of the Col du Glandon, beautiful eh:
But be careful, this poor fcker bought it a few years ago in the Marmotte and took a marshall with him:
I think Thursday's Dauphine Libere stage goes over some of the Marmotte's route but in reverse.0 -
Unless I'm mistaken, you climb the Glandon then left onto the Croix de Fer, summit is approx 2km. Then descend towards St.Jean for the next bit over the TelegraphM.Rushton0
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The climb of the Croix de Fer / Glandon is essentially the same from Allemont until you reach a junction towards the top. But the Marmotte turns off for the Glandon, this is the left turning.
As the memorial reminds, the descent is a bit hectic with loads of guys excited about the prospect of racing down but lacking the skills to do it safely. The muppetry on display is shocking.0 -
Hi Andy
Yes i think the previous post was correct - the route was changed in 2004 i think and hasn't reverted back since - safety was also considered as there were even more problems descending the more trecherous croix de fer upper slopes... the more recent route is (in my opinion) easier technically and perhaps makes for a slightly faster course...
The Dauphine race goes over the croix de fer then descends the glandon (same descent as in marmotte) this Saturday...before finishing on the other side of the Maurienne valley below the col de madaleine summit.
Martyn0 -
I genuinely don't get it. "Treacherous descents"? The roads are well surfaced (loads better than the surfaces in Surrey), wide and not very steep, much less steep than in many UK sportives. You can see a long way ahead as there are few or no trees in the way and line the corners up nicely. Whilst the roads on the Marmotte are not closed there is very little traffic on the day as most drivers choose to stay away. The drivers that do show up are more considerate than those you'd find in a UK sportive. There ARE lots of cyclists on the roads but I saw very few "numpties" on the Marmotte last year.
All in all I would say that the descents on the Marmotte (and for that matter the Etape) are MUCH safer than on the UK sportives I've done.
The only risky bit on the Marmotte is the first tunnel on the descent off the Glandon which comes up a bit unexpectedly.0 -
Well I've not heard of people dying in the UK. Maybe there are accidents but the Marmotte has a death toll to it and I've seen more horrific accidents in a few Marmottes than in all the other events I've done combined. Anecdotal I know and of course most riders survive unscathed. Enjoy the day.0
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What has happened is that until 2004 the route went over the col of the Croix de Fer. Then in 2004-2006 there was construction work on the tunnels on the descending side and so the route switched to the neighbouring Glandon col -- the two actual cols being only a couple of kms apart and sharing the same 20 km approach if you are coming from the Bourg d'Oissans. The route has never reverted back to the pre-2004 version. So basically you ride the ascent of the Croix de Fer until about 2 km to go, then turn off on to an adjoining road, crest the Glandon and ride its descent instead.
Regarding the descent, when I rode this event in 2005, one guy was involved in a fatal accident and I saw the aftermath of another 5 (collar-bone type results) on the upper half of the climb. On a map you look at the Glandon and see that after the initial hairpins the descent looks to run pretty straight. Except that in reality the road is less than 2 cars width in places near the top and the 'straight' sections involve a couple of dog-leg corners and bends, that, if you get the speed or line wrong going through them means you risk running off the asphalt, making a crash at speed likely. People get psyched up and ride beyond their actual capabilities, especially on that first descent.
Further down, once you pass though a village, the road is better, wider, but in a few places there will be uphill traffic waiting on the road that have been caught out by the timing of the event. Going around a blind left-hander you may encounter lines of cars waiting -- so don't be tempted to cut the apex unless you can see for sure that the road after the turn is clear, or you might end up through the windscreen of a waiting vehicle. If in doubt, don't cross the white line in the road.
If you have the time a few days prior to the Marmotte, I recommend do a 'pre-ride' over that first col so you can familiarise yourself with the descent - it really helped me, though on the big day itself I wasn't expecting to see cars on the descent (assuming total closure in both directions) so that was a surprise.0 -
I remember a lot of talk last year about the descent off the Glandon, so I was a bit concerned about it all. In reality though, I didn't see any bad riding, or any accidents. Maybe I was just lucky? The descent is narrow in places and twisty, but most people were descending swiftly but steady, no heroics. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but I wouldn't want anyone to get worked up over it, it's a lot of fun, and the payback for all that climbing after all!!
I think the poster who mentioned the tunnel meant the Galibier? I don't recall a tunnel off the descent of the Glandon. Again, nothing to be worried about, but taking your sunnies off beforehand may help.0 -
Quite correct - the tunnels are on the Galibier. Lots of people get caught out by the first one and you have lots of sunglasses scattered across the road.0
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He maybe rode it before 2004 when it went down the other side of the Croix de Fer -- there are tunnels in the lower part of that descent.
Oddly, although the Glandon descent brings you out a bit further to the west than the old Croix de Fer descent, the organisers reckon that you save 10 minutes, as the Glandon is almost continuous downhill and a bit shorter.0 -
chaletverney wrote:the route was changed in 2004 i think and hasn't reverted back since - safety was also considered as there were even more problems descending the more trecherous croix de fer upper slopes... the more recent route is (in my opinion) easier technically and perhaps makes for a slightly faster course...
I don't know if it's since changed but middle/lower parts of the Croix de Fer descent were still closed in summer 2007, so the Marmotte couldn't revert back to its original route for at least 4 years.clanton wrote:I genuinely don't get it. "Treacherous descents"? The roads are well surfaced (loads better than the surfaces in Surrey),
As for ‘treacherous’, if I remember right, there are cobbled sections on the upper slopes, particularly at bends, which can be ‘treacherous’ in wet weather, or to anyone reaching them at speed and taken by surprise by the surface.
The bends on the middle/lower part of the Croix de Fer are also tighter than those on the Glandon, and people misjudge them. The year I did the Marmotte, 2000, a guy went over the top of a parapet wall at one tight left bend, having misjudged it. He had a 12-15 m freefall but fortunately landed in a gravel pile in a builder’s yard and suffered no broken bones.
Because of the cobbles and tight bends on the Croix de Fer, I agree with chaletverney that the Glandon descent is technically easier and faster, and also because about 3/4 down the Croix de Fer there is a sharp climb (just over 1 km at average 6%), which can really ‘throw’ you. And then there are about 5 short tunnels compared to the none on the Glandon descent.0 -
Thanks for all the replies.
Are any of you doing the Marmotte this year? How's the training going? I did 170km and 2400m on Saturday in the baking heat. Average 24km/h so was reasonably happy to say I was out on my own and had a couple of long flat sections into a headwind. Next Saturday I plan to do Brünigpass-Grimselpass-Furkapass-Sustenpass-Brünigpass which from my house is about 190km with 5000m ascent. If I do that okay with a compact then I'll take the VN to France, otherwise it's the BMC with a triple.0 -
I'm doing the Marmotte, but after yesterday's Dragon Ride (8 hrs 17 mins) my morale is a
little low. I had hoped be about 45 -60 minutes quicker. Even though I'm sure I eat enough,
my legs tend to get a bit heavy after about 70 miles. I suppose I'll just have to eat and drink
lots more.0 -
I'm also doing it, training has been hampered by a back problem but that seems resolved now. Having missed nearly a month of training I'll be just looking at getting round and enjoying the day (I was never going to be that quick anyway!).0
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I'm doing the Marmotte, but after yesterday's Dragon Ride (8 hrs 17 mins) my morale is a
little low. I had hoped be about 45 -60 minutes quicker. Even though I'm sure I eat enough,
my legs tend to get a bit heavy after about 70 miles.
You need to be doing 100+ rides most weekends - then your body will get used to it, and not start choking at 70 miles.
I did 6 55 for yesterdays Dragon (I'm 48) - and rued dawdling for the first 15 miles at the start with the laughing group I was in, so could have been a bit faster. I'm aiming for the Marmotte in under 9 nine hours, so I guess with your Dragon time you'll be around the 10 hour mark - unless you improve markedly.0 -
Hi Schweiz, another one heading south for La Marmotte from Switzerland, and riding a VN Euros. Hard to say how the training is going, as I don't have a real benchmark for the big one. Friday was a public holiday so I cycled across the boarder to Feldberg, the highest point in the Black Forest, 163 km around 1700 m. I keep thinking I've got to do three times the climbing with only an extra 10 km! Ended up with comedy sun burn though, large vent in the front of the cycle helmet leading to nice red oval patch on forehead, oh how my children laughed.0
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Don't want to demoralise you further....but if you thought the Dragon was hard, the Marmotte is probably twice as hard.
The climbs are much longer, much steeper (esp the last 8k of the Galibier) and if the weathers good it will much hotter than yesterday - it could be 30 deg plus. The last 15k up Alpe D'Huez in 30 deg afternnon sun can be sheer hell.
If you're striggling after 70 miles of the Dragon, this isn't good news for the Marmotte.
This is why peoplel say it's the daddy of all sportives.0 -
Can certainly vouch for the difficulty additional temperature heaps on - I did the 2006 Etape where the temp was exceeding 40 deg C on Alpe D'Huez!0
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Heat - make sure you keep one of your bottles filled with plain water later on and pour it over your neck & head when it gets hot.
Other tip from the last couple of Marmottes is to carry a cycling cap. Take off your helmet on the start of long climbs & hang on handlebars, use the hat if needed to protect from the sun. Pour water on the hat too. I know you are supposed to be helmeted at all times but I've never had anyone take issue as I climb Galibier at 5 kmh.
bs147 - I remember that Etape well, there were people suffering in the gutters all the way up the Alpe. I cramped horribly but made it.0 -
if it's hot make sure you drink two full bottles on the descent of the galibier - you have plenty of time. last year by the time i got to ADH i could barely pedal and reach for the bottle at the same time, and ended up with the mother of all cramps..
enjoy it - i can't do it this year due to injury and am really pi##ed off about it. yes it is a real struggle, but a fantastic ride. remember to look at the scenery when times get tough - really inspiring to see how far up you have climbed.0 -
Coulcher - Alpe D'Huez was carnage that year - never seen so many grown ups in pieces! I too was cramped up despite having drunk loads, I was a cycling zombie! Glad to have made it, though would like to be in better shape at the bottom of the climb this time round!0
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Term1te wrote:Hi Schweiz, another one heading south for La Marmotte from Switzerland, and riding a VN Euros. Hard to say how the training is going, as I don't have a real benchmark for the big one. Friday was a public holiday so I cycled across the boarder to Feldberg, the highest point in the Black Forest, 163 km around 1700 m. I keep thinking I've got to do three times the climbing with only an extra 10 km! Ended up with comedy sun burn though, large vent in the front of the cycle helmet leading to nice red oval patch on forehead, oh how my children laughed.
Hiya Term1te,
I wanted to get to the 170km mark purely for psychological reasons. I'm lucky in that I don't have to go far to get some long and steep climbs to train on, so my climbing should be okay. I did the AlpenChallenge in Graubunden last year which is 220km/4000m in 10 hours having only done a couple of 150km+ rides in my 4000+km of training although there was some great teamwork with some really well paced lines on the sections between the climbs which helped enormously. I'm hoping that in the Marmotte something similar happens between Glandon and the Telegraphe rather than just several thousand riders riding alone. My planned training ride next weekend should give me a true idea about what time I can expect though. What's it like for training up where you are? I was in Rheinfall region over Auffahrt this year, unfortunately not with the bike, and it looked like there were some good roads through rolling hills. There's a few sportives later in the year up there, so I might pop up. As for the sunburn...that's why a wear a cap under my helmet...and don't have any mocking children!!!
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another marmotter here
I managed the dragon yesterday in just under six and half hours - went off way too fast and died at the first feed stop. it was then 130k's of painful limping... lesson learned though and the marmotte will be paced a little more sensibly.
i'm aiming for under 9 hours, hoping for around 8:30. its difficult though to judge the pacing and times as its a bit chunkier than my usual sunday ride... :0 -
I too did the Dragon yesterday (6:42) and am doing the Marmotte in 3 weeks! I am hoping to try and go sub-8:49 for Gold but this may be a struggle so will have to see how I am going on the day.Rich0
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I reckon that 8:17 in the Dragon (23kph) is more like to be equivalent to 11-12hrs. Reckon the key to the Marmotte is sure and steady. Pace yourself on the climbs and enjoy the descents (there isn't much else).itisaboutthebike wrote:I'm doing the Marmotte, but after yesterday's Dragon Ride (8 hrs 17 mins) my morale is a
little low. I had hoped be about 45 -60 minutes quicker. Even though I'm sure I eat enough,
my legs tend to get a bit heavy after about 70 miles.
You need to be doing 100+ rides most weekends - then your body will get used to it, and not start choking at 70 miles.
I did 6 55 for yesterdays Dragon (I'm 48 ) - and rued dawdling for the first 15 miles at the start with the laughing group I was in, so could have been a bit faster. I'm aiming for the Marmotte in under 9 nine hours, so I guess with your Dragon time you'll be around the 10 hour mark - unless you improve markedly.Rich0
