'Trueing' wheels. Servicing, etc..

iclestu · June 2009

Day off today so thought I'd give the bike a clean and degrease/re-lubricate the chain (1st time I have done this).

Think I managed ok, for the most part, although definately will do some things differently next time (like change into an old shirt 1st :roll: ) however, i did notice when I was spinning the rear wheel afterwards that it is all 'wobbly'. The front wheel is v.slightly 'out' but the rear is really quite noticable. It doesnt wobble so far as to catch the brake pads, but it definately does wobble. Noticably.

What's the upshot of this? Obviously I am going to be losing a little efficiency (darn it - no more 40mph+ rides for me then!) but more seriously, it won't collapse on me? will it? I know I can take it to a bike shop to get it 'trued' (roughly how much does this cost btw?), but could I just wait until I have a few more miles under my belt and get the whole bike 'serviced'?

On the subject of servicing: I had a look at Evans website about this. £55 every 3-6 months seemed reasonable to me (kicks the ass out of pertol costs for sure!), but I have absolutely no experience of this? Am I as well at evans as elsewhere (there is one quite near my work)?

People, please let me draw (once again) on your wealth of experience and wisdom in these matters!

Also as an aside- saw a little bit on Evans website about this being popular, need to book in advance, etc. In your experience are bike shops (Evans included) likely to be glad of this kind of business or is it just a means to an end (if they do the 'servicing' for Mr A then they can sell him the parts, upgrades and bikes)?

laughingboy · June 2009

This post would probably be better placed on the "The Workshop" part of the Commuting forum, but I like truing wheels, so here goes:

If the rim is not straight, the first thing to rule out is any broken spokes. If you have a broken spoke, do not ride it, take it to bike shop/buy a spoke and replace.

If you do not have a broken spoke then 'a stitch in time saves nine" - true your wheels now, rather than later. You can get your LBS to do this for £20-£30 a pair (Warning - do not take my word for this - prices may vary), or you can buy a spoke nipple spanner (titter - ooh I said nipple!) and learn how to do it yourself. It is not rocket science.

The wheel has left hand spokes and right hand spokes. The rim is held in place by these opposing forces.
Tightening the nipple on left hand spokes will move the rim to the left.
Tightening right hand spokes will move the rim to the right.
Loosening right hand spokes will also allow the rim to move to the left.

Be patient. Make only small, quarter-turn adjustments at the nipple, and you can't go too far wrong.

Here's a video about how to do it. He talks about lateral alignment at about 2 minutes in.

http://bicycletutor.com/wheel-truing/

prj45 · June 2009

laughingboy wrote:

Here's a video about how to do it. He talks about lateral alignment at about 2 minutes in.

http://bicycletutor.com/wheel-truing/

Cor, bugger that, I'd rather slip my lbs 15 squid.

fossyant · June 2009

It's easy when you know how, but you need to remember to tighten a spoke on one side, and loosen one next to it on the other side - this stops the wheel going 'egg' shaped.....

I've managed to keep a lad at work going for a few months on a totally knackered wheel - got it straight enough for him to use it until he got some new wheels (properly dented and bent they were).

el_presidente · June 2009

Re servicing - if you can clean & lube the chain then £55 to Evans every 3-6 months is a rip-off. To your clean & lubing process, add pumping up the tyres, checking the brake pads and eyeballing the cables, and that's about all they will do.

Ervery so often you might want to strip & regrease hub, headset and BB bearings but to be honest on a modern bike you can leave them for years with little if any issues

Aidy · June 2009

Certainly every three months is excessive.
Every 6? Maybe.

If you're only on road, then once a year (if you keep your chain clean and lubed, and don't leave the bike outside to the elements 24/7) is probably fine.

£55 for a completely strip down and regrease isn't an awful price, but there's nothing that's particularly complicated to do yourself in an evening with a few basic tools. I'll tend to do things myself as they feel off.

Truing wheels isn't hard, but it is an acquired skill, and it's not ideal to be trying to true a wheel if you need it to ride into work the following day!

laughingboy · June 2009

Aidy wrote:

£55 for a completely strip down and regrease isn't an awful price, but there's nothing that's particularly complicated to do yourself in an evening with a few basic tools.

Yes, it's the old phrase: give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and it's goodbye Captain Birdseye.

In other words, if you are comfortable with the idea of spending £100 per year on what is very basic maintenance etc, then that's fine. But if you fancy that you might enjoy a little tinkering with your bike, then use the web or a bike maintenance book (the books by Leonard Zinn are meant to be good) and buy a cheap bike tool kit (or buy specific tools as you need them).

As an investment, you cover your costs in one service. That's 200% annual return - investment fund managers would kill for a return like that! And if your bike fails on a Saturday night, you can fix it yourself and ride all Sunday :-)

The Rookie · June 2009

Get a nipple spanner and try, worst case you still end up taking it to the LBS, best case you do it yourself and save a wedge!

My daughters front had a wobble, gave it a go (spanner from the lidl £25 bike kit), 5 mins later one impressed daughter (Not easy at 15 you know) and a tenner batter off and one straight wheel, recenlty did the wifes rear (only had a slight wobble - and yes I'm still alking bikes) as well.

Simon

prj45 · June 2009

The Beginner wrote:

Get a nipple spanner and try, worst case you still end up taking it to the LBS

No, worse case is you do it wrong and your wheel craps out on you at 20mph in traffic.

iclestu · June 2009

Sorry to Bump this guys, but things have moved on a bit here and I would value some experienced opinons on it....

Ok, so I checked out the video (thanks laughingboy) but chickened out of giving it a go reckoning that I'd rather spend £15 getting it done 'professionally' (might come back to this DIY maintenance lark later - but for the time being lets get it done by the pros). So I trundled off the 7 miles to my lbs (at least the most local).

Guy in the lbs tells me the rim is twisted and I need a new wheel, which I had not heard of, but hey - he is the expert with the spanner, right? So he quotes me £30 quid for a new wheel, which I agreed to without a fuss (would have been £15 quid to have the old one trued anyways, so hey ho - $hit happens) - I go away for a wander round town for an hour or so to let him fit it.

On my return the guy has fitted a wheel that has a noticably thinnner rim to the previous one (but again - he is the expert) and he tells me that he needed to fit a different type of inner tube (because new rim needs different valve) and 'the beading on my tyre didnt look that great so he 'daren't' pump it up to the pressure I had on the front' but it was ok because he still had about 45PSI in there (the pressure on the front was about 65PSI on tyres with 50-75 PSI marked on the rim). Again, I just kinda took him at his word and paid up and cycled off quite happy....

Now, fast forward 75 miles & 1 week,

This morning said tyre had 50PSI in it (I know the lbs guy had 45 PSI, but I was at the min for the tyre, right?) when on the way to work "bang" - no warning, nothing, big gash in the side-wall of said tyre and a SERIOUS brown-trouser moment for your intrepid newbie cyclist.

Now short of a planned 'revenge of the squirrells' complete with police stingers i see only 3 possibilities here:

1. This just happens to cyclists from time to time, particularly heavier ones banging down a hill on a rear tyre designed to carry someone 5 stone lighter, and I should just mtfu, quit whining and buy a new tyre.

2. The tyre is faulty (it has only done about 350 miles ish - as has the bike!) - in which case I might have a bash at emailing the bike vendor to complain (worth a bash for a 'goodwill' voucher or 2, no?

3. I should be really worried about the guy in the lbs and go to evans the next time even tho it is about 5 miles further away and a b!tch to get back from on public transport.

Which of the 3 (or is there an interesting 4th possibility I have not considered?) is the most feasible?

btw - Please do let me know if it is not appropriate to bump an old thread like this?

Oddjob62 · June 2009

Something sounds dodgy here. He charges you to change the rim (still not sure what a "twisted rim" means), then changes your tube because it's "not compatible with the rim" again :?, but doesn't suggest you change the tyre with the "dodgy beading", and instead pumps it to less than the minimum recommended pressure. There is a minimum there for a reason, and underpumping a tyre can be as bad as overpumping a tyre.

PS, i'm not an expert by any means, but have just finished the first week riding my first self built rear wheel, so have done a fair bit of reading up on the subject.

laughingboy · June 2009

iclestu wrote:

This morning said tyre had 50PSI in it (I know the lbs guy had 45 PSI, but I was at the min for the tyre, right?) when on the way to work "bang" - no warning, nothing, big gash in the side-wall of said tyre and a SERIOUS brown-trouser moment for your intrepid newbie cyclist.

Now short of a planned 'revenge of the squirrells' complete with police stingers i see only 3 possibilities here:

1. This just happens to cyclists from time to time, particularly heavier ones banging down a hill on a rear tyre designed to carry someone 5 stone lighter, and I should just mtfu, quit whining and buy a new tyre.

2. The tyre is faulty (it has only done about 350 miles ish - as has the bike!) - in which case I might have a bash at emailing the bike vendor to complain (worth a bash for a 'goodwill' voucher or 2, no?

3. I should be really worried about the guy in the lbs and go to evans the next time even tho it is about 5 miles further away and a b!tch to get back from on public transport.

Which of the 3 (or is there an interesting 4th possibility I have not considered?) is the most feasible?

Nightmare! All in all, Im just glad you're OK.

As for the tyre, I'd be guessing, but if the sidewall of the tyre has a gash in it, then something has caused it: either a faulty tyre, a stanley-knife wielding moron, something you rode over, or it was caused by not having enough air in the tube, so you got a major 'pinch flat'. In these scenarios, usually only the innertube gets damaged (it is trapped between the floor and the wheel rim until a puncture occurs). But it is possible for the sidewall to be similarly damaged I suppose.

In your shoes, I'd maybe take the bike back to the shop, and ask them what they think happened. They might advise whether you stand a chance of new tyres from the manufacturer. They might also see if it is related to the work they did. God forbid.

Also, if your bike is that new, I'd be asking the bike manufacturer why you had to change your wheel so soon. :x Good luck, and keep cycling.

heftyrider · June 2009

Nothing to do with your weight. I'm much more than 5st overweight and had have had no problems with tyre on MTB, Hybrid 35C and road 25c tyres. Spent a fair bit of time researching and speaking to shops etc regarding weight and in the whole shouldn't cause problems. things might wear out quicker but not explode after 75 miles!

lost_in_thought · June 2009

Hmmmmmm.

How long have you had the bike?

Did you buy it from Evans? If so, did you contact Evans about your out-of-true rim? Do you still have the old rim? Do you prefer the new one?

It seems that LBS guy may have been a little irresponsible in his approach to your issue.

He defnitely should have told you he was going to have to replace your wheel with a completely different sized one, resulting in a new inner tube.

I echo the comments made above - if you had a new inner tube why on earth not a new tyre? If the inner tube you had already was the wrong size, then they tyre would probably have been too, or he was making it up about the tube. Also, did he show you what he meant about the 'dodgy bead'?

Whereabouts are you? I thought you were in London for some reason...

il_principe · June 2009

Your LBS sounds a tad dodgy - although I wouldn't trust Evans to service my bike (yes yes I know there are some good Evans' out there but I've encountered enough ignorance, and poor servicing ability to put me off for life). Are there any other Evans' near you?

As for servicing, once a year should be plenty, just keep the bike clean and lubed in the meantime, and when you book the service make sure you specify what you want doing - ie BB looked at, cables replaced, hubs serviced etc, otherwise they may just give it a cursory once over and no tlc!

Sheldon Brown's (RIP) site is great for maintenance tips/tricks:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/

It would probably help us to know what bike you have, what wheels/tires etc.

Oddjob62 · June 2009

You're gonna have trouble taking it back to where you originally bought it if the rim has been changed (assuming they notice)

lost_in_thought · June 2009

Oddjob62 wrote:

You're gonna have trouble taking it back to where you originally bought it if the rim has been changed (assuming they notice)

That's why I was asking if he still had the old rim... and where he was based...

biondino · June 2009

So, I now have two chain cleaners. Can someone advise me what liquid I should actually clean my chains with? I know Park do some fancy liquid (and I know it works, thanks to lovely linsen) but I bet it's really dear. Any thoughts as to alternatives?

Oddjob62 · June 2009

lost_in_thought wrote:

That's why I was asking if he still had the old rim... and where he was based...

"Ohhh looks like that was damaged during the removal process, sorry can't help you there." - Devils Advocate

iclestu · June 2009

Hey guys, thanks for all those responses. A wealth of experience and wisdom as always! To answer your questions....

No, the bike was not bought from Evans. I got it mail order. I posted a few weeks ago to ask if I had a BSO. The general summary of responses was yes, but it might do and was much better the the crap Aldi or Tesco might sell. Here is the link to the bike:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Land-Rover-Torr ... 167&sr=8-1

I am based just outside Barnsley.

Yes, there is an evans at Castleford which is quite close to work.

Unfortunately, i dont have the old wheel. i left it with the lbs (he did ask if i wanted it, but i had cycled there and was intending to cycle back - not an easy feat with a wheel in one's arm I'd guess).

The old wheel that came with the bike was 'labelled' Land Rover They are 700c but as wide as I'd expect to see on a mountain bike. New wheel is GX something and noticably thinner. Not sure I really have a preference - couldn't really compare because all I noticed was the lower pressure (and even that I am not 100% sure was anything other than my imagination).

The rims were true when new. I've had the bike about 2 months.

The reason for the new inner tube was that the valve for the old inner tube was a schrader valve and would not fit through the valve hole for the new rim.

No, he never showed me the bead, but the bike was all assembled by the time I got back to the shop.

Now - an update:

Have had the opportunity to have a much closer look at the damaged tyre as i have spent some time fitting the replacement (more about this in a sec!) and the 'gash', as I rather ineloquetly described it above, is more accurately described as a section about 3 inches long where the side of the tyre has separated from the bead which obviously allowed the inner tube to 'pop' out.

An interesting point tho... The tyre was a 700x35c. The new tube the guy at the lbs fitted was 'stamped' as 700x19-23 - surely there is something far wrong here?!

Anyways, went to Evans and bought a new tyre. I know appearances are not everything, but visiting Evans was a world apart from the lbs experience. Seemed so professional, etc. I took the guys advice and got a thinner, 700x28c, tyre (I only ride on the road - so this is good advice, yes?) and decided just to replace the front tyre as well*

Hope that should sort it.......

I am completely unimpressed with this lbs and do not intend using it again. I have still not quite decided about complaining to lbs or bike retailer or just chalking it all up to experience. What do you guys reckon?

Oh - am I likely to notice an improvement with the thinner tyres?

*Guessing the blow out was probably not the 'tyre's fault', but I'd much rather be safe than sorry. Besides, the bike would look silly with a thinner tyre on the back and a thicker one on the front, no?

lost_in_thought · June 2009

Oddjob62 wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

That's why I was asking if he still had the old rim... and where he was based...

"Ohhh looks like that was damaged during the removal process, sorry can't help you there." - Devils Advocate

Don't know what you're talking about - it was never changed. I just arrived here with my bike which has never had a new wheel not even a little bit and thought you would sort it out for me because you're so nice.

il_principe · June 2009

iclestu wrote:

Hey guys, thanks for all those responses. A wealth of experience and wisdom as always! To answer your questions....

No, the bike was not bought from Evans. I got it mail order. I posted a few weeks ago to ask if I had a BSO. The general summary of responses was yes, but it might do and was much better the the crap Aldi or Tesco might sell. Here is the link to the bike:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Land-Rover-Torr ... 167&sr=8-1

This is the big prob with buying a bike a: online and b: from a non cycle specific retailer. I appreciate this is not helpful but you've learnt a lesson the hardway. Cheap bikes have cheap components that have a tendency to fail quickly.

iclestu wrote:

Unfortunately, i dont have the old wheel. i left it with the lbs (he did ask if i wanted it, but i had cycled there and was intending to cycle back - not an easy feat with a wheel in one's arm I'd guess).

The old wheel that came with the bike was 'labelled' Land Rover They are 700c but as wide as I'd expect to see on a mountain bike. New wheel is GX something and noticably thinner. Not sure I really have a preference - couldn't really compare because all I noticed was the lower pressure (and even that I am not 100% sure was anything other than my imagination).

The rims were true when new. I've had the bike about 2 months.

The reason for the new inner tube was that the valve for the old inner tube was a schrader valve and would not fit through the valve hole for the new rim.

No, he never showed me the bead, but the bike was all assembled by the time I got back to the shop.

Now - an update:

Have had the opportunity to have a much closer look at the damaged tyre as i have spent some time fitting the replacement (more about this in a sec!) and the 'gash', as I rather ineloquetly described it above, is more accurately described as a section about 3 inches long where the side of the tyre has separated from the bead which obviously allowed the inner tube to 'pop' out.

That's pretty unacceptable given the limited mileage you've done. Can you speak to the retailer? It's poss that the lbs has done something weird on fitting the tire tho.

An interesting point tho... The tyre was a 700x35c. The new tube the guy at the lbs fitted was 'stamped' as 700x19-23 - surely there is something far wrong here?!

Anyways, went to Evans and bought a new tyre. I know appearances are not everything, but visiting Evans was a world apart from the lbs experience. Seemed so professional, etc. I took the guys advice and got a thinner, 700x28c, tyre (I only ride on the road - so this is good advice, yes?) and decided just to replace the front tyre as well*

Hope that should sort it.......

Right call on the 28's.

am completely unimpressed with this lbs and do not intend using it again. I have still not quite decided about complaining to lbs or bike retailer or just chalking it all up to experience. What do you guys reckon?

Oh - am I likely to notice an improvement with the thinner tyres?

Yes - tires (rolling resistance) makes a big difference. One of the cheapest ways to up speed, you may be less comfy. Make sure you keep the pressure's up. Low pressure will make going far tougher than it should be.

To be honest, whilst the LBS sounds a bit cr@p, you bought at the bottom end and sadly will most likely suffer component failure as a result. I appreciate that £250 is a lot of money, sadly though it won't buy you much quality these days. If I were you I'd start saving for a better bike now, either that or you may well end ups spending a fortune replacing bits on this bike. Again I appreciate this may sound snobbish or unhelpful, I don't mean to be either, but don't want you to end up chucking money down the toilet. You seem to be putting in decent mileage so you'll see the benefit of spending a little more on a bike next time round.

iclestu · June 2009

Il Principe wrote:

This is the big prob with buying a bike a: online and b: from a non cycle specific retailer....

I hear you, I really do.

I SHOULD have, done research, asked advice, found an experienced head, etc BEFORE I bought it instead of AFTER. I am a plonker. I know that!

I'll do better next time. Employer does the C2W scheme, but only get a once a year. The time to sign-up for is in, the prime summer cycling month of...... January.

(it is administered through a flexible benefits scheme which just so happens to be done in Jan each year).

I was hoping that I could get through till Jan and then get a proper bike when I have some experience of my own to know what I want. Will it last till then do you reckon? (hoping to be commuting 75-100m a week eventaully - currently 50-75)

btw - IMHO. Honest advice, given genuinely will never run the risk of sounding snobbish or unhelpful

. You guys have thousands of miles under your belt that I just don't. I value your opinion & respect it even if it is not the message one might have hoped for.

I have had my suspicions about the lbs doing something dodgy when they fitted the tyre too. What about that inner tube being the wrong size? Is that not so big a deal given that it is enclosed within the tyre anyway? then why print the size on it?

lost_in_thought · June 2009

For the inner tube being the wrong size, if I understand correctly, it would have been really over-inflated to fill your tyre and probably much more likely to puncture.

However, I could be wrong! Either way - you're right - they mark sizes on them for a reason!

benno68 · June 2009

biondino wrote:

So, I now have two chain cleaners. Can someone advise me what liquid I should actually clean my chains with? I know Park do some fancy liquid (and I know it works, thanks to lovely linsen) but I bet it's really dear. Any thoughts as to alternatives?

I took the chain off (fitted a speedlink) and used a spray degreaser from my local car parts shop which worked a treat. Some people say that doing this will kill the chain, personally I've had no problems.

il_principe · June 2009

Benno68 wrote:

biondino wrote:

So, I now have two chain cleaners. Can someone advise me what liquid I should actually clean my chains with? I know Park do some fancy liquid (and I know it works, thanks to lovely linsen) but I bet it's really dear. Any thoughts as to alternatives?

I took the chain off (fitted a speedlink) and used a spray degreaser from my local car parts shop which worked a treat. Some people say that doing this will kill the chain, personally I've had no problems.

If you clean your chain regularly and stick to roads, there's no need for degreaser. I just use a cloth and give the chain a really good rub down. Then lube, spin, leave for a few hours/overnight, wipedown again - the lube tends to flush out some gunk, relube, wipe excess and done. I see no need for chiancleaners etc with roadies; I've tried a few but find a clean rag works better and is far cheaper!

Stuey01 · June 2009

iclestu,

Have you checked whether the brake blocks are rubbing on the tyre slightly when you brake? you will need to check all the way around. If they are this could very easily have caused the type of tyre failure you have described.

Happened to me once, luckily not at speed. lesson learned

iclestu · June 2009

Stuey01 wrote:

iclestu,

Have you checked whether the brake blocks are rubbing on the tyre slightly when you brake? you will need to check all the way around. If they are this could very easily have caused the type of tyre failure you have described.

Happened to me once, luckily not at speed. lesson learned

Hiya Stuey

I am pretty sure my brake pads have not caused this, no. They are definately not even close to being able to touch the tyre now and I am 99.9% sure that they never were.

vintage_stumpy · June 2009

Il Principe wrote:

Benno68 wrote:

biondino wrote:

So, I now have two chain cleaners. Can someone advise me what liquid I should actually clean my chains with? I know Park do some fancy liquid (and I know it works, thanks to lovely linsen) but I bet it's really dear. Any thoughts as to alternatives?

I took the chain off (fitted a speedlink) and used a spray degreaser from my local car parts shop which worked a treat. Some people say that doing this will kill the chain, personally I've had no problems.

If you clean your chain regularly and stick to roads, there's no need for degreaser. I just use a cloth and give the chain a really good rub down. Then lube, spin, leave for a few hours/overnight, wipedown again - the lube tends to flush out some gunk, relube, wipe excess and done. I see no need for chiancleaners etc with roadies; I've tried a few but find a clean rag works better and is far cheaper!

Personally I think it is a good idea to thoroughly clean your chain every once in a wee while, especially if you have ridden in the rain (even on the road). If you already have a chain cleaner (or two) then all you need is a degreaser. This will also work a treat on your rag for your more regular cleans.

I use this stuff myself from Bilt Hamber. http://www.carnaubawaxshop.co.uk/shop/v ... duct_id=84

They make car stuff, but it is really good, and cheaper than the bike stuff, especially when you can dilute it down to 10-1 and it will still make mincemeat out of really minging old crud on a bike chain. And it is bio-degradable. Also, Ben (who runs the shop in the link) does free postage on orders over £30, so you could treat yourself to some nice wax for the bike while you are there

I like the Rubbish Boys Juiced Edition.
http://www.carnaubawaxshop.co.uk/shop/v ... duct_id=46

Deadeye Duck · June 2009

Ever so slightly off topic, but does anybody know of a cheap wheel truing stand, or a decent make-shift one?

A quick search on the internet brought up a tacx one for £25 but it's sold out everywhere (so I'm guessing it's been discontinued, and the £25 is the final sale price).

main problem being I know my rear wheel is ever so slightly out of true, and being a DIY obsessed fettler by nature, it's killing me, not being able to fix it myself. Also, how do I find out what size spoke nipples I have (wheels are T-due 24s) I think its a 15g or somehing like that, but don't know for certain...

Oddjob62 · June 2009

I just recently built my first wheel using an old fork with some cardboard and tape as guides. Seemed to do the job.

As for nipple size, just get a key that fits all sizes, like the Park tools SW-7

'Trueing' wheels. Servicing, etc..

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