Integrated Headset, what does it mean?

ftwizard

This is my first post, and I have used the search facility, but can't find the answer I'm looking for.
If I buy a bike with an Integrated Headset, does it mean I have to stay with the original headset? what if I want a new, more blingy one?
What is the difference between the various types?
Stupid questions, I know, but anyone have an answer?
Cheers.

nicklouse

Please have a look in the MTB FAQs as there is info and pics in there.

Also Parktools has the standards listed.

you can change and there are better ones out there but not everyone makes them.

but integrated ones you cant see then anyway.

Dazzza

It basically means the bearings sit inside the headtube rather than inside cups that are pressed on.

It is imo a better system, less weight and bits to go wrong, also much cheaper as it usually means two bearings, seals and the top cap.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... delID=6183

ftwizard

OK, I understand now. Is there a particular advantage to this method, or is it just a cost thing.
Also, do the bearing races need to be pressed into the steering head, or would they just be a push fit?
Sorry for the inane questions, but I'm a complete novice, not having owned a cycle since my Raleigh Chopper when I was 14 (I'm 52 now!)

bomberesque

in an Integrated headset, there are no races as such. The bearings are sealed cartridge jobs that slot into a recepticle machined into the top and bottom of the headtube. You don't need a hedset press for this, it's a piece of piss to do the only thing is to set the crown race on the headtube (not really a race either but more of a shaped load bearing surface for the lower bearing to sit on) which I did with a piece of wood and a mallet, but there is a proper tool for this.

There aren't many companies out there making IS headsets at the moment and the simple ones are already so light (because there's almost nothing to them) that it doesn't seem terribly sensible to upgrade. I just fitted a Cane Creek IS3 (I think) to my IBIS Tranny, I considered a more upmarket one (Cane creek make a range going from about a tenner up to a hundred GBP) but in the end picked something from the mddle of the range. I think FSA make them aswell, but i'm not aware of others

do you still have the Chopper? Pics if you have, I would be very jealous (I had a Grifter!)

ftwizard

bomberesque wrote:

do you still have the Chopper? Pics if you have, I would be very jealous (I had a Grifter!)

Yeah, I wished. No I'm afraid I came home from school one day, and my Mum had sold it for a fiver.

dave_hill

Dazzza wrote:

It basically means the bearings sit inside the headtube rather than inside cups that are pressed on.

It is imo a better system, less weight and bits to go wrong, also much cheaper as it usually means two bearings, seals and the top cap.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... delID=6183

With integrated headsets there is the risk that if the bearing seats in the headtube gets damaged or flared, then the frame's a write-off.

There are ways round this with conventional or semi-integrated headsets where the bearing sits in a press-fit cup in the headset.

ftwizard

That's the thing I was concerned about. How do you think that sort of damage would come about, front end impact maybe?

Banned!

flaring a cup is something that rarely happens.

a head on crash at stupid speeds might flare it, but as the fork and wheel will take most of the impac, the steerer will snap before the cup actually flares.

its more of a BMX thing, it very rarely happens im mtb world, so dont worry about it.

dave_hill

Jesus_Christ wrote:

flaring a cup is something that rarely happens.

True, but it's still a possibility

Jesus_Christ wrote:

a head on crash at stupid speeds might flare it, but as the fork and wheel will take most of the impac, the steerer will snap before the cup actually flares.

A head-on collision wouldn't be likely to cause the headtube to flare. It's more often caused by repeated axial impacts, hence it being relatively common in the BMX and dirt-jump worlds. This is why many BMX and jump frames have reinforcing rings or gussets around the headtube.

Reset Racing in Germany will actually machine out flared headtubes, then make up one-off headsets to fit as a repair. But it's very expensive and it means sending (or taking) your frame to Germania.

supersonic

Integrated headsets are not one of the best ideas to come out of the MTB world.

ftwizard

OK, it sounds like it's neither a good thing, nor a bad thing, just another solution. I shan't give it another thought.
Thanks to all.

nicklouse

there is no problem with steel frames with Integrated headsets.

Most Integrated headset on MTBs are on steel frames.

bomberesque

supersonic wrote:

Integrated headsets are not one of the best ideas to come out of the MTB world.

really? My first experience with them is on my current frame, which is dead new so all I've seen so far is the ease of installation. I readied my usual array of headset tools (a hammer, various pieces of wood and an old book), unwrapped the headset and dropped in the top bearing, raised the hammer and wood expecting a fight. It just slid in nicely. I almost felt let down

Seems to me that integrated headsets are the difference between cup and cone hubs and cartridge bearing ones and, although there's nothing wrong with cup and cone hubs, the market has clearly spoken as cartridge bearings now rule the roost.

Are there longevity problems with IS headsets? I can imagine that perhaps the orientation of the cartridge bearing may invite standing water at the seals...

Actually, my old headshok had integrated type cartridge bearings, but much larger diameter so perhaps a poor comparison. Those are still going strong after 9 years. Can't say the same for the needle bearings inside mind you....

supersonic

I prefer cup and cone hubs, but don't really see the parallel with an integrated headset lol. There are far more cup and cone hubs out there than cartridge hubs ;-)

The bearing cartridge rests directly on the frame. At least with headset cups, they will distort first and not the frame.

Interesting read here:

http://chrisking.com/tech/int_headsets_ ... _explain_1

Dazzza

I think that atricle is now a little dated, i believe the design has been improved upon.



As you see the bearings sit on cups that go inside the frame, the design i think ck is on about is where the bearings themselves sit inside the headtube.

supersonic

If they have press in cups then it is an internal headset. (or zero stack)

Dazzza

That picture is of a campag orbit c integrated headset, pretty much what commencals and other bikes use, personally i can't see it being a problem but i will smear some silicon sealant around to keep it in check.

nicklouse

Dazzza


no i am not.

Dazzza

Im not quite sure what you mean?