Local elections

Frank the tank

Nottinghamshire now has a "hung" council after Labour lost conrol for the first time since 1981. Not the biggest shock there has ever been. My area now has two conservatives and one UKIP councillors, I happen to know all three of them on a personal basis and I can honestly say they're all very decent people.

The two tories, I work with one of them in my capacity as an aero engineer. The other is one of my closest friends who I came to know when he became a "befriender" to my autistic son about 12 years ago.

The UKIP councillor is a ery well known local lay preacher who is one of the areas real characters and a really sensitive gent who has the ability to make you smile even when conducting a funeral service, as he has done for both my mum and dad.

If people of the nature of these three get elected throughout the country it just might restore my faith in politicians. 'Cos that is what needs to happen.

teagar

Frank the tank wrote:

Nottinghamshire now has a "hung" council after Labour lost conrol for the first time since 1981. Not the biggest shock there has ever been. My area now has two conservatives and one UKIP councillors, I happen to know all three of them on a personal basis and I can honestly say they're all very decent people.

The two tories, I work with one of them in my capacity as an aero engineer. The other is one of my closest friends who I came to know when he became a "befriender" to my autistic son about 12 years ago.

The UKIP councillor is a ery well known local lay preacher who is one of the areas real characters and a really sensitive gent who has the ability to make you smile even when conducting a funeral service, as he has done for both my mum and dad.

If people of the nature of these three get elected throughout the country it just might restore my faith in politicians. 'Cos that is what needs to happen.

You're showing support for a UKIP councillor?

Oh dear...

tlw1

teagar wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

Nottinghamshire now has a "hung" council after Labour lost conrol for the first time since 1981. Not the biggest shock there has ever been. My area now has two conservatives and one UKIP councillors, I happen to know all three of them on a personal basis and I can honestly say they're all very decent people.

The two tories, I work with one of them in my capacity as an aero engineer. The other is one of my closest friends who I came to know when he became a "befriender" to my autistic son about 12 years ago.

The UKIP councillor is a ery well known local lay preacher who is one of the areas real characters and a really sensitive gent who has the ability to make you smile even when conducting a funeral service, as he has done for both my mum and dad.

If people of the nature of these three get elected throughout the country it just might restore my faith in politicians. 'Cos that is what needs to happen.

You're showing support for a UKIP councillor?

Oh dear...

I read it as support for the people rather than parties.

I am the opposite - didn't know enough about the people so went back to parties morals - it was very hard!

Frank the tank

As Matthew H said I was showing my support of the individuals not the parties they represent.

Even if I were showing support for a UKIP candidate, so what, we live in a so called democracy.

Remember Teagar, Democracy is alright until somebody votes for the other side.

Gavin Gilbert

I've never come across anyone elected at the lower tiers of government who I didn't think was sincerly committed to serving their community, even if I though their individual view of the world was odious.

I suspect that instances of corruption are due to the system corrupting the individual, rather than corrupt individuals getting elected. There are some exceptions of course; Bob Maxwell, Jeffery Archer.

And what's wrong showing support for UKIP? UKIP has a perfectly valid political stance. Down here in London we only had the Euro vote, and UKIP looked a model of respectabilty compared some of the some of the lunatics on the ballot.

teagar

Frank the tank wrote:

As Matthew H said I was showing my support of the individuals not the parties they represent.

Even if I were showing support for a UKIP candidate, so what, we live in a so called democracy.

Remember Teagar, Democracy is alright until somebody votes for the other side.

You mean; we live in a democracy, so I'm perfectly entitled to publicly show my disdain at what and who people vote for. :roll:

I have no interest in the individuals. To take the ubiquitous Nazi example, I'm sure there were some upstanding individuals within the Nazi party. Doesn't mean I'd vote or support them.

I think the popularity of UKIP is indicative of a narrow-minded Island mentalitly, which makes me, as someone who was born in the EU but not in the UK, feel very uneasy.

Smokin Joe

Many people vote UKIP not because they have a Little Englander outlook, but because they are disillusioned by having laws forced on them by unelected comittees and by the massive waste and corruption rife in the EU. Just as many people who live quite happily beside their black and Asian neighbours vote BNP because none of the mainstream parties seem to have the courage to control immigration and stifle debate by screaming "Racist" at anyone who tries to debate the issue.

Crapaud

teagar wrote:

... I think the popularity of UKIP is indicative of a narrow-minded Island mentalitly, which makes me, as someone who was born in the EU but not in the UK, feel very uneasy.

From the Daily Mail:The esteemed Mr Cameron said,

"UKIP is sort of a bunch of ? fruit cakes and loonies and closet racists mostly."

Also, from the same article in the link above...

Later asked to justify his remarks, Mr Cameron said: "I don't think I'm saying anything that hasn't been said before. UKIP have some issues - not least that their own founding member Dr Sked left the party because he thought they had been infiltrated by the far Right."
That was a reference to Alan Sked, who quit the party in 1999. Mr Sked had also alleged that Nigel Farage, UKIP's leader in the European Parliament, once told him: "We will never win the nigger vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us."

Google UKIP+racism for lots of fun stuff.

teagar

Crapaud wrote:

teagar wrote:

... I think the popularity of UKIP is indicative of a narrow-minded Island mentalitly, which makes me, as someone who was born in the EU but not in the UK, feel very uneasy.

From the Daily Mail:The esteemed Mr Cameron said,

"UKIP is sort of a bunch of ? fruit cakes and loonies and closet racists mostly."

Also, from the same article in the link above...

Later asked to justify his remarks, Mr Cameron said: "I don't think I'm saying anything that hasn't been said before. UKIP have some issues - not least that their own founding member Dr Sked left the party because he thought they had been infiltrated by the far Right."
That was a reference to Alan Sked, who quit the party in 1999. Mr Sked had also alleged that Nigel Farage, UKIP's leader in the European Parliament, once told him: "We will never win the nigger vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us."

Google UKIP+racism for lots of fun stuff.

Quite.

finchy

All of the dentists in my local dental surgery are foreign. And the last time that I went to the hospital most of the doctors were immigrants or ethnic minority Brits.

If UKIP or the BNP, with their anti-immigrant rhetoric got into power, does anybody think that these skilled and necessary individuals would stick around? Or do they think that only "undesirable" immigrants would pack their bags?

Eau Rouge

Smokin Joe wrote:

unelected comittees

Tell me more. I presume you don't mean the civil servants in Whitehall.

Frank the tank

johnfinch wrote:

All of the dentists in my local dental surgery are foreign. And the last time that I went to the hospital most of the doctors were immigrants or ethnic minority Brits.

If UKIP or the BNP, with their anti-immigrant rhetoric got into power, does anybody think that these skilled and necessary individuals would stick around? Or do they think that only "undesirable" immigrants would pack their bags?

For every Dr, dentist skilled professional immigrant how many unskilled criminally minded immigrants are there?

Like British nationals there are far more none doctors and dentists than there are doctors and dentists, if you're with me.

I'm not against anyone on the grounds of their ethnic background at all, I'm just on the side of the law abiding fair minded majority.

teagar

Frank the tank wrote:

For every Dr, dentist skilled professional immigrant how many unskilled criminally minded immigrants are there?
.

About as many as the UK.

Just because they're foreign doesn't mean they're criminally minded...

Neither does the fact they want to live in the UK, (like you do), make them criminal, or more likely to be criminal.

I don't think you should be calling yourself fair minded with statements like that. A statement like that is anything but fair.

Though, at a guess, I'd imagine immigration from Western Europe is less of a concern to you, though that may just me being presumptuous. You do after all sympathise with UKIP. Either way you come off worse.

Your anti-immigration arguments aside, (however many unfortunate assumptions it rests on), UKIP policy is shared with unsavoury, often racist groups and people, as you can see in the posts above.

finchy

Frank the tank wrote:

For every Dr, dentist skilled professional immigrant how many unskilled criminally minded immigrants are there?

Like British nationals there are far more none doctors and dentists than there are doctors and dentists, if you're with me.

I understand that not every immigrant is a super-skilled worker, my point is that if an anti-immigrant party ever got into power, then those ones that are vital to this country aren't likely to stick around for long if they're living in a country that is becoming increasingly hostile to immigrants. Would you?

And as for the criminally-minded, have you got any statistics to show that immigrants are proportionally more likely to end up committing crimes than the native British population? Having travelled about a fair bit in Eastern Europe, where most of today's immigrants come from, I can promise you that the streets feel FAR safer than the UK's, especially at night. In fact the only real trouble I've seen is in cities such as Krakow and Bratislava, where planeloads of UK stag weekenders go to spoil our country's reputation

Frank the tank

teagar wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

For every Dr, dentist skilled professional immigrant how many unskilled criminally minded immigrants are there?
.

About as many as the UK.

Just because they're foreign doesn't mean they're criminally minded...

Neither does the fact they want to live in the UK, (like you do), make them criminal, or more likely to be criminal.

I don't think you should be calling yourself fair minded with statements like that. A statement like that is anything but fair.

Though, at a guess, I'd imagine immigration from Western Europe is less of a concern to you, though that may just me being presumptuous. You do after all sympathise with UKIP. Either way you come off worse.

Your anti-immigration arguments aside, (however many unfortunate assumptions it rests on), UKIP policy is shared with unsavoury, often racist groups and people, as you can see in the posts above.

The very point I was making was that the ratio amongst immigrants would roughly be the same for British nationals.

I have not said immigrants are MORE LIKELY to be criminally minded.

And where have I stated I sympathise with UKIP? In my OP I said I knew personally the three councillors that had been elected I never said wether or not I voted for ANY of them so you're making assumptions about me based on your political ideology which is a dangerous standpoint IMHO.

guilliano

No idea what elections we had round my way. No information was forthcoming about what we were to vote for or who the candidates were so I didn't bother.

As always I made the assumption that the people involved would be representing their party rather than their constituents and as such they are not worthy of my time. When I am informed of what they stand for and what they will do for my area then I'll make the time to give someone my vote of confidence.

finchy

Frank the tank wrote:

The very point I was making was that the ratio amongst immigrants would roughly be the same for British nationals.

I have not said immigrants are MORE LIKELY to be criminally minded.

Fair enough, but the tone of your post made it sound like an accusation.

Back to your first post, I too want more honest and sincere politicians, but I also hope that they can get their heads around the complex political problems that face this country and the world.

Frank the tank

johnfinch wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

The very point I was making was that the ratio amongst immigrants would roughly be the same for British nationals.

I have not said immigrants are MORE LIKELY to be criminally minded.

Fair enough, but the tone of your post made it sound like an accusation.

Back to your first post, I too want more honest and sincere politicians, but I also hope that they can get their heads around the complex political problems that face this country and the world.

I think that at local council level the councillors are motivated by a desire to make things better for their locality and are genuine people. The problems begin when some then decide to become "career" politicians which invariably means self interest is put at the top of their individual agendas.