Not convinced about Disc Brakes

mangizmo

I am just not convinced that Discs are as good as rim brakes...for the following reasons
Our tandem has Shimano Hydraulic disc back and front along with an additional Magura HS33 rim brake for the stoker....the HS33 is way better than the two disc brakes
Secondly, I have a Ridgeback Dual track 29er Hydraulic with Shimano discs back and front....hmmmm they are not bad, but again I have two other bikes one fitted with standard V brakes, actually you cant get this type anymore...they have a modulator built in to the V brake arm ...shimano brand...really good(the old post type blocks which are easier to adjust IMO) and another with HS33 rim brakes....again, I think the rim brakes are at least as good if not better
I tend to use the old post type V brakes as the blocks are cheaper and easier to adjust, and apart from the "they wear your rim out" argument, I cant see discs are any better really....and usually not as good as Magura rim brakes...even.good cable V brakes seem just as good even in the wet, I can get a pair of meaty V brake blocke (post style) for 99p from a local shop...and they dont wipe out the rims as many claim they do
The other Killer for me is the price of Disc brake pads, they are so expensive, nearly the same price as car or motorcycle pads...crazy....what a ripoff, cycling should not cost a fortune IMO ......anyone else feel the same

projectsome

um no, but that's just me. if you can afford to pay £1000+ for a bike then paying the extra for the disc brakes shouldn't be a problem.

however, if I paid something like £100 for the bike then i'm not really gonna spend that much on disc brakes and will happily go for some v brakes.

dodgy

There's something wrong with your disc setup if your Magura rim brakes are outperforming them. Don't get me wrong, I think rim brakes are equally as capable of locking the wheels on a bike as discs are, but discs should require less effort to achieve the same.

boingboing12345

I simply cant agree with you, I have Avid Juicy 7s and the power and feel in wet and dry is simply light years ahead of rim brakes. When I jump on the road bike I feel like the brakes lack power and feel.

Also I have only change the pads once a year for £20 ish, and as long as you wear them in tehy will last the avearge x country/trail user ages.

Once set up the Avids are hassle free in both wet and dry, were as when the road bike rims get wet the brakes go down the toilet.

I also ride the MTB with my son on the back, on a child seat and the extra weight does not even effect the brakes.

I have used my mates bike with cheap deore disks and thought they lacked power, but even my old hayes sole were more powerful than my exeperiance of rims.

Have you tried bigger disks to increase power ?

mangizmo

I agree that road bike caliper rim brakes are really really poor, so thats wht even on fast club rides, I ride a geared up hybrid with V brakes and 700x23 slicks, plenty fast enough for training, the other guys ride really expensive road bikes, but theres not much in it really, and I find the V brakes way better than road bike caliper brakes which are really bad especially considering the speeds that roadies ride at
I will have to take another look at my disc brake set up then, as thay really dont seem that great to me....but I respect your opinion and it might just be something to do with my set ups

lesz42

i love disc brakes! far less issues then V brakes, and i only have the cheap M485 shimano units


work in the wet too

snotty badger

A good set of Vs in the dry are more than powerful enough IMHO.

But add a bit of mud and thats out the window. If I was building on a budget I'd consider rim brakes.

lesz42

braking is based on tire traction, good discs or V brakes, grip is what slows you down? easy to lock, otherwise


so power has little to do with braking once you get to a certain level of performance, if that makes sense

Raymondavalon

I have to agree with mangizmo on this in certain respects
My roadster has Magura HS33 hydraulic squeezers and, man those brakes are incredible. They have so much feel to them and can stop my commuter on a dime in the dry or wet.

They are better than the Hayes HFX9 units with 160mm rotors on my Kona. However they don't quite match up to the Juicys on my Felt with 185F/160R rotors.

Also the cost of brake blocks vs. pads isn't really debatable in my book, I don't mind paying £15 (triple to what Magura HS33 blocks cost) for a set EBC pads for the Avid or Hayes brakes knowing that these are life and limb components.

I think the main advantage of discs are that they feel very consistent and are lighter, but having the caliper and rotor down at axle level lowers the centre of gravity which is a good design principle.

Lastly, the most annoying thing about rim brakes of any type is the feedback a slightly buckled or untrue rum feeds back to the brake lever.. fortunately you'll never experience that with disc brakes

Bungalow Bill

OP.

I rode my mates V's down the downhill course here I got to the bottom they had gone, well he needed new padsa anyway.

I rode the same hill 30 mins later on my 203's and guess what still there lol.

Discs are the way forward no doubt, the diffrence between cable and V's is a little more difficult, but Hyd > V's every time.

junglist_matty

Yep, discs are much weaker than V's thats why every Downhill racer uses them, thats why every freerider uses them and every bike worth over £1500 has a decent set.


Your comparing censored disc brakes with good v brakes, there won't be much difference, come back when you compare good discs, something like XT, hope mini/m4, Formula Oro etc....

Don't expect to spend £50 on a disc brake and for it to be amazing because it wont.

blister pus

I'd say mechanical discs are easier to maintain and have better modulation because you're the one directly doing the modulating than cheaper hydraulics, so I'd take mechanical discs ahead of Vs because of the mud factor mentioned, and hydraulics in some cases.

tompug

Good for you OP, if your happy using them.
I could probably use inferior brakes on my xc and not need anything better.
Doing dh without good hydraulic disks would be crazy, they have saved me many times inferior brakes would not.

supersonic

I think both systems have their advantages and disadvantages, and are many factors to consider - conditions, weight, rotor size, rim size, leverage geometry, efficiency of power transfer, modulation, rotor/rim/pad materials, heat dissipation, tyres, traction, set up, reliability, cost and more.

I prefer V brakes on the Zaskar LE as I find them easier to adjust to how I like, plenty powerful, light, and cheap to replace.

HS33 can be awesome! Infact with the right pads and rim I would say they take the least lever effort of any brake to lock the wheel.

Daz555

You can come to a very quick stop with a good set of discs with just one finger on the levers - even in the wet. Never had or seen a set of rim brakes that could do the same.

supersonic

Mine do.

snotty badger

People slate mechanical discs too easily too, my Avid BB7 was amazing- easily lock the front wheel with one finger! :shock: Maybe doesn't offer as much feel as a hydro brake but it more than enough power!

rob_mafia

I have discs and don't have a problem but as long as the brakes stop you when you need to stop then there is no worry

drumon

Rob Mafia wrote:

I have discs and don't have a problem but as long as the brakes stop you when you need to stop then there is no worry

Yup, if they stop you and youre happy with it, then thats good!! I have Vs, they are basic Shimano ones, I worked to set them up well, new cables are always a help, and they work a treat in the dry and wet. Hassle free too as far as I'm concerned. Correct tyres for what you ride are significant too, they provide the traction to speed you up AND slow you down safely without falling off, on whatever surface you are riding.

I haven't used discs, but understand the principle that good ones are very reliable and consistent in all sorts of conditions and unpredictable situations, eg. Downhilling MTB etc...

Its about using whats right for what you ride, and looking after the equipment so it continues to work.

nicklouse

mangizmo
sounds like you brakes need looking at. or you just do not have suitable brakes.

2 brakes 203mm Formula The Ones. and 200mm of travel front and rear.

snotty badger

I've never seen a FS tandem 8)

How does it ride?

lesz42

rim brakes should give better stopping performence, larger "disc" but hey


thats a nice tandem!

Biggus86

projectsome wrote:

um no, but that's just me. if you can afford to pay £1000+ for a bike then paying the extra for the disc brakes shouldn't be a problem.

however, if I paid something like £100 for the bike then i'm not really gonna spend that much on disc brakes and will happily go for some v brakes.

Got a point there. And since having disc brakes i've never looked back. Then again, only had V's on bikes when i was a kid, and had some HS33's on my trials bike until i put Hope mini on the front and V on back... Prob best front brake i've ever had.

I really dnt think V's could out perform discs esp in the mud, more clearance for one thing unless your 2 foot under mud haha

Chaz.Harding

I agree with the majority here. I like my discs on my play bike - a 185mm / 160mm Avid Juicy 7 setup at the mo. I say like, as there's just not enough power for me. At the end of a short downhill run, I can smell the pads burning.... :shock:

Which is why I got a 203mm front disc and adapter on order, and an adapter for the back (for the 185mm disc 8) ). However, for everything other than the most extreme riding I do, they are powerful enough. And for the record, I'm 14.5 - 15 stone with kit.

No rim brakes I have had or tried can match the awesome power of good discs, set up well, in any condition. A good set of vee's, or HS33 in the dry will be as good as, and possibly be better than discs (with supersoft pads). But in the wet and mud, especially if you give the discs the supersoft compound, miles better.

Only thing is, if you come off, and bend your disc in a big way and cant straighten it on the trail... You have to either take it off or walk home....

sebastiandangerfield

Locking a wheel has less to do with a brakes performance and more to do with grip (either tyre choice or riding style i.e where your weight is on the bike) so doesn't show how good a brake is.

Secondly, the physical process of braking a wheel from the hub with a disc brake as opposed to the rim with a V, side pull or canti should increase the stopping power massively let alone the actual brakes themselves being more powerfull so i'd guess your discs are set up incorectly.

Chaz.Harding

sebastiandangerfield

Secondly, the physical process of braking a wheel from the hub with a disc brake as opposed to the rim with a V, side pull or canti should increase the stopping power massively let alone the actual brakes themselves being more powerfull so i'd guess your discs are set up incorectly

I think you may be getting confused mate. What you have to remember, is that both the rim brakes, and the disc brakes are posistioned a long way from each other. So if they have the same power, the disc will be massively weaker (ALOT more leverage from the wheel, having a smaller diameter braking surface).

But yes, you are right that disc calipers can be engineered to be alot more powerful (with some hydraulic trickery).

sebastiandangerfield

Sorry, used the wrong word, more efficient would have been better. As it's the slowest turning part of the wheel.

bomberesque

discs>Mag HS33>>Vbrakes

that is all

Kiblams

snotty badger wrote:

People slate mechanical discs too easily too, my Avid BB5 was amazing- easily lock the front wheel with one finger! :shock: Maybe doesn't offer as much feel as a hydro brake but it more than enough power!

Agreed, I personally have only an Avid BB5 on my front with a 160 rotor (and even the stock rotor which is notoriously bad) and a V-brake on the back.

I can lock my front wheel very easily and stop in no time at all with one finger! It's probably worth mentioning that I am 16st so it is no minor feat! I also find myself constantly adjusting the rear brake whereas the disc needs a minor adjustment (turning a small red dial about 3mm) every week or so (pad wear).

Then we move into the performance when the rain starts... the BB5 performs almost as well in heavy rain/mud and the rear brake becomes absolutly useless to the point where a skid becomes impossible using 4 fingers grip and white knuckles.

If I had read this after my first experience with disk brakes I would have agreed that Vs are better as they were some cheap Tektro efforts, but now I have experienced the BB5s I will never go back or doubt the discs again. I do find myself doubting the need to spend more than the £40 I spent on discs though, as I haven't even felt the need to change from the 'bad' stock BB5 rotors.