The Giro - Where did it all go wrong

blazing_saddles

Has Dennis.....Menchov, I mean, been reading this thread?

ellieb

Having just watched the final TT can I just say how tedious that all was*. Especially that bit 2 minutes before the end :shock:




* not

Anonymous

That was ace!

frenchfighter

Interesting thoughts on power metres although I don't think it made much effect.

A true point someone made about these guys not blowing up as much a la Ullrich style.

A predictable Giro which lessened the excitement.

Di Luca's ceaseless attempts to claw back time on Menchov were exciting, it was just a shame that Menchov was so strong. If he had cracked and lost a minute then he would have been forced to go on the offensive.

Note that this is the fastest Giro ever, which is probably the best indicator of it being 'easy'. The lack of mountains certainly didn't help.

Apart from Sastre and Basso's attempt no memorable long solo breaks by top GC contenders.

As someone also mentionned, the lack of real contenders for Menchov to watch deadened it all a bit.

Garzelli's break earlier was very exciting.

Sastre was fanatastic and his two solo breaks showed true class.

As for the Tour, it is the biggest race of the year and always provides excitement. Remember that it will be full of French riders who are more exciting than the Italians in terms of attacking, even if they are not great in GC. Remember too that Contador is racing which basically guarentees excitement.

redddraggon

frenchfighter wrote:

Remember too that Contador is racing which basically guarentees excitement.

Does it though?

csp

I'm trying not to sound sarcastic, but do you think, that, say, Basso, who is one of the riders with an SRM, wouldn't respond to an attack, because he was already doing 500 watts, and if he was doing 550, than that's too much?

avoidingmyphd wrote:

Murr X wrote:

csp wrote:

Can someone explain what powermeters have to do with the race not being exciting?

Simple. Those that want to see powermeters banned are those that either can't afford / can't justify the price or can't get their heads around the technical side of the numbers and therefore are not able to use and benefit from their use properly.

Many who fit into that category don't want others (including pros) to possibly be gaining an "advantage" from something that they are not using / can't use / don't have access to. Its true, I'm serious even if they won't admit it lol!

Anyone who has used a PM in a road race knows that they don't make make the racing any easier... They are not much use in a RR either.

I think I explained that pretty well. 8)

Murr, did you see my post above? You can't seriously think the reason I tentatively floated a ban was because I think it's not fair that Lance Armstrong can't afford a power meter and Ivan Basso can?

I'm more sure about this than when I suggested it above now. My objection to them is that they can (although I'm willing to take Phil's point that it's not clear this is happening)be used to make the race less exciting. And I can see no positive reason to allow them. IF grand tours are getting less exciting, the lesson of this thread is that it's because of an accumulation of little excitement reducers. And this might be one.

I can get my head around the technical side of the numbers, and the specific technicality that concerns me is that riders can avoid breaching their lactate turnpoint. Some can do this more accurately than others using RPE alone, and those that are not so good are more entertaining when you take away their numbers.

Sure, they don't make it any easier to win, but they do make it easier to not blow up. This might not change the outcome at the pointy end of the race (because what you get is a rider climbing steadily and coming in a few minutes down) but it does reduce the excitement for the spectator (because without the meter, the same rider may have attacked, blown up, and come in a few minutes down, but at least we'd have had something to watch).

As far as I can see, the only real responses to this are that (i) these guys are pro's and can gauge their effort, so the meters make no difference. In which case, surely they can cope without? or (ii) you can do same with an HRM, in which case I'd answer that they are less accurate or maybe that we should ban them too.

mididoctors

leguape wrote:

That said, it's been a closer and more engaging race than some GTs where it's all been decided by one or two climbs and I've lost interest in week 3 as they all bide their time trying to avoid a crash.

it wasn't the most boring giro by any stretch... in recent yrs Cunegos win stands out as supremely tedious..

only one team in the race!

having said that this yrs should have been better..on paper that field had the potential for a classic..

frenchfighter

redddraggon wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Remember too that Contador is racing which basically guarentees excitement.

Does it though?

In my book yes. See the comments about Contador here for explanation of why I think that:
http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopi ... =#15356615

diarmuid

Fastest Giro ever, Denis "Vienna" Menchov wins and Danilo "Santuccione" DiLuca second. What a joke of an event.

sampras38

ellieb wrote:

Having just watched the final TT can I just say how tedious that all was*. Especially that bit 2 minutes before the end :shock:




* not

Agreed, and the cobbly streets and dodgy conditons didn't help either. Probably one of the dullest TT's I've ever seen.

mpd62

Is this the cleanest grand tour ever?? the riders look very tired,no more amazing attacks on the climbs, then the rider gets banned in the next few months, ok maybe not so spectacular but is this the way its going to be, the harder we expect it to look the more the peleton look for assistance this years tour could be much the same while waiting for the ventoux stage

blazing_saddles

diarmuid wrote:

Fastest Giro ever, Denis "Vienna" Menchov wins and Danilo "Santuccione" DiLuca second. What a joke of an event.

Yet, I'll bet that, as is the norm, the Tour's average speed will exceed that of the Giro, by about 2kph.
Of course, that will all be due to extra training and recon. :roll:
The Tour has to be the dirtiest race on the calander as the rewards for "gambling" are far greater than any other.

Contador exciting? He doesn't guarrantee squat. Will have to race as instructed or face the consequences and that will depend on whether LA falls off his bike, or not.

micron

Zomegnan hardly got value for money did he? One of the things that marred the race for me was the neagitivity - from the course redesigns to suit certain riders and the Milan fiasco to the negativity of much of the riding.

andrewgturnbull

sampras38 wrote:

ellieb wrote:

Having just watched the final TT can I just say how tedious that all was*. Especially that bit 2 minutes before the end :shock:




* not

Agreed, and the cobbly streets and dodgy conditons didn't help either. Probably one of the dullest TT's I've ever seen.

What the f**k are you guys all moaning about? This was one of the closest Giro finshes in years, the Maglia Rosa was down at the first time check and fell in the last kilometer.

What were you expecting? Dancing girls?

Cheers, Andy

afx237vi

I think they were being sarcastic, Andy, just like mpd62.

moray_gub

micron wrote:

Zomegnan hardly got value for money did he? One of the things that marred the race for me was the neagitivity - from the course redesigns to suit certain riders and the Milan fiasco to the negativity of much of the riding.

What stages were redesigned to suit certain riders ?

diarmuid

afx237vi wrote:

I think they were being sarcastic, Andy, just like mpd62.

good one!

richard wants a baum

Early mountain stages didnt help, no decent block of mountain stages. The route looked like it had something in it but stages like the Blockhaus didnt deliver with massive explosions. Wasnt terrible but not the most exciting race ive watched. What i did find intresting is that alot of riders might be looking good later in the season, like Sastre for the vuelta which has to be the race his looking at cant believe his season target is the giro and will be intresting to see how Basso develops. Armstrong while not looking like his on super form will be creating issues in July for Astana. In a couple of months i wonder if we will look back on the Giro a bit differently?

volvine

my thoughts on power meters is it dosent really matter what your maximum figures are ect if you are not having a good day they dont mean sh*t.
agree with the race radios being scrapped though as the riders know exatley how far people are ect and just ride accordingly sure the cars can get word to the riders but the delay in doing so could make the difference between a succesfull breakaway or not.
also agree with the course all seemed a little easy for the top riders none of them really seemed like cracking although Levi had a bad few days and lost it a little but seemed to get it back later on in the race.

volvine

oh and 1 other thing i personally think the short tt's like the final stage are a joke they need to be longer so people have time to do some damage imo

hevipedal

Not to me I loved it, Menchov was a deserving winner. Asking for it to be harder seems ridiculous. It was hard from the off.............make it harder and what happens? More doping just to keep in the race never mind win it. No, it was a good course and a great battle. Di Luca fought hard all the was, Sastre got better and better, Basso is building well. And Armstrong? Well after 3 years out, training interupted by a broken collar bone, and he finishes 12th - impressive. Can he win the Tour? I don't know but 6 months ago I thought he was dreaming................. Now I can't wait to see it

Kléber

If you were going to write a nail-biting script, you wouldn't have copied this year's Giro. Menchov took the jersey in the TT and kept it to the end, that's a classic formula and less interesting. But he rode an intelligent race and it's just his style to launch wild attacks, both because of his temperament and his abilities.

A really exciting race would see the leader's jersey change shoulders several times, including a few stints back and forth behind the top two riders. We saw this in the Tour last summer, several riders were contenders right to the end. You'd also see the leader attacking his rivals and dropping them. But such dominance is rare, you have to go back to Pantani or Basso and often "extraterrestial" performances can be explained by more sinister reasons than just guts and glory alone.

Next stop the Dauphiné, one of my highlights on the calendar. This year's course is a cracker, with Ventoux plus some serious stages in the Alps as well as a 40km pan flat TT.

blazing_saddles

Just incase Iain, or anyone else fancies another watch. :P
RaiPiu are repeating the race, this week, in the am.
Just starting stage 3.
http://www.raisport.rai.it/dl/raisport/direttaGiro.html

micron

Kleber, that was exactly the race I wanted to see

Tom Butcher

What's this "no riders looked like cracking". Just about all the GC contenders bar DiLuca and Menchov cracked on one stage or another. Midway through people were talking about the race being Leipheimer's to lose and look where he finished.

Yes the first time trial was probably too long - put too many contenders too far back in the GC - and we could have done with the extra climbs on the queen stage and the last 3k on Blockhaus - but all in it's been a good course and a good race.

dave milne

thought it was a very good race personally, less than a minute in it at the end. I certainly enjoyed watching

plectrum

it was enjoyable but I think when people speak about cracking they really mean it.... 10 min+ back race over, pack your bags, go home!

I would have liked to have seen some longer mountain stages with real early challenges so that the last climb really separates the dopers from the men!

not to sure it was a clean race as Di Luca, Menchov & Pellizoti looked at times as if they were riding on flat at 10%!

Real nice performances on occasion by Sastre and I think this puts him in contention for a TdF defence as is a better TT than Contador and perhaps as good a climber although it is still a big if to not expect Contador to walk the Tour as personally I think Armstrong will race for him after making sure Contador is signed up to a long deal at the new team Bruyneel/Armstrong.

squired

In parts the race was exciting. I thought the final climb of the race was great. However, all races need to be structured better. Where possible mountains should be stacked together. By that I mean that there is no point having a 2000m climb in the first part of a stage followed by a large flat section - it serves little purpose. Where there are multiple climbs they need as little valley as possible between them. Riders have become more and more conservative in recent years. If there is a sharp descent and then an immediate jump to the final climb a rider might go on the penultimate mountain. If there is a descent and then 20km of valley they will wait. Thus there is often little point in watching a stage until the base of the final climb these days.

I always remember back to the Tour de France in something like 1990 or 1992 where Indurain went away with a few climbs left and it was all over the place. That sort of racing does not happen now. Having said that, this is a problem with most sports. People are too scared to lose, so don't want to take risks. Cycling is also so team oriented (despite so many people saying it is purely an individual sport) that maybe reduction in team sizes may make racing more interesting.

iainf72

squired wrote:

I always remember back to the Tour de France in something like 1990 or 1992 where Indurain went away with a few climbs left and it was all over the place. That sort of racing does not happen now. Having said that, this is a problem with most sports. People are too scared to lose, so don't want to take risks.

Or the preperation methods favour only going for it on the last climb.

http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=article&id=58

deejay

mididoctors wrote:

it wasn't the most boring giro by any stretch... in recent yrs Cunegos win stands out as supremely tedious..

only one team in the race!

Lessons there, How to "Steal" a Giro Win.

A Hundred years and they learn nothing about a Classic Giro starting South and Finishing North in all those Beutifull Mountains in the Dolomites and Alp's.

This year the riders kept me interested until the Final 10 metres and after last years complete Bore where a wheel sucker won. (yes I know he can do better)
It's just that Bruyneel couldn't get contol again this year which pleased me..