Difference bewtween Audax and Sportive?

geoff_ss

Before injury problems precluded long distances in the saddle I enjoyed riding Audaxes up to 400km and Sportives were almost unknown. I just wondered what the difference is.

All I can see is that a Sportive seems to be a lot more expensive to enter and tends to cater for wannabe racers. Although there was a small competitive element in Audaxes (probably still is) amongst the faster riders at the front it didn't seem to extend down the field. On longer Audax events (300 km plus) and even the more usual 200 km events riders usually had a saddle bag for food, extra clothing and tools/spares that is perhaps unnecessary on Sportives because of the extra support which accounts for the extra cost in part.

Are individual finishing times published for Sportives? I know they are on the continent (even IIRC PBP). Personally the thought of riding an event with several 1000 other riders horrifies me but I guess it has its attractions.

Geoff

Crapaud

There've been a couple of threads on this, Geoff.

Audaxes are about Long Distance riding
Thinking of forsaking sportives for audaxes

My thoughts from What is an audax?...

Crapaud wrote:

.... In sportives the emphasis is speed; audaxing is endurance (distance)

In sportives everything is organised for the rider; route is signposted / marshalled, etc.
On an audax you're expected to be self-sufficient; navigate yourself via a routesheet, organise your own food and drink etc. ...

gavintc

The more events that satisfy a range of tastes and needs is surely good. Personally, I think it is excellent that an amateur cyclist has so many options. I might tease gently on here the audax folk, but in reality, I respect them. I know I could not manage their distances or map read while cycling at speed - good on them. So, crack on chaps and chappesses.

geoff_ss

Crapaud wrote:

There've been a couple of threads on this, Geoff.

Audaxes are about Long Distance riding
Thinking of forsaking sportives for audaxes

My thoughts from What is an audax?...

Crapaud wrote:

.... In sportives the emphasis is speed; audaxing is endurance (distance)

In sportives everything is organised for the rider; route is signposted / marshalled, etc.
On an audax you're expected to be self-sufficient; navigate yourself via a routesheet, organise your own food and drink etc. ...

Ah, yes. Thanks for that. I apologise for re-opening an old topic but I only come here intermittently. I know what it's like; on the model aeroplane forum I spend too much time on it gets a bit irritating when there's yet another thread on 'What's the best trainer 'plane to buy?'

Gavintc: I agree. The more the merrier to suit every taste. I do get a lot of satisfaction in being totally self-reliant when out and I love maps so Audaxes suit me very well. Unfortunately, excruciating shoulder pain prevents my enjoying the long hard days as I once did.

Geoff

Kléber

I'll add the historic difference, in that a sportive is something which, as the name hints, came from France.

A Cyclosportive in France is generally a long challenging ride but unlike a British one, in France all riders must be classed in the order they cross the line and prizes must be awarded to those who cross the line first, whether overall or by age groups. The same is true for a Gran Fondo in Italy.

The fact that awards are up for grabs and that riders are placed means they are generally more competitive but still in a friendly way, those battling for the prizes won't flick rivals into the ditch - something you might see in an Elite race in Italy - or even attack each other.

In Britain sportives have become very popular but the rules mean no classification and prizes can be given, otherwise they'd be classed as races and this would mean all riders would need insurance and the organiser would be obliged to provide a greater degree of safety. So a British ride is more like a Brevet Touristique than a real cyclosportive, something which is like an Audax but where you must complete the given route within a set time.

vorsprung

Kléber wrote:

I'll add the historic difference, in that a sportive is something which, as the name hints, came from France.

You know what? So did the UK audax. Audax UK was founded in the 70s to do validated rides aka "Brevets" for Paris-Brest-Paris in the UK.

See http://www.aukweb.net/handbook/histauk.htm for more details

Spawn of Cabbie

I read someone on here say

'People in a Sportive pretend they are racing but aren't whereas people on an Audax pretend they're not racing but are'

Philip Whiteman

Spawn of Cabbie wrote:

I read someone on here say

'People in a Sportive pretend they are racing but aren't whereas people on an Audax pretend they're not racing but are'

Spot on!

And they can be both equally as enjoyable.

Greenbank

vorsprung wrote:

Kléber wrote:

I'll add the historic difference, in that a sportive is something which, as the name hints, came from France.

You know what? So did the UK audax. Audax UK was founded in the 70s to do validated rides aka "Brevets" for Paris-Brest-Paris in the UK.

See http://www.aukweb.net/handbook/histauk.htm for more details

Of which the first line is:-

"THE IDEA OF AUDAX was first formulated in 1897 in Italy."



But, yes, the original Audax club is French.

Dr U Idh

I thought the difference was that only Audax riders wore anoraks?

TheStone

I nearly did an audax once, till I noticed mudguards were required and there was a maximum speed.

sward29

What's the difference/

About 25 quid.

geoff_ss

TheStone wrote:

I nearly did an audax once, till I noticed mudguards were required and there was a maximum speed.

When I rode the 'wet' Elenith 300 km in about 1985 I can assure you that I was very glad of both my mudguards and my anorak. Riding though bottom bracket deep flood water in the dark was something of an adventure too. I regret to say that it took me nearly 19 hours, much of which was spent in cafes hoping the rain would stop Maximum speed was of academic interest - I was just glad to finish.

Geoff

redddraggon

TheStone wrote:

I nearly did an audax once, till I noticed mudguards were required and there was a maximum speed.

Once you factor in the time for navigation, controls, and a cafe stop, you really reckon you'll be over the max speed?

I doubt it.

zoomcp

Oh dear some of these posts represent another example of people knocking something they have never tried and don't actually know much about. When are people going to stop perpetuating the myth that all Audax events require mudguards?

It's a few (usually 200k and above) events where controls are in cafes or peoples' houses and is just common courtesy to avoid or at least minimise mud splattered backsides on nice chairs. If you go onto the AUK calendar and select 3 line view you will see just how few events have an M denoted in the facilities.

As for the maximum speed; It's there to enable the organiser to know when he has to pitch up by the side of the road or prepare the finish control; and cafes to open; you are welcome to go round faster (up to 30kph average overall including all stops) if you don't want to take advantage of these and even then I think you'll find they will still be open for you. I don't think anybody ever gets round at this speed.

I often get a grupetto on my hilly 100 who go hell for leather and only just manage to get round at 25kph average

Philip Whiteman

zoomcp wrote:

When are people going to stop perpetuating the myth that all Audax events require mudguards?

Rightly pointed out. In fact the majority do not any more. Otherwise I would not ride them!

SunWuKong

sward29 wrote:

What's the difference/

About 25 quid.

and a much better spread after the audaxes.

vorsprung

TheStone wrote:

I nearly did an audax once, till I noticed mudguards were required and there was a maximum speed.

I guess you haven't entered the k&sw 600 I mentioned in the other thread. No one has ever got close to doing that in 20 hours ( ie at 30kph max speed )

Never mind! You just have time to get 2 SAEs and a cheque in the post for the Irish Mail 400 on the 14th of June from Shrewsbury! Slim chance of getting round that at over 30kph, 5300m of climbing

Event entry details here:
http://www.aukweb.net/cal/calsolo.php?Ride=09-898

Website for event here:
http://www.cycleshropshire.org.uk/pengw ... r_2009.htm

TheStone

redddraggon wrote:

TheStone wrote:

I nearly did an audax once, till I noticed mudguards were required and there was a maximum speed.

Once you factor in the time for navigation, controls, and a cafe stop, you really reckon you'll be over the max speed?

I doubt it.

Sure. I'd be knowhere near the maximum speed on any ride ever. I will try an Audax soon and almost certainly love it (I did the Dunwich Dynamo once, does that count?)

I think the problem Audax suffer from is image. I've just had a look over the auk website and it has improved a lot (well there's more links to events with more info). When I looked last year, I couldn't find much info on the rides other than mudguards and max speed. I hope as Audax people you can understand how that will put people off. The sportive websites (at least in the past) have seem much more open, welcoming and informative.

zoomcp

TheStone wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

TheStone wrote:

I nearly did an audax once, till I noticed mudguards were required and there was a maximum speed.

When I looked last year, I couldn't find much info on the rides other than mudguards and max speed. I hope as Audax people you can understand how that will put people off. The sportive websites (at least in the past) have seem much more open, welcoming and informative.

Noted thanks there's a section for organisers of Audax rides to put their own extra info (it's the bit in red) like where it goes and what you get for your entry fee; even the route sheet a map of the route and a GPS but it's often left blank; I'll refer your very valid observations to the new AUK systems man.

Here's a very good example of how much info can be put up (and also an extremely good event, did it last year); we do also need to work on online entry for non AUK members (currently it's members only to keep organisers' emails away from the public domain I believe; AUK has no central payment system each organiser runs the finances for his/her event)

http://www.aukweb.net/cal/calsolo.php?Ride=09-898

jimwin

TheStone wrote:

I nearly did an audax once, till I noticed mudguards were required and there was a maximum speed.

Wrong! Mudguards are not required unless the organiser decides so - and few do so unless there's a specific reason.

And the maximum speed is 30Km/h (18.6mph) which is more than possible in flatter areas, but nigh on impossible on the more 'scenic' routes.

The big differences IMO are:
1. Sportives publish times whereas Audax times are recorded only (you *are timed on an audax, but the time is only marked on your Brevet card and not published).
2. As others have stated, audax routes are not marked, but you are given a route sheet. Sportives have markers on the road (which have been known to be missing or plain wrong). Audax's are now often provided with gpx files which do take the guesswork out of route finding and are more reliable than signposts (assuming you use a GPS).
3. Price... with the caveat that audax's frequently stop at cafes and if you need to stock up on energy there is an additional cost, though the total cost is still a lot less than the average sportive.
4. Competitiveness? I've seen competition in both types of event. Sportives do seem to attract those who like to 'race' (though it's worth mentioning that it's illegal to race on a public road without a licence). The main difference is that audaxes are about rides for all levels of ability rather than pseudo races.
5. Audax rides offer many more distance options.

Stedman

In most 100k audaxes my aim is to beat the first control and in many cases they will just put your time down as the first available time in that control window, however the worst that can happen is that you will be made to wait until the control officially opens.

By the time that you have had a short café stop for some food, your average speed will soon fall away and within the control window times.

I have been on many audaxes where there have been some very good riders; however I have never seen anyone beating the final control and I have never been disqualified for beating any controls!

As for mudguards, I only use these on wet 300k events.

DaveMoss

jimwin wrote:

4. Competitiveness? I've seen competition in both types of event. Sportives do seem to attract those who like to 'race' (though it's worth mentioning that it's illegal to race on a public road without a licence). The main difference is that audaxes are about rides for all levels of ability rather than pseudo races.
.

It's not true that it's illegal to race without a licence, you are confusing the law with BC rules. BC are not the only people who organise races in the UK.

What is true is that a "race" must comply with the cycle Raceing on Highways regulations; and a sportive would not, so would be illegal if it was a race.

sportives too are open to riders of all abilities, in fact I would say ALL sportives are welcomeing to, and enjoyed by, slower riders on all manner of bikes, but some audaxes are not..

The biggest differences are probably between individual events whatever name they call themselves, some audaxes are more like some sportives than they are like some other audaxes and visa versa.