Scary bunch sprints

shmo

My god how do you cope with these big bunch finishes. First time I've managed to stick with the main group and there was so much going on at the end. I felt good but couldn't put the power down when I wanted to. People were going up the outside playing chicken with oncoming cars, people were going backwards through the middle of the bunch, I was getting squeezed on all sides and had to take risks I'd never normally take just to hold my position. So many near accidents I can't even remember them all.

I'm thinking it might be easier to practice breaking away with a couple miles to go.

gandhi

I try to get into the first 5 or 6 before it all starts going off, then just hop wheels to stay near the front until you put the power down. The dream is to have a Team Columbia style lead out train to stop people from being able to come around the outside, but people have to sacrifice their race for that to work.

brownbosh

Experience and practice will teach you how to negotiate them. If there are any sprint skills sessions like we have available at mountbatten every friday night do them!

pinkbikini

Shmo wrote:

I'm thinking it might be easier to practice breaking away with a couple miles to go.

If you have very, very good legs and lungs that's the safest option. Chances are you will end up towing the bunch a little faster and burn yourself out though. Maybe start the break further out? I always love the idea of a break, but the idea and the execution are totally different - you have to be seriously fit to do it solo!

jibberjim

pinkbikini wrote:

If you have very, very good legs and lungs that's the safest option. Chances are you will end up towing the bunch a little faster and burn yourself out though. Maybe start the break further out? I always love the idea of a break, but the idea and the execution are totally different - you have to be seriously fit to do it solo!

In 4th cat races though the stronger people often seem to have beaten themselves up more in the early parts of the race trying to get a break, those willing to chase down have beaten themselves up trying to stop those breaks.

These people are generally the same people, bringing the group back rather than bridging up if they miss a chance. So these people may well be too dead to really drag you back, so there's just the peopel who've sat in, and generally they're completely unwilling to work anyway it seems, more interested in holding out for a chance to sprint for 2nd than risk the win.

So I reckon it might have a shot at working, I'll probably try it one day - nothing else seems to work for me.

voxegam

President's Handicap Trophy Race was it? They got the time gaps a bit wrong I thought with that.

shmo

Yeah it was the presidents. Trying to find some photos of it but none seem to be up yet. There were loads of people around with cameras.

Ste_S

jibberjim wrote:

pinkbikini wrote:

If you have very, very good legs and lungs that's the safest option. Chances are you will end up towing the bunch a little faster and burn yourself out though. Maybe start the break further out? I always love the idea of a break, but the idea and the execution are totally different - you have to be seriously fit to do it solo!

In 4th cat races though the stronger people often seem to have beaten themselves up more in the early parts of the race trying to get a break, those willing to chase down have beaten themselves up trying to stop those breaks.

These people are generally the same people, bringing the group back rather than bridging up if they miss a chance. So these people may well be too dead to really drag you back, so there's just the peopel who've sat in, and generally they're completely unwilling to work anyway it seems, more interested in holding out for a chance to sprint for 2nd than risk the win.

So I reckon it might have a shot at working, I'll probably try it one day - nothing else seems to work for me.

I think the key is having a good jump to get away from the bunch. From what I've experienced people try to get away by slowly upping the pace, or by going on the wrong part of the course

People who try to bridge gaps try to do it by slowly upping speed too, which tends to drag the whole bunch with them

don key

I jump at speed and rarely ever have anyone on board, if it is agressive enough most of them just give up, go from mid bunch and power past them almost as if sprinting, it has proved very fruitful at times and it's also my best move, let the break get sixty metres and aim to catch them after 800 metres thereby travelling at fourteen thirteenths of the breaks speed.

Bhima

Yes, i'm practicing the break-away thing. The trick is to do it subtly. I was in an unofficial road race the other month and some guy shouted "NOW!!!!" when he went off the front, expecting his mate to follow. When his mate didn't follow, he started shouting "GO GO GO GO!!!!!" and the bunch immediately shut him down... :roll:

I'm used to getting high acceleration for a breakaway from a high cadence, but this isn't exactly "subtle", so i'm practicing my lower cadence stuff.

Hopefully, a few of my mates will get into road racing soon, so we'll be putting a team together. It's probably best if we keep it quiet during the race though, or people will be looking to get on the back of the lead-out train!

eh

You can't attack in a subtle manner, anyone who has their wits about them will see you attack. Often if you know the riders and the course you can predict who and where. Also you can attack from the front of the bunch, not text book but if do it hard enough and no one can be arsed reacting then it can work.

But the big rule of attacking is to make the jump hard and that means high cadence, then once you get a gap you need to settle into a solid TT pace and hope the bunch doesn't react.

jamiecurry

Either you are a sprinter or not, if your not a sprinter and cant sprint drop back and let the fast men run the finnish.

Slower riders in the last KM really muck things up, slower riders really should just drop back, same for sprinters that arent feeling too good either, lead it out by all means but dont contest it. Winding it up on the front in the last 400m takes balls of steel and nerve for people to hold their line under speed something most will bottle out under and cause crashes.

Tom Butcher

I don't think anyone is going to think - well I've not got much of a sprint on me - best drop back and let the other lads contest this one.

If you are in there at the death and have a decent position in the bunch then any rider is going to go for it - this isn't mucking things up for the sprinters, it's racing - it's up to someone with a kick to get the right position so they can use it.

sheffsimon

jamiecurry wrote:

Either you are a sprinter or not, if your not a sprinter and cant sprint drop back and let the fast men run the finnish.

Slower riders in the last KM really muck things up, slower riders really should just drop back, same for sprinters that arent feeling too good either, lead it out by all means but dont contest it. Winding it up on the front in the last 400m takes balls of steel and nerve for people to hold their line under speed something most will bottle out under and cause crashes.

Utter B***ocks! You are in the race to do the best you can, not drop back at the sprint, if you cant deal with slower riders in the last km, maybe its you that shouldnt be there.

snedden9485

Bhima wrote:

Yes, i'm practicing the break-away thing. The trick is to do it subtly.

Hopefully, a few of my mates will get into road racing soon, so we'll be putting a team together. It's probably best if we keep it quiet during the race though, or people will be looking to get on the back of the lead-out train!

So your mates are going to ride for you?? Sounds very pro like. I wouldnt question that you would be the strongest rider of your mates though after reading about your extensive training rides and hardcore TTs

jibberjim

Bhima wrote:

I'm used to getting high acceleration for a breakaway from a high cadence, but this isn't exactly "subtle", so i'm practicing my lower cadence stuff.

You don't need to be subtle, all you need to do is be fast. If you're 50kg with a very up sloping power profile (ie your 5second, 30 second, etc sprint is pretty poor) on a flat course then you may struggle to get the initial jump, and no amount of subtlety is going to make up for that lack of accelleration. But I've seen such people get in a break in a 4th cat race. One of the reasons is the people controlling the bunch are often more than happy for breaks to go.

It's pretty obvious when an attack happens, 'cos all of a sudden someone is going faster than the bunch, there's no way you can subtly do that. I never watch the cadence of riders, it's really not a tell of anything.

Bhima

snedden9485 wrote:

So your mates are going to ride for you??

No, we'll take it in turns. We already do it on (unofficial) road races... Don't think it's that practical though, as some of the riders are in different racing categories.

Slow1972

What are these "(unofficial) road races" you keep going on about. You and your mates out on a training ride?

jibberjim

Bhima wrote:

No, we'll take it in turns. We already do it on (unofficial) road races... Don't think it's that practical though, as some of the riders are in different racing categories.

So they've already got the points to move up? it was only 2 weeks ago you were hoping they'd get into road racing:

Bhima wrote:

Hopefully, a few of my mates will get into road racing soon, so we'll be putting a team together. It's probably best if we keep it quiet during the race though, or people will be looking to get on the back of the lead-out train!

Impressive, you've got to get out there too.

Bhima

Slow1972 wrote:

What are these "(unofficial) road races" you keep going on about. You and your mates out on a training ride?

Basically, street-racing round Manchester in the early hours...

Time Trials down Pricess Parkway etc...

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleycat_races

shockedsoshocked

Thank God breaking away is all about subtlety. I was thinking it was about tactics, knowing when to jump, hoping no one will form a chase and being stronger than everyone else there combined.

reppohkcor

Bhima wrote:

Slow1972 wrote:

What are these "(unofficial) road races" you keep going on about. You and your mates out on a training ride?

Basically, street-racing round Manchester in the early hours...

Time Trials down Pricess Parkway etc...

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleycat_races

Bhima you're just 'too fast too furious' 8) illegal bike racing in the early hours!

How long are they? Long enough to take a bunch of bananas?

Slow1972

Bhima wrote:

Slow1972 wrote:

What are these "(unofficial) road races" you keep going on about. You and your mates out on a training ride?

Basically, street-racing round Manchester in the early hours...

Time Trials down Pricess Parkway etc...

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleycat_races

Commuting then?

SRS Events

The Lewes Crits nearly always ends in a mass group sprint due to the relatively flat course


Results and photos of tonights race (11.06.06) will be on ON THE RIVET
http://ontherivet.ning.com

As for how to cope with sprinting in a pack -- spend most of the race working out who is going to be the strongest riders in the sprint and then follow his /her wheel.
oh and stay out of the gutter at all costs. There are exceptions to every rule but being blocked in, in the gutter needs to be avoided.