Cheap and Light XC Wheelset

chorscroft

I'm looking to upgrade my wheelset in the coming months i.e. work out what I want and try and nab an ebay bargain.The bike is a giant xtc 3 '04 and currently has rigida zac 2000 rims laced onto an unamed shimano disc hub. Anyone any ideas about the weight?

The main reason for wanting to do this is to lose some weight as I assume that the current wheels are fairly heavy. I'll be using it mainly for light XC riding so it doesn't need to be particularly strong and I only weigh abut 65kg.

So, best wheelset around £150-250 rrp with a 6 bolt disc hub that's as light as possible.

Cheers

Conor

Forgot to mention that I've just bought a pair of continental raceking supersonics if that has any bearing.

junglist_matty

If you went up to £300 you'd get yourself a pair of hope pro 2 hubs built on some rims (pretty much any £50 rim). Maybe get some light mavic rim.

Failing that mavic crossrides have £50 off the RRP at CRC for just £130 a pair, they're quite light for the price, and won't get a better set for the price either.

adb1006

I'd say XT 6 bolt hubs laced to Mavic XC717 rims, with DT Comp DB spokes. Merlin build will be about £200 i think. To save even more weight (but comprimise a bit on strength) you could go for DT Revolution spokes.

supersonic

Your existing set will weigh around 2200g. Crossrides are about 1900g so would make a saving, but I think XT hubs on 717 rims are a better wheelset (can be got a lot for 140 at Merlin).

How about a Mix and Match approach? DT 240 rear hub on DT 4.2 hub is 175 at Merlin and is a very light hub. Then get a Xt on 4.2 for the front.

Steve_b77

Corssrides woudl be my suggestion.

They actually weigh less than quoted, a fraction over 1800g's on independant shop scales 8)

Tank-slapper

XT/717s with DT comp spokes from Merlin for 160

canada16

I have had crossrides for almost two years and love, them, no maint and they have taken a beating.

How much do these xt/717 weigh?

I was thing about getting lighter, but not paying 200.00 only to save 50gr.

Thanks

chorscroft

Crossrides look good but was hoping for something slightly lighter.
Only problem with custom wheelsets is I was looking to buy second hand and planning to pay maybe closer to £100 for a £200 wheelset.

If I buy hubs, rims, spokes, spoke nipples, and rim tape (cheaply e.g. ebay) how much would it cost to get it all set up? Who would you recommend to do this? Merlin? Chainreaction?

Also interested in how much the xt/717 weigh with the dt comp spokes, but I'm leaning towards the revolution spokes for the weight saving and because I don't need the extra strength.

Cheers

Conor

toasty

Crossrides would be my suggestion , I much prefer them to my 2 XT sets, very stiff and lasted very well without needing touching. You could get a factory XT set for £279 or so though, 1700g and proper UST tubeless compatible rims. They're a bit more flexy than the Crossrides and I don't trust the hubs anymore, cones require more fiddling than I like to give.

You aren't going to get much lighter than 1700-1800g I doubt, <1600g wheels are generally £350+, Rovals etcs.

canada16

WOW

So not a huge weight difference.

I would go for crossrides then.

Wil save the dosh for some brakes, always like the look of XT brakes, too much right now, my magura louise are doing ok.. just

1800 odd gram on the rides, and 1700,00 on the merlins, not worth it, and the crossrides always get 4-5 stars for reviews.

supersonic

We are talking a custom XT set here. With centrelock hubs, 717 rims and DT Rev spokes should be about 1650-1700g for less than 200 quid.

They start from about 140 a pair.

toasty

What size Race Kings? I wouldn't stick the 2.2s on 717 rims personally. The carcass is the same as the 2.4 Mountain King, they're monsters.

Given you're light the above might be ok. Revos are the thinnest, weakest spoke DT make though, often advertised as race only. You'd need to add on a bit of weight for the centerlock rotors as well, lovely invention, it does add weight though, even the magical adapters that claim to be lighter than bolts are mysteriously heavier.

supersonic

I think the problem with Revs is how the wheel is built - they are difficult to build with and twist a lot. Seen many bad builds and wheels with Revs fail quickly because of this. Still got a 217 on LX in the shed, and the rear rim cracked before the spokes did!

Still I wouldnt jump on them.

toasty

True, I do seem to break more cheap, plain gauge spokes than I do skinny, butted ones. The skinny butted ones bend and stretch, the solid plain gauge ones snap at the neck

I'm just not a fan of any flex in wheels, even slightly off camber and they shoot off where ever they want. Doubt it'd be noticable at 65kg though.

supersonic

The weight I used to be when I used them lol!

chorscroft

Right I'm going to try and get XT hubs, 717 rims and DT revos.
As to the tires what are the problems with putting 2.2 race kings on?
I've got a 2.1 speed king I could run up front if that would help.

I'm debating whether to sell my old rims or use them on a giant boulder I have.
How much would I get for my old wheelset (rigida zac 2000 rims laced onto an unamed shimano disc hub) possibly sold with 2 x 160mm rotors as I quite fancy 180mm on the new ones?

Cheers

Conor

toasty

Race Kings are very big for their claimed size, the same carcass as a 2.4" mountain king, miles bigger than a piddly 2.1" speed king

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=416473 - few pics there.

The 717 is the narrowest mountain bike rim Mavic make, infact it's smaller than most brands make come to think of it. Wider tyres on narrower rims get pinched at the bottom and can roll around a bit, it'll all be down to what pressure you're running etc though. I'm sure it'd be fine, I wouldn't do it personally though :P

Revs are the thinnest spokes DT make, combined with the narrowest rim Mavic make on wide tyres, laced to a fairly heavy hub which can require a lot of fiddling. Purely my opinion I can't argue with the value though! Definitely the lightest you'll get for that money.

Is there an alpha numeric code on the old hub? M475 would represent Deore for example. Now would be an ideal time to swap rotors if you intended to, given you'd need new centerlock rotors, the adapter seems silly expensive considering what it is.

spongtastic

717's are the same width as 117's 317's etc. I've run 2.1 Kendas on these no problem. They're just top of the range XC rims. Recommended tyre size is to prevent them being used for stupid DH stuff on 2.5 nokkians.
Deore are not 475, these are sub group, mass produced with lower quality tollerances, as are the poor chainsets etc that you get on bikes such as a focus black forest.
2.2 race kings come up the same size as 2.2 MK's. 2.1 SK's are small, but so are all Conti tyres, 2.3 Gravity comes up the same size as most 2.1 Spesh, Kenda, or Maxxis.

Sorry rant over. It's been a long day

allthegearnoidea

are you sure your old hubs are shimano ones?? reason i ask is i too have a set of rigida Zac2000 rims on unbranded hubs, have a rim braking surface too? mine i know took a DMR freewheel as ui had to replace mine!
weight wise they came in at 1800g for the rear and 1200g for the front!
so a set of cross rides would make a Big difference to your rolling effort!
i've just changed a wheelset to Xero sesion freeride which were just over 2kg but had the extra strength for my heftyness, and i couldnt affoerd anything special! but the loss of roling mass is amazing!
if you can get a pair of hope's then i would do! ebay seems to see the hope /717's go for the £150-180 mark much the same for hope/DT 4.1
i looked at loads of them to get an idea of prices on them prior to getting the ones i did just incase ones popped up cheap!!!

a bike shop i droppe din for some unbiased advice suggested that the xt hubs take a fair bit of looking after to keep sweet, he suggested to me that i went for the crossrides as a better allrounder! iirc the '09 crossrides are nearly 100g lighter than the previous versions,

Steve_b77

They certainly are I have a set of '09 crossrides on my Handjob, they weigh a smidge over 1800g's as a pair.

I bought them as Hope Hoops were out of my budget for this bike, I already have a set of the 5.1d's on my full suss. Also my mate has the 4.2's on hopes and he says they're quite flexy.

The sealed cartridge bearings mean next to no maintenance and they do look rather bling with the fancy grafix

supersonic

Mavic claim them to be 1905g for the pair, which is still pretty good for the money! The cenrelock version are lighter.

The non series Shimano cranks (ie 440) IMO are good value.

I just priced up a set of DMR revolver hubs, with XM317 rims and DT Comp spokes for £164 at Merlin.

A lot is swings and roundabouts ie what bearings you prefer, what tyres you will run and if you don't like narrow rims, etc etc.

Either way, Crossrides and XT handbuilts are great value.

chorscroft

From what I've read in that forum toasty, it would seem that it is the mountain kings which are small for their size, 2.4's are actually 2.2's due to sideknobs, and the raceking 2.2's are actually 2.2. And gong by what spongtastic says I think I'll give them a go anyway. Do you reckon I should run 2 x race kings or should I use the speedking? Front or rear?

The Hubs are 475, FH-M475 Rear and HB-M475 front, so considered Deores then? So 6 bolt disc deore hubs, some kind of black spokes and rigida zac 2000 rims - how much would I get?

Also what is the difference between the 6 bolt XT hub and the splined hub and why are splined hubs an advantage? Just convenience?
It seems most rotors are still 6 bolt.

Conor

supersonic

The hubs are non series, just below Deore in the range. the wheels are worth about 40-50 quid, but don't ask again as we don't allow valuation threads ;-)

Centrelock hubs are lighter, and easier to change and fit rotors. Also more secure. Rotors can be heavier though.

chorscroft

Think I may just keep the wheels as spares then.
I also may be able to get a good deal on the 771, rev spokes and xt 6 bolt hubs which I may just take and can upgrade hubs/rotors at a later stage if I have a bit more money to spare.

Conor

toasty

Wow, someone's had a worse day than me :P

spongtastic wrote:

717's are the same width as 117's 317's etc. I've run 2.1 Kendas on these no problem. They're just top of the range XC rims. Recommended tyre size is to prevent them being used for stupid DH stuff on 2.5 nokkians.

Well done, the rims than end in 17 are all the same width. 717s are XC rims, but then XC tyres are generally narrow, they're not made for wider tyres, they are literally the narrowest MTB rim Mavic do as I stated. 719s are the more trail focused rim. Something like a DT4.2 is about 18mm internal width. The recommendations aren't to stop downhilling, the recommendations are to stop you using wider tyres as they're pinched at the bottom...

spongtastic wrote:

2.2 race kings come up the same size as 2.2 MK's. 2.1 SK's are small, but so are all Conti tyres, 2.3 Gravity comes up the same size as most 2.1 Spesh, Kenda, or Maxxis.

The carcass on the Race King IS bigger than that of the 2.2" mountain king, just look at the thing. Click the link I posted if you want to hear of people measuring them along with photos. All the other Conti tyres are small, the Race King isn't though :P

spongtastic wrote:

Deore are not 475, these are sub group, mass produced with lower quality tollerances, as are the poor chainsets etc that you get on bikes such as a focus black forest.

The M475 hubs can be found sold at tons of places as Deore. Here, here, here etc. I appreciate Shimano use a variety of numbers, which randomly get juggled as they so desire. I was using that as an example of a product code to identify his unknown hubs, you don't need to be quite so pedantic.

toasty

chorscroft wrote:

From what I've read in that forum toasty, it would seem that it is the mountain kings which are small for their size, 2.4's are actually 2.2's due to sideknobs, and the raceking 2.2's are actually 2.2. And gong by what spongtastic says I think I'll give them a go anyway. Do you reckon I should run 2 x race kings or should I use the speedking? Front or rear?

True, bare in mind the 2.1" Speed Kings were also way small for their size too though It's not 0.1" difference, it'll be way wider. They're comparing them to 2.3" Speed Kings in that very thread.

Very nice tyres though I've not heard a bad word about them, given that size they're shockingly light too.

toasty

supersonic wrote:

The hubs are non series, just below Deore in the range. the wheels are worth about 40-50 quid, but don't ask again as we don't allow valuation threads ;-)

Centrelock hubs are lighter, and easier to change and fit rotors. Also more secure. Rotors can be heavier though.

Yeah, the weight is swings and roundabouts really. The weight lost on the hub is made up for on the rotor, it's a much, much better system though! 10 seconds to swap a rotor out, no cheapy rusty bolts or rounded torx ends. It's handy if you're fiddling about with the cones etc.

passout

Anyone mention On-One wheels? Don't know the weight but they look great value.

supersonic

Contis are odd, my Verts at 2.3 don't seem it compared to my 2.1 Tiogas. Mavic say 2.3 max on the 717, but as demonstrated, can be vague! TBH I can't notice that difference from 17 to 19mm rims with the same tyre, but small differences can be felt to many, and be enough to warrant one over the other (plus a stronger rim to boot).

Can'r see why CLock can't be made lighter. XTR fairly light, but a rip off.

supersonic

passout wrote:

Anyone mention On-One wheels? Don't know the weight but they look great value.

Any links?

toasty

supersonic wrote:

Contis are odd, my Verts at 2.3 don't seem it compared to my 2.1 Tiogas. Mavic say 2.3 max on the 717, but as demonstrated, can be vague! TBH I can't notice that difference from 17 to 19mm rims with the same tyre, but small differences can be felt to many, and be enough to warrant one over the other (plus a stronger rim to boot).

It depends on the tyre a lot as well I think. I went up to Flow rims on my Meta recently, from 19.5mm Equalizers. The 2.35" High Roller got slighty bigger, it's barely noticable though. The 2.4" Nobby Nic on the other hand :shock: It's huge now! Looks miles bigger than it used to, not quite sure what the difference is, round tyres vs square profile tyres I guess.

supersonic wrote:

Can'r see why CLock can't be made lighter. XTR fairly light, but a rip off.

Yeah, you sometimes see them second hand for £20 though From the ones that I've owned:

160mm Deores were about 160g
160mm XT was about 150g
180mm XT was about 170g
160mm XTR are supposedly about 130g but I've never tried any, even second hand, £20 for 20g seemed a bit wasted

It was really close, my Zaskar went from 2x Deore to 2x XT with a 180mm. The weight was virtually identical.