Fast riding smal lgroup - why not team time trial format?

bahzob

Posting this in beginners because its relevant to number of sections, including racing/sportive and training. Also a beginners sort of question.

I have taken part in a number of events where a small (3 - 8 ) group of riders is attempting to ride as quickly as possible, either to establish a break, catch a break or get a good finishing time in a sportive.

To me it seems obvious that such a group should work in the same way as the pros do when they want to go as fast as possible as a unit. So team time formation, single line/echelon, with lead working until wants a break then dropping off front to back with next guy along taking up the strain.

However most every group I have been in seems to want to try to establish a through and off, even when there are as few as 3 riders involved. Why? This formation seems most suited to training rides or the main bunch.

bahzob

Jake151 wrote:

Are you sure its not chain ganging whereby a rider comes up from the back and joins on the front and its a constant rotation with max 30secs at the front, then the rider works his way back down the group then does it again etc etc

That's what I meant by "through and off". Its good for training and if group is too large to allow a single line but seems daft for small groups trying to fast especially if they dont know each other.

shmo

Only reason I can think of is that if you swing off and put a weaker rider at the front he's going to bring the speed of the group down until he decides to move over. With two lines the guy behind can overlap a slower rider so they spend relatively little time at the front.

Personally I prefer two lines in a race I think it flows better but does seem a bit inefficient with 3 or 4 riders. I watched "A sunday in hell" the other day and the break away appeared to be doing it with 3 riders so that 2 of them had their head in the wind at all times which seemed a bit silly but they were all working the same amount so I guess that's the reasoning behind it.

When training we usually have a single line and the second man overtakes the guy on the front with everyone behind jumping on his wheel. I hate that system because it's requires constant surges to keep your place but it's probably gives a good workout. Also can't really have two lines on the narrow roads around here.

Bronzie

Once you get below 4/5 riders it's probably more efficient to ride "bit and bit" (ie rider stays on front for 30 secs - 3 mins before dropping to back) rather than "through and off" (constant rotation).

If you are with mates (rather than race situation), weaker riders can spend lees time on the front and stronger riders more to make it more efficient still and stop the weaker ones getting dropped.

teagar

Shmo wrote:

Personally I prefer two lines in a race I think it flows better but does seem a bit inefficient with 3 or 4 riders. I watched "A sunday in hell" the other day and the break away appeared to be doing it with 3 riders so that 2 of them had their head in the wind at all times which seemed a bit silly but they were all working the same amount so I guess that's the reasoning behind it.

.

Cross wind?

bahzob

Bronzie wrote:

Once you get below 4/5 riders it's probably more efficient to ride "bit and bit" (ie rider stays on front for 30 secs - 3 mins before dropping to back) rather than "through and off" (constant rotation).

If you are with mates (rather than race situation), weaker riders can spend lees time on the front and stronger riders more to make it more efficient still and stop the weaker ones getting dropped.

Still think that for groups up to at least 8 team time trial format ** is going to be the most efficient.

If it wasnt then surely pro teams would use some other formation in competition?

** Think this is similar to "bit and bit". However I have been in group which talked about bit and bit but it was more like through and off.