Rain, a bit of danger... and the peloton whinges? Come on.

fyak1

HEADLINE:

"Rain-slicked roads on steep descent in todays Giro stage made even more dangerous by river of tears from spoilt professionals acting like Naomi Campbell when she doesn't have it her way"

Discuss...

markwalker

yes wimps, theres nothing like a death following a slip on a descent to whip up audience figures.

However if they are scared they dont need to go so fast and it all depends if they have winners mentalitys or not. Personally i like to see them suffer it makes the stage more "beautiful"

le_patron

I lean towards the view that there is always a limit of traction and you have to ride within your limits and the conditions.

In which case it doesn't matter how steep it is, how good you are and whether it is raining.

But I still kind of see their point...

fyak1

Absolutley.
Only those confident/silly enough to throw caution to the wind should descend like madmen on a day like today, and those who don't like it can keep their brakes on all the way. I don't have a problem with that.
It just irks me that highly paid pro's whinge at the danger involved. It IS a dangerous sport and their skills should be tested in a whole range of conditions, including fast, rain-soaked descents.

fyak1

And I don't want to hear about 'obligations to sponsors', although I do understand it.

fyak1

PS What started me on this was LA's Twiter posts regarding todays descent.

http://twitter.com/lancearmstrong.

g*y.

Kléber

There are limits. Race down a mountainside in the rain? Ok, but only if the roads are fine, where dangers are properly signalled and when official vehicles and press motorbikes don't provoke accidents. Remember though that some riders will take big risks, their careers are on the line.

GavH

These guys are getting a lot of money to do this and are supposed to be amongst the very best of the best at it. It irks me when I hear professional footballers say "I took it on the wrong foot". They're paid mega bucks NOT to have a wrong foot! Likewise, if pro riders can't descend in wet weather then they need to be prepared to lose, simple as that. They're were certainly a handful of guys today clearly capable enough at descending in those conditions so quite what LA is bumping his gums about is anybodys guess. :?:

le_patron

Kléber wrote:

There are limits. Race down a mountainside in the rain? Ok, but only if the roads are fine, where dangers are properly signalled and when official vehicles and press motorbikes don't provoke accidents. Remember though that some riders will take big risks, their careers are on the line.

But all that applies to the dry too.

There are limits. Race down a mountainside ? Ok, but only if the roads are fine, where dangers are properly signalled and when official vehicles and press motorbikes don't provoke accidents. Remember though that some riders will take big risks, their careers are on the line.

afx237vi

Kléber wrote:

There are limits. Race down a mountainside in the rain? Ok, but only if the roads are fine, where dangers are properly signalled and when official vehicles and press motorbikes don't provoke accidents. Remember though that some riders will take big risks, their careers are on the line.

It looked fine today. There were a couple of hairpins near the top but most of it was on wide, straight roads. I don't know what LA is complaining about.

There are limits, yes, but it's up to the peloton to decide what the limits are.

Kléber

Oh no, today the road was wide and fine. My point was more in general, that in the rain it is a hard job but today's descent looked fine and was close to the finish.

afx237vi

Sure, it's a hard job in the rain, but it's still a race and there was still a stage-win up for grabs.

Maybe someone just can't deal with the fact that he's been out for the 3 years and isn't the patron anymore. Same goes for yesterday, saying it was "unnecessary". Unnecessary for him, maybe...

Anonymous

It's called 'racing', not 'waiting around for sh*t to happen'...

Jez mon

GavH wrote:

These guys are getting a lot of money to do this and are supposed to be amongst the very best of the best at it. It irks me when I hear professional footballers say "I took it on the wrong foot". They're paid mega bucks NOT to have a wrong foot! Likewise, if pro riders can't descend in wet weather then they need to be prepared to lose, simple as that. They're were certainly a handful of guys today clearly capable enough at descending in those conditions so quite what LA is bumping his gums about is anybodys guess. :?:

To be honest, a lot of them don't get paid that much. However good a rider they are, a low ranking domestique can have his career ended for him in a split second, then what do they go on to do, most of the guys aren't well educated. At the end of the day, i'm not saying they should ban all decents, that would be stupid, but that there is a line, especially when a fall can result in death. By the sounds of it they didn't cross that line today, but we as fans need to remember that the domestiques aren't living the life and earning the wage of a professional footballer by a long way, and that asking them to take tremendous risks isn't really on.

The above applies to dangerous doping methods as well!!

fyak1

Jez,

Agree with all you say.

Perhaps I was doing a Lance and overreacting ridiculously before properly assessing the situation.

The fact is the descent today was far from the danger-laden trip to the depths of hell that LA and others have made out. There are certainly conditions were it would absolutely be unreasonable to expect the peloton to continue but today was just not in that category.

Your point about most riders getting paid little is very valid, and somehint gI wasn't taking into consideration. That having been said it seems that it's the big guns who are complaining the most. Or maybe it's just that their voices are the ones people listen to.

deejay

afx237vi wrote:

It looked fine today. There were a couple of hairpins near the top but most of it was on wide, straight roads. I don't know what LA is complaining about.

.

I know the feeling of getting "OLD" and loosing my Bottle in the rain but I don't winge that I can't keep up.
I hear the ES commentator lining up the excuses for him and wonder if this is another one.

He made good use of the rain in Norway to win a World Championship when he needed the recognition and since then he Bottle's out in the rain. (or snow)

The Giro is not a June/July event and now he knows exactly why he has avoided it all these years.

knedlicky

The Giro organisers registered the time gap between the front five and the peloton groups 3 km from the finish, not before or during the main descent, and then annulled the last 3 km for the peloton, thus why some groups half-drifted in to the finish.
So the organisers’ main concern was the slick surface on the roads where sprints might occur, not the descent.
Modern tyres grip very well even in the wet, provided you don’t lean over excessively. LA is just making excuses.

If LA has a bad day in the TT in the 12th stage, he’ll probably blame it on the Spaghetti alle Vongole he had the night before (regional speciality thereabouts).

GavH

Jez mon wrote:

To be honest, a lot of them don't get paid that much. However good a rider they are, a low ranking domestique can have his career ended for him in a split second, then what do they go on to do, most of the guys aren't well educated. At the end of the day, i'm not saying they should ban all decents, that would be stupid, but that there is a line, especially when a fall can result in death. By the sounds of it they didn't cross that line today, but we as fans need to remember that the domestiques aren't living the life and earning the wage of a professional footballer by a long way, and that asking them to take tremendous risks isn't really on.

I spent my formative years training to be a jump jockey, where low pay and risk of imminent death is prevalent. I am now in the Army, where low pay and risk of imminent death is still prevalent. I don't see anyone around me now (or a few years back in racing) complaining when it rained - either the wet stuff, half ton racehorses, or 1000lb bombs. Anyone who does complain gets told to man up.

My point is, they are professionals and should get on with it, because thats what pros do. In any line of work, regardless.

fyak1

Well said, Gav H.

I certainly 'man up' when necessary in my hard-as-nails job in luxury retail.

OK, am taking the piss out of my 'soft as a poof's moisturised buttocks' day job, but I have climbed and descended my fair share of mountains in my 'leisure time', and in all sorts of weather.

I'm particularly put in mind of when a group I was cycling with came down the Portet d'Aspet a few years back. After 3 hot and dry days in the Pyrenees it had been gently raining all morning, and, as it was August and the descent was heavily shrouded by trees, fallen leaves were scattered all over the road, making for a very unpredictably slippery surface. Most of the group came down with brakes almost locked, particularly as we were all aware of what happened to Casartelli (who's memorial we would be passing on the way down), but a handful of us still went at it reasonably fast. And as we pulled off the front of the group quite a few of the group hollered after us to slow down and be more careful. But we were being careful. All of us knew what we were doing and, despite begin competitive and pushing it a bit, were well aware of our limitations.

God, listen to me waxing lyrical and biggin myself up.

What I'm trying to highlight, like most of the other posters in this thread, is that we all (for the most part) know out limits. The pro's even more so.

Er... ok, lost my train of thought now. Too much wine.
Ghood.

RichN95.

GavH wrote:

I spent my formative years training to be a jump jockey, where low pay and risk of imminent death is prevalent. I am now in the Army, where low pay and risk of imminent death is still prevalent. I don't see anyone around me now (or a few years back in racing) complaining when it rained - either the wet stuff, half ton racehorses, or 1000lb bombs. Anyone who does complain gets told to man up.

My point is, they are professionals and should get on with it, because thats what pros do. In any line of work, regardless.

Jump jockeys have always struck me as serious nutters. Brave to the point of insanity. The injury list of your average jockey is frightening - and they don't see it as any big deal. Very impressive people.

Bhima

Lance says that the top speeds today were around 55mph.

That's still pretty fast! :!:

Jez mon

GavH wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

To be honest, a lot of them don't get paid that much. However good a rider they are, a low ranking domestique can have his career ended for him in a split second, then what do they go on to do, most of the guys aren't well educated. At the end of the day, i'm not saying they should ban all decents, that would be stupid, but that there is a line, especially when a fall can result in death. By the sounds of it they didn't cross that line today, but we as fans need to remember that the domestiques aren't living the life and earning the wage of a professional footballer by a long way, and that asking them to take tremendous risks isn't really on.

I spent my formative years training to be a jump jockey, where low pay and risk of imminent death is prevalent. I am now in the Army, where low pay and risk of imminent death is still prevalent. I don't see anyone around me now (or a few years back in racing) complaining when it rained - either the wet stuff, half ton racehorses, or 1000lb bombs. Anyone who does complain gets told to man up.

My point is, they are professionals and should get on with it, because thats what pros do. In any line of work, regardless.

But comparing the army with pro cycling is not comparing like with like. No offence! The army is meant to be protection (sorry, I'm drunk and can't execute my point eloquently but I'm fairly sure it's clear what i mean!!) pro cycling is mere entertainment! It's not the matter of life and death which the army so clearly is.

Telling a low paid, undervalued domestique to MTFU is unfeeling and unwarranted, although it is a job that many of us would take in a flash, i bet that many of us would quit when we found out just what it entailed. Face it ... being a low paid professional cyclist is about as bad a job as you can get, sure you get paid to ride a bike, but it becomes a chore, and dependant on the team you can enter into a health program which can be seriously damaging to yourself.

I guess what i'm trying to say is that in summery. You don't own these guys, and you shouldn't feel like your paying them to do dangerous things!

ridgerider

The risk is we end up like Formula 1 with a pace car coming out to limit the speeds of the riders when the conditions get "non-dry" and the roads "non-straight" or "non-flat".

If they can all go to the loo together when they decide to, they should be able to set limits for themselves on days like yesterday...

ridgerider

...Now, commuting home yesterday in the blustery wind and rain, with blurred vision through my glasses and cars all around WAS dangerous.

shakey88

Did i miss something here or did everyone get tgo the finish having NOT crashed on the descent!
It strikes me as another on of LA's rants to distract us from the fact he ain't no good no more.
The other day it was a "mechanical" and then we saw him tinkering with his bars,and now this namby pampy crybabying about a fast descent in the rain.
I mean,this is the Giro for gawds sake not a sunday morning club outing!
MTFU Mr no legs :roll:

frenchfighter

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/No_ ... 82707.html

iainf72

I think Di Luca is on the money. Early on in the Giro I remarked that Lance looked like someone who was petrified of falling off.

Anonymous

shakey88 wrote:

Did i miss something here or did everyone get tgo the finish having NOT crashed on the descent!
It strikes me as another on of LA's rants to distract us from the fact he ain't no good no more.
The other day it was a "mechanical" and then we saw him tinkering with his bars,and now this namby pampy crybabying about a fast descent in the rain.
I mean,this is the Giro for gawds sake not a sunday morning club outing!
MTFU Mr no legs :roll:

A couple crashed. Unfortunate news from yesterday (from cyclingnews) -

Pedro Horrillo (Rabobank) crashed on the descent of Culmine di San Pietro. He is serious condition at a local hospital. Doctors report he is in an induced coma and on a respirator, with multiple fractured ribs, fractured leg and knee and a perforated lung.

sing_for_absolution

NapoleonD wrote:

shakey88 wrote:

Did i miss something here or did everyone get tgo the finish having NOT crashed on the descent!
It strikes me as another on of LA's rants to distract us from the fact he ain't no good no more.
The other day it was a "mechanical" and then we saw him tinkering with his bars,and now this namby pampy crybabying about a fast descent in the rain.
I mean,this is the Giro for gawds sake not a sunday morning club outing!
MTFU Mr no legs :roll:

A couple crashed. Unfortunate news from yesterday (from cyclingnews) -

Pedro Horrillo (Rabobank) crashed on the descent of Culmine di San Pietro. He is serious condition at a local hospital. Doctors report he is in an induced coma and on a respirator, with multiple fractured ribs, fractured leg and knee and a perforated lung.

Serious accidents like that happen in bone-dry conditions too. Hopefully Mr Horrillo recovers.

Anonymous

Yep, I have no qualms about the situation. I said earlier, it's called 'racing', not 'waiting around for sh*t to happen'.

I was just saying that someone did crash. He should have gone a bit slower, it's the name of the game.

Pokerface

shakey88 wrote:

Did i miss something here or did everyone get tgo the finish having NOT crashed on the descent!
It strikes me as another on of LA's rants to distract us from the fact he ain't no good no more.
The other day it was a "mechanical" and then we saw him tinkering with his bars,and now this namby pampy crybabying about a fast descent in the rain.
I mean,this is the Giro for gawds sake not a sunday morning club outing!
MTFU Mr no legs :roll:

Yeah - Lance sucks! I mean, he's had a full month and a half now to recover from that broken collarbone. Why isn't he in first place in the race?

You would think he'd be winning by at least 10 minutes now, instead of sitting back in 25th place or so. I guess the 24 riders ahead of him must have had at least 2 full months of solid training before the Giro started. :roll: