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Commuting Etiquette

DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
edited May 2009 in Commuting chat
Hopefully this thread will become a list of good practice.

My pet hate:

I've overtaken someone, eventually I approach and stop at the lights. I'm clearly faster than the cyclist - I overtook - who is approaching the lights. Instead of waiting behind me, they insist of filtering through and promptly plonking their bike right in front of me.

Lights go green and I'm stuck behind the dead weight until traffic passes and I have an opening to overtake them. This can get dangerous if they're going so slow that one full turn of my crank means I'm upon them. Or so slow that its a struggle to keep my bike upright.

Good practice/etiquette

If you see a cyclist - positioned sensibly and safely - infront of you stopped at the lights, wait behind them. Especially if you know they are faster than you. Don't 'queue jump' and become a hazard/obsticle to them. Its just rude and annoying.
Food Chain number = 4

A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
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  • GazzaputtGazzaputt Posts: 3,227
    +1
  • Stuey01Stuey01 Posts: 1,273
    I'm with you 100% on this one.

    In a similar vein, don't go past me all guns blazing just to then die on your censored in front of me and force me to have to overtake you. Again.

    (admittedly I may have been guilty of this one myself when attempting a particularly audacious scalp attempt on a fully team kitted roadie)
    Not climber, not sprinter, not rouleur
  • woodgobwoodgob Posts: 96
    +1
  • RockbuddyRockbuddy Posts: 243
    At the risk of upsetting the SCR lot isn't this a bit hypocritical? I Mean when filtering you are usually "que jumping" past 1 or more car(s) that are much faster than you who may have just overtaken you and have to do it all over again. I imagine this is quite frustrating for the car drivers aswell no? So if a slower bike does that to you (inconveniencing you for a few seconds) to get a better position in the traffic how is that vastly different?
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Stuey01 wrote:
    I'm with you 100% on this one.

    In a similar vein, don't go past me all guns blazing just to then die on your censored in front of me and force me to have to overtake you. Again.

    (admittedly I may have been guilty of this one myself when attempting a particularly audacious scalp attempt on a fully team kitted roadie)

    I made this mistake once.

    I tried to scalp a London Dynamo while he was overtaking someone. I watched my speedo drop from 20+mph to 19mph to 13mph in a matter of seconds. At the lights the Dynamo pulled up beside me all 'concerned' and said

    "You alright mate, you were giving it some and then just seemed to die thought you had a mechanical failure..."
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Rockbuddy wrote:
    At the risk of upsetting the SCR lot isn't this a bit hypocritical? I Mean when filtering you are usually "que jumping" past 1 or more car(s) that are much faster than you who may have just overtaken you and have to do it all over again. I imagine this is quite frustrating for the car drivers aswell no? So if a slower bike does that to you (inconveniencing you for a few seconds) to get a better position in the traffic how is that vastly different?

    What has any of that got to go with SCR?

    SCR is about overtaking someone on a bike on open road BEFORE or AFTER you get to the lights.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • jedsterjedster Posts: 1,717
    If you a kerb hugging and see a parked car ahead, do at least shoulder check before you pull out.

    If you are overtaking a cyclist, do allow space for them to avoid potholes, etc. You want cars to give you space - extend the same courtesy to other cyclists.

    J
  • El GordoEl Gordo Posts: 394
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    At the lights the Dynamo pulled up beside me all 'concerned' and said

    "You alright mate, you were giving it some and then just seemed to die thought you had a mechanical failure..."

    I like it. I'll have to remember to use that line.
  • schlafsackschlafsack Posts: 26
    Rockbuddy wrote:
    car(s) that are much faster than you

    In central London (or any major city) this is very rarely true.
  • BassjunkieukBassjunkieuk Posts: 4,232
    I think this behavior annoys me more then those that simply RLJ, at least then they are clear of the junction! It's sorta like sitting in the outside lane of the motorway with a Ferrari up ur ar$e - you know full well the person/car behind you in faster but you don't want to admit it.

    It could of course be because they are less confident of their riding abilities and therefore don't want to start in a group of riders and want to be at the front. Usually if I approach a set of lights I'll try and position myself out of the group so I have a clear run, not only so I can make a quick getaway but so I can avoid obstacles in the road as well.
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  • CyclingBantamCyclingBantam Posts: 1,299
    Rockbuddy wrote:
    At the risk of upsetting the SCR lot isn't this a bit hypocritical? I Mean when filtering you are usually "que jumping" past 1 or more car(s) that are much faster than you who may have just overtaken you and have to do it all over again. I imagine this is quite frustrating for the car drivers aswell no? So if a slower bike does that to you (inconveniencing you for a few seconds) to get a better position in the traffic how is that vastly different?

    I see your point however I think this is very different. It is very simple for a car to re-pass a cyclist in most cases however it is harder for a cyclist to overtake another due to the comparatively lower speeds and the other cars passing at the same time. If you are filtering through traffic then in a lot of cases you will be quicker when it starts 'moving' again anyway.
  • jedsterjedster Posts: 1,717
    It is very simple for a car to re-pass a cyclist in most cases however it is harder for a cyclist to overtake another due to the comparatively lower speeds and the other cars passing at the same time

    That is often but not always true. I think some people ALWAYS filter to the front without considering
    a) does it buy them much
    b) how much inconvenience does it cause to other road users

    If you are a fairly quick cyclist in thick traffic then the answer is generally a) a decent amount and b) almost none. But it is good etiquette to be alert to the occasions when the answer is a) not much and b) a bit - then you should just take the lane and wait your turn.
  • always_tyredalways_tyred Posts: 4,965
    Rockbuddy wrote:
    At the risk of upsetting the SCR lot isn't this a bit hypocritical? I Mean when filtering you are usually "que jumping" past 1 or more car(s) that are much faster than you who may have just overtaken you and have to do it all over again. I imagine this is quite frustrating for the car drivers aswell no? So if a slower bike does that to you (inconveniencing you for a few seconds) to get a better position in the traffic how is that vastly different?
    Ish.

    I do think if you live by the sword you die by the sword. A pet hate of mine is when drivers overtake, typically at a pinch point, in order to stop right in front of you or shortly thereafter.

    For that reason, I tend not to overtake cyclists in the city centre only to stop at the lights that are inevitably going to change anyway, since this is effectively the same thing. Since I behave this way, I don't like it when a cyclist literally pushes in front of me when I'm waiting, undertakes as the lights are changing, or "anticipates" the lights forcing me to overtake on multiple occasions.

    However, if you are in the habit of getting as far forward as possible at all times, I agree that you just have to put up with others doing the same.

    I'll happily SCR when I'm in freely flowing traffic or on open roads. I'm completely disinterested when faced with a wall of busses, taxis and wvm. This means, as DDD points out, that I have to overtake cyclists several times who creep and sequeeze through traffic where I am more careful.
  • brushedbrushed Posts: 63
    edited May 2009
    I think when a rider becomes a scalpee and they are annoyed by this, when the lights go red up ahead they have two courses of action to get ahead.

    1. most likely they RLJ to beat you or
    2. if less stupid, they pull up but in front to vent their annoyance at the scalper - passive aggressive like.

    Its a sign of weakness as they have been rattled and are not happy about it

    Another case in point is when I freewheel up to a set of lights with a loud campag freehub quality bike noise just to see a rider pull away from their stopped position just before I arrive cos they heard me coming - happens all the time to me.
    FCN 4 summer
    FCN 6 Winter

    'Strong, Light, Cheap : choose two' Keith Bontrager
  • Kieran_BurnsKieran_Burns Posts: 9,757
    Going back to the original post topic:

    don't flaming SPIT over your shoulder without checking first. :evil:

    You have NO idea how minging a face full of someone elses snot is. :evil: :evil:

    Don't fecking 'amble'* on the road - riding like you're in a Musical singing songs and greeting the birdies is NOT a good idea in the middle of a flaming city.


    *amble = sub 5mph wandering across the lane, head in the clouds and brain in the censored .
    Chunky Cyclists need your love too! :-)
    2009 Specialized Tricross Sport
    2011 Trek Madone 4.5
    2012 Felt F65X
    Proud CX Pervert and quiet roadie. 12 mile commuter
  • andy83andy83 Posts: 1,558
    i hate people jumping up and down curbs when riding, frustrates the life out of me.

    also not paying attention, like people on phones whilst riding

    the one i have saw a few times which i just cant understand is people smoking whilst riding
  • RockbuddyRockbuddy Posts: 243
    Rockbuddy wrote:
    At the risk of upsetting the SCR lot isn't this a bit hypocritical? I Mean when filtering you are usually "que jumping" past 1 or more car(s) that are much faster than you who may have just overtaken you and have to do it all over again. I imagine this is quite frustrating for the car drivers aswell no? So if a slower bike does that to you (inconveniencing you for a few seconds) to get a better position in the traffic how is that vastly different?
    Ish.

    I do think if you live by the sword you die by the sword. A pet hate of mine is when drivers overtake, typically at a pinch point, in order to stop right in front of you or shortly thereafter.

    For that reason, I tend not to overtake cyclists in the city centre only to stop at the lights that are inevitably going to change anyway, since this is effectively the same thing. Since I behave this way, I don't like it when a cyclist literally pushes in front of me when I'm waiting, undertakes as the lights are changing, or "anticipates" the lights forcing me to overtake on multiple occasions.

    However, if you are in the habit of getting as far forward as possible at all times, I agree that you just have to put up with others doing the same.

    I'll happily SCR when I'm in freely flowing traffic or on open roads. I'm completely disinterested when faced with a wall of busses, taxis and wvm. This means, as DDD points out, that I have to overtake cyclists several times who creep and sequeeze through traffic where I am more careful.

    Yeah I have to say that a pet hate of mine is the "car must over take bike at all costs" mentality. I've seen a few cars nearly rear end someone just to get ahead of me (or next to me :? ). I do agree with many of the posts, cyclists can be just as incosiderate as anyone else on the road. It would probably annoy me if a bike pushed infront of me to block the lane, truth be told. I'm just pointing out the other side's point of view and what seems to be the mentality, from some cyclists, alot like the motorists we slate on a regular basis. I'm off before I become too unpopular :wink:
  • always_tyredalways_tyred Posts: 4,965
    Don't slope off - you make a good point. For the most part I agree. In particular, if you are in the sort of traffic where you find yourself overtaking someone several times, chances are its so busy that they should be the least of your worries.

    I say this because the recent outbreak of sun (here at least) has brought some feverish cyclists to the street. You know the sort. They are wearing their work clothes, have a questionable bike, and a 2 mile commute. They do the first mile in about 20 minutes because there is a 1% incline, but go balls out (usually in the same gear) on the down hill part of the commute, weaving around traffic like sperm. Eventually they'll hit an egg, hard, and it won't be pretty.
  • RockbuddyRockbuddy Posts: 243
    Don't slope off - you make a good point. For the most part I agree. In particular, if you are in the sort of traffic where you find yourself overtaking someone several times, chances are its so busy that they should be the least of your worries.

    I say this because the recent outbreak of sun (here at least) has brought some feverish cyclists to the street. You know the sort. They are wearing their work clothes, have a questionable bike, and a 2 mile commute. They do the first mile in about 20 minutes because there is a 1% incline, but go balls out (usually in the same gear) on the down hill part of the commute, weaving around traffic like sperm. Eventually they'll hit an egg, hard, and it won't be pretty.

    Cheers, I think - I should be working though....I have to admit that since I moved earlier this year my commute has been decimated to just over 3 miles each way :cry: although I have to say even with traffic if the whole commute took me anywhere near 20mins I'd be very embarrased :wink:
  • lost_in_thoughtlost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    Have to say, I'm with Rockbuddy on this one.

    Most commuters will know in general whether traffic on a certian stretch is likely to be going faster or slower than them...

    Unless traffic's consistently slower-moving than I am, I won't overtake cars stopped at a set of lights. I don't think it's a great idea to be overtaken by a motorist only to pootle past them at lights and make them overtake you again.

    If you do that, compare the two overtakes. Bet you the second one's less considerate.

    Of course there are exceptions to this rule of mine, whether there's a right or left turn at the lights for example, or a bus lane. But as a general default I think it's a good'un.
  • salsarider79salsarider79 Posts: 828
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    At the lights the Dynamo pulled up beside me all 'concerned' and said "You alright mate, you were giving it some and then just seemed to die. Thought you had a mechanical failure..."

    Thats harsh. It's a good come back to being scalped like that.
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  • fatgrimpeurfatgrimpeur Posts: 55
    Etiquette? Sounds way too much like Golf to me.

    Knee high socks with tailored shorts anyone?
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    On the subject of overtaking cars at the lights.

    You are safest when at the front (not middle directly infront of a car) of the ASL as oppose to being beside or between two cars - as bikes wobble when they set off and the overtaking car may not see you or give you room to wobble.

    There are exceptions to being safeest at the front of the ASL such as if the first vehicle is a HGV and cannot see you. Plus filtering around the HGV - if the lights go green - is incredibly dangerous.

    When being at the front of the ASL is safest I do try to get to it. If I can't then I will wait in the next safest optio, which in the gap between two cars.

    Even though the ASL is technically the safest place to be that safety is reduced if a cyclists should plonk their bike right in front of yours and then proceed to set off at 2mph leaving you (me) to contend with passing cars at a speed so slow I'm no longer use to it.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • gtvlussogtvlusso Posts: 5,112
    Last dude that did this to me got wrath of gtvlusso - not only did I power past the stupid [email protected], but I called him a *********** and told him that my mother was quicker than he was.....
  • lost_in_thoughtlost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    On the subject of overtaking cars at the lights.

    You are safest when at the front (not middle directly infront of a car) of the ASL as oppose to being beside or between two cars - as bikes wobble when they set off and the overtaking car may not see you or give you room to wobble.

    There are exceptions to being safeest at the front of the ASL such as if the first vehicle is a HGV and cannot see you. Plus filtering around the HGV - if the lights go green - is incredibly dangerous.

    When being at the front of the ASL is safest I do try to get to it. If I can't then I will wait in the next safest optio, which in the gap between two cars.

    Even though the ASL is technically the safest place to be that safety is reduced if a cyclists should plonk their bike right in front of yours and then proceed to set off at 2mph leaving you (me) to contend with passing cars at a speed so slow I'm no longer use to it.

    In the situation where you're on a fast stretch of road where cars overtake you, I don't quite see why making your way to the ASL past stopped cars is safest.

    I should clarify that when I wait in a queue without moving forward, as described above, I plant myself in primary in the middle of a lane - behave like a car.

    I have to say too that I don't wobble when setting off...
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689

    In the situation where you're on a fast stretch of road where cars overtake you, I don't quite see why making your way to the ASL past stopped cars is safest.

    At the ASL there is more oppurtunity and space for the motroist to move around the cyclist. In the queue there is less space.
    I should clarify that when I wait in a queue without moving forward, as described above, I plant myself in primary in the middle of a lane - behave like a car.

    :shock: I don't do this unless in the right lane.

    Well... er....In that instance then on a fast road being at the front of the ASL isn't safest.
    I have to say too that I don't wobble when setting off...

    Yes you do. :wink:
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • blu3catblu3cat Posts: 1,016
    In the situation where you're on a fast stretch of road where cars overtake you, I don't quite see why making your way to the ASL past stopped cars is safest

    Depends on the queue of traffic. If the queue is longer than you can expect to get to the lights to on one round of the lights then you sitting in primary position in the traffic is going to slow everyone down, traffic waiting to get past you to get to the lights etc. Moving to the ASL at least ensures you and the maximum amount of cars will get through ensuring we all get there a little quicker :)

    Evyone does wobble when leaving lights even if it's just a smidge
    "Bed is for sleepy people.
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  • King DonutKing Donut Posts: 498
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Even though the ASL is technically the safest place to be that safety is reduced if a cyclists should plonk their bike right in front of yours and then proceed to set off at 2mph leaving you (me) to contend with passing cars at a speed so slow I'm no longer use to it.

    ... and that's the bottom line - its a question of safety; more than just etiquette. I wonder if people who take to piss when queue jumping is mentioned have ever been put in such an unsafe position.

    I think its down to a lack of awareness rather than beeing pee'd off about being overtaken on the run in to the lights.
  • RockbuddyRockbuddy Posts: 243
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    On the subject of overtaking cars at the lights.

    You are safest when at the front (not middle directly infront of a car) of the ASL as oppose to being beside or between two cars - as bikes wobble when they set off and the overtaking car may not see you or give you room to wobble.

    There are exceptions to being safeest at the front of the ASL such as if the first vehicle is a HGV and cannot see you. Plus filtering around the HGV - if the lights go green - is incredibly dangerous.

    When being at the front of the ASL is safest I do try to get to it. If I can't then I will wait in the next safest optio, which in the gap between two cars.

    Even though the ASL is technically the safest place to be that safety is reduced if a cyclists should plonk their bike right in front of yours and then proceed to set off at 2mph leaving you (me) to contend with passing cars at a speed so slow I'm no longer use to it.

    Isn't this a bit contradictory? If generally the safest place to be is at the front of the ASL are you telling anyone that is slower than you they can't be in the "safest place"? You sound like you are blocking off the ASL for anyone else filtering up the left so they would have to get in front of you to stand a chance of being in the "safest place" for them, wouldn't they? Unless they plonk themselves in primary??? If there is somone, you know is slower, infront of you (even if they pushed past you to get there) couldn't you just adopt primary until you get past the said "offender" or would you wobble too much???
  • roger_merrimanroger_merriman Posts: 6,165
    i'm another LIT in that i don't bother going to the ASL unless it's a seriously cloggled bit of road and i'm carefully flittering though. and i will not get my bit of road ie middle of lane etc.

    when i do commute is on big green that is a long way from a nice bike,(big heavy hybrid) so i don't tend be that fast apart from away from the lights where for what ever reason i seem to quick off the mark.

    which does some times mean do end up playing tag with faster bikes as sure enough as i leave them for dead when the lights go green they will catch me up once going, and like wise i'm not going to wait for them to build up speed they are not going to wait behind me either.

    never tends to be a problem but i do notice it.
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