sportive etiquette?

speedy641

You're on a sportive, you get chatting for a reasonable length of time to another rider, he is apparently keen to ride with you...however you are starting to pull away on hills and wait a couple of times for him at the top....but you are starting to lose time and you do want to turn in a good finshing time....

....what do you do? ... carry on riding with him ....not wait after the next hill?


It's happened a couple of times to me, in the past I have just not waited :oops: ...but have felt a bit awkward about it...anyone have a view/solution/standard practice?

johna101

Crush him on the next climb so bad he never wants to ride a bike again. Make sure the last thing he remembers before sleep for the next month is the sound of your manic laughter as your backside disappears up the road :twisted:

Er, sorry, wishful thinking...

But seriously, it depends if you value the chat or the time. We're all out to have fun, I really don't think someone would mind you pushing on ahead. Just go. Say bye if yo get the chance. I do a lot of chatting (and wheel sucking) on the flats, but on a hill, I want you to leave me to my suffering. Might chat again later over a cake at the end (if I make it).

John

speedy641

nice one John...

'Crush him on the next climb so bad he never wants to ride a bike again'

I do like the tough approach, kinda straight forward and honest if a little brutal...


seriously though, probably being over concerned about it, just didn't want to spoil the camraderie of these events!

oldwelshman

Just wish him luck with the rest of the ride and say you will greet him at the finish with a cofee

popette

What if the person is your partner?

On the Cheshire Cat I started the ride with my husband but after a mile or so, I realised that he wasn't with me any more. I just kept on going - we were doing different routes so I wasn't going to see him again on the day - I hadn't said goodbye or have a good ride or anything. I felt a bit bad but not that bad.

johna101

popette wrote:

What if the person is your partner?

Speaking for the male ego, you're lucky he hasn't divorced you. He had probably stopped to help a sick rabbit at the side of the road, or was injured, lying in a ditch bleeding after you ran him off the road without noticing, or something...He probably just said he hadn't noticed you were gone.

Stuck on a Giant

Finally this year I'm riding stronger than Mrs G, so we've had to plan strategy beforehand. White Horse Challenge, we hadn't done this, so I waited at the first food stop and then rode with her. At the HHH, we'd agreed to do our own thing (and I'd made sure she carried a phone in case of problems, even though she complained about the extra weight). Not sure what to do at Tour of Wessex as the Gold looks out of my reach, but within hers, so might help her. Have already agreed to help her at Highclere.

But as for people you don't know, you do your own thing, and don't take the pi** by wheelsucking all the time - to the girl on the HHH near the end, I could only just hold your wheel, never mind help with the work!

agnello

[quote="
But as for people you don't know, you do your own thing, and don't take the pi** by wheelsucking all the time - to the girl on the HHH near the end, I could only just hold your wheel, never mind help with the work![/quote]

in other words don't wheelsuck...

...unless you're me

:?:

I've experienced plenty of people with that excuse on sportives

pneumatic

If you know the person, do the deal before the start (wait or not wait). I have a good riding mate and we do just that. I dropped him on the Edinburgh St Andrews (and I was depending on him for dry clothes and a hot drink at the end) Fine. He dropped me later that year on the Ventoux. Also fine.

As for strangers, personally I see nothing wrong with pushing on. If you are uber-sensitive about it, just say something like "Nice talking to you; hope to see you later on." There is always a chance they will catch up with you later anyway.

Rev\'d Gatlin

"Look out lads, here comes the etiquette police."

suze

popette wrote:

What if the person is your partner?

On the Cheshire Cat I started the ride with my husband but after a mile or so, I realised that he wasn't with me any more. I just kept on going - we were doing different routes so I wasn't going to see him again on the day - I hadn't said goodbye or have a good ride or anything. I felt a bit bad but not that bad.

Yep similar thing happened to me on the Brian Robinson challenge. It always does as Mr Suze is a bit slower than myself when the roads go up. However he firmly puts me in my place on the track.... :roll: I don't tend to ride off on purpose, it just happens and I end up riding with lots of different people. Some ride off and I ride off from others I think it's Ok to do this as we all ride at different speeds at different stages of the sportive. (We all have a bad patch)

pneumatic

Rev\'d Gatlin wrote:

"Look out lads, here comes the etiquette police."

Aye right! the one at the front is saying "see ya, boys!, last one to the pub's a wuss!" and the one at the back is about to stamp on the pedals and cream the lot of 'em. You can see the evil smirk on his face already!

vorsprung

speedy641 wrote:

You're on a sportive, you get chatting for a reasonable length of time to another rider, he is apparently keen to ride with you...however you are starting to pull away on hills and wait a couple of times for him at the top....but you are starting to lose time and you do want to turn in a good finshing time....

....what do you do? ... carry on riding with him ....not wait after the next hill?


It's happened a couple of times to me, in the past I have just not waited :oops: ...but have felt a bit awkward about it...anyone have a view/solution/standard practice?

i think most riders who are slower would not want to hold you up.

If they don't say "go on" then say "ok see you at the finish! have a good ride!" at the bottom of the next hill

Rich158

It depends upon the situation. Recently I rode an 80 mile sportive with two guys, we had a good chat and shared the workload. However over the last 20 miles it was patently obvious that I was stronger than them, especially on the climbs, however I waited and gave them the benefit of me leading for two reasons. One, pulling them along will have made me a stronger rider, and two a sense of cameraderie having shared the workload for 60 odd miles. I still got my gold time, so losing time wasn't an issue.

However doing the Fred Whitton, I picked up a few people on the way round, and nearly always dropped them on the climbs (all except Hardknott that is). However I didn't feel guilty and just rode off into the distance. This was due largely to the lack of banter, and the feeling that it was every man for himself.

I have also been dropped by a group of faster guys, and didn't feel bad about it at all, I simply couldn't keep up and tbh was relieved when I fell off the back of the group.

rowman

You may actually benefit the rider you're riding away from? For example (and I've been the slower rider on numerous occasions) if your companion is pushing slight too hard to keep up with you then they are going to suffer later on in the ride? So riding away would allow them to reset their power output to a level more suited to their genetics/current fitness level?

Only a thought...

Rowman

juggler

I think it is subjective and hard to be too judgemental. If a fast group comes past me I try hang on but by definition I can't pull my own weight. On the HHH a group passed me and this ended up being me and 2 other guys. They towed me along for a while, but no way could I maintain that pace at the front and on every climb I dropped back and then fought to get on their wheel on the descent... Eventually they rode off, but must have tired as I passed them several miles later...earlier a guy was on my wheel and I was wondering why he wasn't working.. But after a while I looked round and he wasn't there anymore. So I think a lot of the time guys are just trying to hang on rather than being lazy.

Roadcrawler

I enjoy the banter and some temporary company on a Sportive but I ride my own ride. I'll hang when it's in my zone and share the work, say bye on the rare occasion when I'm going faster and drift off the back when the quality rolls by. Despite the bad patches I always enjoy myself and try to finish with some panache. Did my best ever Sportive @ the recent HHH77 so it's still getting better

Stuck on a Giant

juggler, I'm with you - I'll happily take a turn on the front, and did several times earlier in the ride, but by the end, I was maxing out just to grab the wheels as they came past, and usually lost them on the climbs.
I'm sure I read somewhere that having someone behind you actually helps the rider at the front - no idea how it works but it makes me feel a little less guilty for hitching a ride!

toontra

I don't mind being druaghted or feel guilty about doing it myself - it all equals out. The sportive behaviour I don't approve of is groups passing so close they actually rub your shoulder, or spitting/snot-shooting with someone directly behind, or generally acting as if they are in the pro peleton and behaving like pr@ts. Let's face it, pro riders are way better than "fun runners" and I really think a sense of perspective is needed on open-road sportives.

Mostly this macho nonsense is just plain funny but it sometimes verges on the dangerous.

markos1963

Its difficult to know what to do. If you agree to ride with a lesser rider before the event then I feel you're duty bound to stick around unless they tell you to scram, if its a hanger on then by all means be sociable but be clear that you'll ride your own pace.

I find it difficult if you come across a slower group, judging if its worth your while sticking with them to offload some work or to pass and risk blowing up later on riding on your own. Same with faster groups, if they're too fast you'll run out of steam too early but if they are going at the right pace you can get a good time in.

fenski

toontra wrote:

I don't mind being druaghted or feel guilty about doing it myself - it all equals out. The sportive behaviour I don't approve of is groups passing so close they actually rub your shoulder, or spitting/snot-shooting with someone directly behind, or generally acting as if they are in the pro peloton and behaving like pr@ts. Let's face it, pro riders are way better than "fun runners" and I really think a sense of perspective is needed on open-road sportives.

Mostly this macho nonsense is just plain funny but it sometimes verges on the dangerous.

+1

There's a certain bike club who've been at the sportives I've done who behave exactly like this - a total bunch of tools in my opinion

Kevparr

Interesting experience in my first Sportive yesterday where there were only 77 entries. I was one of the last to start and started with in a group of 8, but after a mile it became clear the pace they were riding was much quicker than I was able to go, so I dropped off and hardly saw another rider for the rest of the event, so didn’t get the chance of chatting and riding with anyone else. Thank god I took my ipod!!! Learning point for my future Sportives is to wake up and get to the start earlier.

disgruntledgoat

fenski wrote:

toontra wrote:

I don't mind being druaghted or feel guilty about doing it myself - it all equals out. The sportive behaviour I don't approve of is groups passing so close they actually rub your shoulder, or spitting/snot-shooting with someone directly behind, or generally acting as if they are in the pro peloton and behaving like pr@ts. Let's face it, pro riders are way better than "fun runners" and I really think a sense of perspective is needed on open-road sportives.

Mostly this macho nonsense is just plain funny but it sometimes verges on the dangerous.

+1

There's a certain bike club who've been at the sportives I've done who behave exactly like this - a total bunch of tools in my opinion

Oh go on, name names! Give us a clue!

Droops

What about the dirty, inconsiderate, lazy @rseholes who throw their gel wrappers etc on the road? Why not just stuff it back in your pocket? You're gonna wash the jersey after the ride anyway.
Mind you, I do have a bit of a thing about litter-droppers in general. :evil:

Le Commentateur

I think with strangers you encounter on the ride, there comes a point where you may as well assume the conversation is over and you'll be off on your own or with another group.

Somethimes the dropee will do a Captain Oates ("I'm just going outside, I may be some time...") and mention they will linger for a bit the next feed stop or otherwise ease off a little, allowing you a guilt free choice.

I think where it is bad is a when there is an apparently pre-planned club group and the competitive regulars are not interested in helping the newbies or less-frequently riding members -- I've seen it happen where people whose face doesn't fit are left to fend for themselves by others determined to ride for personal ego-maniac gold-time "glory" (this being a sportive remember) rather than enable the group as a whole do an optimum ride, which is a pretty bad attitude. It's not happened to me personally, but I've seen it take place -- guess that's personalities though.

Mossrider

I often do sportives with my brother and we always finish together. We share the time at the front and if one of us is having a hard time (usually me - 9 years older, heavier bike, and I've never been courted to join the England cross country team) the other spends a little more time at the front.

What does get my goat however is, as recently happened, we are faithfully sharing the work and others tag on. This is fine for short distances, everyone enjoys a tow, but after 8 miles and having gathered a dozen wheel suckers not one took a turn. My brother and I kept alternating at the front every couple of minutes, so it was clear we did not want to be at the front all the time, but no one else came forward. Eventually I shouted back for someone to take a turn and in fairness two did for a couple of minutes, but the rest hung back. With one last climb we pushed hard and managed to lose them before the finishing post. Which is fortunate as if they'd tried to pass us in the last few hundred yards words might have been said!

I'm a club rider and I guess that you are that much more used to co-operating that it comes naturally. It's often (but by no means exclusively) those in a club shirt that take a turn. Possibly its the confidence from regular group riding?

FransJacques

Mossrider wrote:

Which is fortunate as if they'd tried to pass us in the last few hundred yards words might have been said!

I'm a club rider and I guess that you are that much more used to co-operating that it comes naturally. It's often (but by no means exclusively) those in a club shirt that take a turn. Possibly its the confidence from regular group riding?

I think your last paragraph explains your anger in the earlier sentense. There are a million reasons why someone doesn't take a pull. In the Evans KOTD ride I did a 180 km ITT and didn't manage to find someone to ride with (! started after 9am). So my thinking is if I'm 140/160 kms into a ride and haven't had a breath of draft all day long I'll gladly take a 2/3 min pull off of someone. I will offer them to grab my wheel when I go by, so at least I reciprocate, even if in a hollow way.

But also, people may want to eat, or take a break, or don't have the confidence to lead, were not taught pack behaviour, or some are just triathletes with no clue :-p

In terms of hanging or shooting, I'll hang if I know the guys and working well together. But like someone said, if your pace sends someone into the red or vice-versa, they'll burn all their matches too far from the finish and really be cooked.

I nearly *ALWAYS* say "hi" or my favourite "Keep on truckin" if I pass someone. Esp if they're dying on a hill. And I always offer help to those on the side of the road - just a quick "are you OK". I think that's a lot more important than dropping someone still riding. But it's nice to see such a sensitive group of riders!

sampras38

pneumatic wrote:

If you know the person, do the deal before the start (wait or not wait). I have a good riding mate and we do just that. I dropped him on the Edinburgh St Andrews (and I was depending on him for dry clothes and a hot drink at the end) Fine. He dropped me later that year on the Ventoux. Also fine.

As for strangers, personally I see nothing wrong with pushing on. If you are uber-sensitive about it, just say something like "Nice talking to you; hope to see you later on." There is always a chance they will catch up with you later anyway.

Agree with this. I'm doing the longer of the 2 Wales dragon rides in a couple weeks with 2 mates. It seems my training has gone a little better than theirs so they've both told me not to wait for them if I feel strong. None of us have done the ride before so being the way we are I'm sure we'll all be aiming to do as well as possible. We'll see.

Mossrider

FransJacques wrote:

Mossrider wrote:

Which is fortunate as if they'd tried to pass us in the last few hundred yards words might have been said!

I'm a club rider and I guess that you are that much more used to co-operating that it comes naturally. It's often (but by no means exclusively) those in a club shirt that take a turn. Possibly its the confidence from regular group riding?

I think your last paragraph explains your anger in the earlier sentense. There are a million reasons why someone doesn't take a pull. In the Evans KOTD ride I did a 180 km ITT and didn't manage to find someone to ride with (! started after 9am). So my thinking is if I'm 140/160 kms into a ride and haven't had a breath of draft all day long I'll gladly take a 2/3 min pull off of someone. I will offer them to grab my wheel when I go by, so at least I reciprocate, even if in a hollow way.

But also, people may want to eat, or take a break, or don't have the confidence to lead, were not taught pack behaviour, or some are just triathletes with no clue :-p

No problem with giving anyone a tow for a mile or two, particularly if they are having a bad time: but eight and not one of them even said "hello"!Even when I'm having a hard time and just glad of a tow, I try (with the possible exception of the very beginning of a ride when every one is fresh and pushing) to take at least a short turn at the front, its just good manners even if you can't hold it there for long.

cougie

Interesting stuff at the aqueduct ride at the weekend - only a small number of riders and much better behaviour. No chaingangs coming past and almost bumping shoulders and i didnt see any littering.
Still some desperate riding though - not stopping at junctions in order to keep up momentum for hills and one guy almost got hit.

Gazzaputt

fenski wrote:

There's a certain bike club who've been at the sportives I've done who behave exactly like this - a total bunch of tools in my opinion

Medway Velo.

Came past me a descent on the Downland Sportive in a group. How one of their riders didn't take me out I'll never know. Should know better group riding.

Had the last laugh dropped them on the long climb and never saw hide nor hair of them again :twisted: