Manual advice

Kiblams

I had been reading the techniques article from last week on Bikeradar, and decided to try one of the basics (a Manual) with a hope to then turn it into big bunnyhop once mastered. So I followed the instructions on the guide, and I have found that I am unable to lift the front of the bike and get my weight over the back axel. All that seems to happen is the front wheel comes up about a foot and then drops without my managing to even slow its descent back to the pavement.

I cant seem to make any progress on it and am getting very frustrated. can't figure out if it is related to the bike or my complete lack of talent.

I am hoping that it is a bike issue as I have never had issues lifting the front of a bike for a short period of time and can even do a bunnyhop by lifting the front and back of the bike at the same time with flat pedals. I realy want to be able to do a bunnyhop by lifting the front and then scooping the back instead of both at the same time as the extra height would be very useful.

So if anyone has any advice or ideas on why I am useless, please let me know

Cheers

Kiblams

Forgot to mention that I also tried removing the seat and post to see if I could shift my weight further backwards, even with my arse right over the back wheel;l no avail...

Simon430

Manualing is a hard technique to do, IMO, it's mainly down to confidence. You have to lean very far back to even have a chance of keeping the front wheel the air. You should keep on trying, really pull back hard on the handlebars and see if you come off the back, if you don't, try again until you know where you limits are. Only when you know your limits then can you attempt to manual. Maybe try mastering the wheelie first?

Or, is your front end on your bike really heavy?

Kiblams

Cheers for the reply, it might be a heavy front end issue as I have put some heavy duty surly forks and an unbranded disk wheel up front on an aluminium frame.

I realy try to pull backwards with the aim of actually overshooting (and jumping off the back) but I just cant get the bike that far back, at this point I would be extatic to actually fall off the back of the bike as that would mean that it was possible.

Could it be to do with the length of the stem?

Cheers.

abductee

Crouch forward and push the handlebars down to compress the fork then push your weight up and to the rear. As you move backwards on the bike start to lift the front wheel. The lift needs to come from your body moving not from bending your arms.

Kiblams

Will try to do that Abductee and will let you know how I get on in the morrow. By the way, my front fork is rigid so cant compress the fork (just incase that makes a difference with your advice)

Simon430

Kiblams wrote:

I realy try to pull backwards with the aim of actually overshooting (and jumping off the back) but I just cant get the bike that far back, at this point I would be extatic to actually fall off the back of the bike as that would mean that it was possible.

You really do need to pull and lean back as your arms can stretch, you'll be suprised how far you can lean back with out falling off. But you need to find the balance point first.

Kiblams

Simon430 wrote:

You really do need to pull and lean back as your arms can stretch, you'll be suprised how far you can lean back with out falling off. But you need to find the balance point first.

Falling off the back isn't my problem Simon actually reaching the balance point would be a start!

I looked up the weight of my front forks and they are steel but still come in at least 1kg lighter than most RockShox forks upto the £500 price bracket, so that suggests that my front end shouldn't be too heavy

xtreem

Judging by your bike on the sig., it doesnt have the best geometry for manuals.
And your stem is a bit long. But it's not impossible to do a manual.

Keep your feet level, and push the bike foward using the hands and feet and lean back.
Your ass should be above the middle of rear tire and by that above the rear axle.
And keep you hand on the rear brake all the time. The rest is a lot of practise.

Btw, as Simon430 said learn the wheelie well first, because you'll go nowhere
with the manual.

Kiblams

Cheers Xtreem, I hadn't thought of puching the bike forward as part of the movement. Will try a wheelie first then. The reason I am chosing to learn a manual rather than wheelie is that my end goal is a better bunnyhop than I am currently acheiving, and a manual will enable me to do that. I have always been of the opinion that a wheelie was used to show off and has no practical use (though I am probably wrong)

Cheers again, will be a busy morning before work trying to nail this!

xtreem

[b]Kiblams[/b] wrote:

The reason I am chosing to learn a manual rather than wheelie is that my end goal is a better bunnyhop than I am currently acheiving, and a manual will enable me to do that.

Ha, about that part. You don't really push the bike foward to lift the front wheel then the
back so you can bunnyhop higher. You just lean and pull on the handlebars backwards.

If you push the bike foward to lift the front wheel before the jump, you just mess the
whole thing. Just lean and pull at the same time, and then push the bike foward as
you're lifting the rear wheel.

I'm still not good at manuals, but about bunnyhops, I can get a decent height.

Kiblams

Xtreem wrote:

Judging by your bike on the sig., it doesnt have the best geometry for manuals.

Just out of curiosity, what part of the geometry isn't suited to manuals? I have been considering replacing the fork with a less harsh and possibly lighter one so I may be able to change that (will still be rigid though)

Chaz.Harding

It's just a big bike. Long and tall, cause it's a XC bike. A jump bike would be better for learning on, or better yet, a BMX. Small, really small actually, so easier to get your weight back.

Remember, you weight has to be behind ( :shock: :shock: ) the rear axle, for the bike to lift up...

It's a bloody long way back. You just aren't getting back far enough. Getting the shortest stem possible will help, but will probably mess the handling up.

xtreem

As bigchazrocks said.
Your fork is low, your stem is long and probably the top tube is long too.
It's just going to be a hard work to manage to learn to manual on that one,
but I think you can pull above 1ft of bunnyhop on that one.

Kiblams

Thanks for the input guys, will be heading out to the local park where there are some curbs etc. to try this stuff out. Not sure why, but I have been looking at a slightly more recent picture of the bike and the geometry seems alot better than the one in my sig. Take a look and let me know if you can see the same:



Cheers again

Kiblams

Hey all,

Just been out on a short ride to the park and managed to pull a few wheelies and had a few jumps off the back of the bike, so the good news is I can lft the front of the bike! which I am chuffed about.

Now for the bad news... I didn't manage to get too many attempts before I had one of those moments in life.

Let me elaborate; Imagine if you can an overweight 25 year old on a blue bike riding in what seems to be circles, he then seems to be doing an odd motion which resembles a daddy long legs after a child has superglued its legs to the pavement. Now the cyclist halts this for a little while in deep thought, before setting off again. He proceeds to crouch down on the bike getting as low as he can, and upon exending his arms and legs he catches his shorts on the front of the saddle...

A moment later and after reaching for my arse I discover that I have ripped a hole not only in my old baggy shorts, but also in my boxers underneath!!! I then proceeded (with an arse cheek out basking in the morning sun) to sharpishly speed off down the road toward the haven of my house.

Thank god I have a good sense of humour!

jairaj

lol good work my friend keep it up.

I've just started to learn the manual too. the most i've managed to do is fall on my arse and get a lovely mud stain on my cheeks, got a few funny looks from people in the park, mostly from girls 8)

Its crazy tho just how far back you have to be for the balancing point :shock:

Salsa

Manuals are easy once mastered but really hard to learn. I can now manual as far as I like really but it didn't come easily or quick.
The easiest one to learn on an mtb is the coaster manual (seat high, sitting down, dragging the brake as needed, leaning back as needed) this only took me a couple of weeks of practice to learn.

The proper manuals I do on my bmx took over a year to learn but tbh as soon as I just went out to a car park & practiced non stop for at least an hour a time I got them after a couple of weeks. This was just more honing my technique though as I could do 10-20m at this point.

You also have to learn your own style, some people do them leaning really far back with the wheel low, I shift my body weight forward & up, with the front wheel higher as I find it more stable as after 10m or so I just glide & pump only when I really need to. Use the brake, don't use the brake, whatever feels best for you. I can do both but prefer using the brake on high speed manuals.

Don't expect to just get them quickly, 1st learn a smooth consistent pull up, next try to glide a few metres, now train your brain so you automatically know how/when to shift your weight (pump), next learn the correct balance point as by this point your probably not back far enough, finally master it.

xtreem

Kiblams, about the shorts, I did that twice before too.

From this prerspective your bike looks ok for manualing. On your sig looks long,
on this one looks short. So I think you shouldn't have any problem practising.

abductee

Well officer it was like this, some fellers on a special interest internet forum told me to go down the park and pull my front up, The next think I know is my 4*se is hanging out the back of my trousers and that's when all the children ran out of the park screaming I don't see anything wrong with it.