Audax v Road frames

APIII

I've been toying recently with the idea of an audax frame. I currently have two road bikes, both with racing geometry. The most recent one, a full carbon frame, is quite comfortable over longer distances, but I've often asked myself if I would be better off with something built for a little comfort rather than speed. I mean, after a few hours in the saddle, I do develop some minor aches and pains, and my speed can drop significantly towards the end of a ride. Despite eating/drinking properly, is this just a natural consequence of distance cycling, or could a change of frame improve things? I don't race, just do sportives, so I guess I'm thinking of the tortoise and the hare here, the race bike being quicker over shorter distances, but the comfort of a more relaxed geometry paying dividends over longer distances. I certainly enjoy the direct feedback and responsiveness from my bike, but can anyone advise whether this sort of ride feel can be maintained with a less aggressive frame? Alternatively, at what distance/time in saddle do those non-racers amongst you decide to switch from race bike to something else?

Thanks

Monty Dog

The modern incarnation of the audax bike is the sportive bike - unless of course you want to fit mudguards and a pannier rack. That said, if you want more comfort, then try running a slighter wider tyre at a lower pressure e.g. try 700x25 tyres at 6 bars. Likewise, try raising the bars slightly (spacers / flip stem), shorten reach (shorter stem) - a lot cheaper alternatives to a whole new bike.

APIII

I'll admit that the option to stick panniers on the back is another reason I'm looking. I've got a saddlebag for my roadbike, but I would like the option of tent camping once in a while (even with the lightest gear I can't make it all fit into an 18 litre saddlebag). I'm just wondering what sort of compromise you have to make in terms of ride.
BTW, I haven't spent a single penny on my bike this year, so it could be the perfect excuse for a new frame

rickhotrod

For more comfort, fit 28mm tyres and drop the pressure to 5 bars. For even more comfort, fit 32mm tyres and drop the pressure to 4 bars. For even even more comfort, fit 38mm tyres and drop the pressure to 3.5 bars. For even even even more comfort, fit 47mm tyres and drop the pressure to 3 bars.

I wouldn't go lower than 3 bars!

toontra

I'm. not sure what your budget is but what you're describing seems to be covered almost exactly by the Van Nicholas Yukon - slightly relaxed geometry, ability to take guards and rack, but still a damned fast machine.

I've had one for 18 months and in that time done a 6-day unsupported LEJoG (with a rackbag), several sportives (with very respectable times!), many longer audaxes and training right throughout the winter with the mudguards fitted. It really is as close to a fast, light, do-it-all machine as you're likely to get, yet almost indestructible in terms of frame material (lifetime guarantee).

Blonde

Audax bike are primarilty designed so that you can fit mudguards. You ought to be able to get comfortable on any type of bike though (within reason) - it's all down to the set up and the quality of the frame and fork. (i.e. some cheaper frames may simply not be as good as more expensive ones and you may find they aren't ever going to be as confortable as something made from better material and with a better design, no matter what adjustments you make). If you don't care about getting your arse and feet wet, maybe you could check your position is set at optimum for comfort on your other bike? Is the bike a bit low at the front end? Without telliing us where the aches and pains are, it's hard to advise, but that could be one factor. You can easily raise the handlebar height with a new fork (cut to required length and fit spacers) or with an adjustable stem or an angled stem to give more height. If it's saddle problems, again position is critical although another saddle could also be investigated. To some extent aches and pains can be caused by muscles not recruiting properly and then shifting the focus to other muscle groups. They can also be caused by ill fitting shoes or poor cleat positioning as well as by being tense or not shifting your position occasionally when riding. Relaxing and remembering to get out of the saddle and stretch every so often can help to prevent any back/shoulder or neck stiffness. If you have raised your mileage you may expect some aches and pains as it takes a little time to adjust to the new mileage. However raising your mileage is also the time when any existing weakness or any problems with the bike set-up will become more apparent, so you shouldn't just accept it, but take steps to address any problems before they cause you injury or prevent you riding.

APIII

Thanks for the replies. Perhaps I should give some more details:
I'm nearly 37, rode about 5,000 miles last year. Mostly without problem, even 10 1/2 hours on the Marmotte (yes, I'm not quick) was ok, apart from the sore arse. However, I can't say I enjoy distances over about 80 miles, but is that just a fact of life, or could the bike play a part? I ride a Pinarello Prince, a very nice bike, very responsive, corners like it's on rails, etc. Aches and pains aren't major, just some numbness in the front of the shoulders occasionally. I did have some calf pain last year, but after a fitness assessment with a coach, they adjusted my saddle position slightly and everything has been ok since.
The Yukon sounds like a great bike. Enigma and Burls seem to offer similar frames. Steel still seems a popular option with the likes of Mercian, etc. Are these frames really a compromise, or just a sensible choice for anyone not racing?

toontra

APIII wrote:

...... or just a sensible choice for anyone not racing?

I think that's exactly it. The Yukon (and probably the other ti frames you mention) will do everything apart from full-on racing and heavy-laden touring. It will certainly help with comfort on longer distances (all else being equal).

calvjones

toontra wrote:

APIII wrote:

...... or just a sensible choice for anyone not racing?

I think that's exactly it. The Yukon (and probably the other ti frames you mention) will do everything apart from full-on racing and heavy-laden touring. It will certainly help with comfort on longer distances (all else being equal).

Another vote for the Yukon. I have an Airborne Carpe Diem (same bike, or maybe its the Amazon now - has bosses for Cantilever brakes and space for balloon tyres and my problem is that I use the Airborne for commuting but am having difficulty justifying buying a 'nice' bike for best cos the Airborne is so damn good. Did Flanders on it this year and it just floated along the cobbles and up the Muur*. Not that light (1.6Kg in a 56) but who cares?


* there may be an element of artistic license in this last bit.

Blonde

I find my Sunday (now called Sabbath) September (their "audax" modell) very comfortable. It's titanium with a carbon fbre fork. However I find my Serotta racing frame (Carbon fibre with Ti chain stays and lugs) equally, if not in fact more comfortable. I am comfortable up to 200-230km on both bikes, but haven't tried either over that distance. I am also reasonably comforatble on my steel fixed One One, Il Pompino, up to 200km, but again I haven't ridden further than that on it. A couple of years ago I rode a 600km audax event on a steel Bob Jackson racing frame without any comfort issues (or mudguards, as even clip on race blades wouldn't fit) , but the aluminium Ribble "audax" bike I once owned (sold specifically as an audax/winter bike) was never comfortable for me past about 80km. That's why I still think comfort is down to bike quality and set-up, rather than what type of bike it is. The type of bike you choose depends on whether you want mudguards and the ability to carry luggage. For instance, I chose my fixed bike due to it's ability to be fitted with rack and mudguards, as I knew I'd be using it for commuting. I chose the Sunday Septmeber because I needed a weekend bike that would could be fitted with mudguards - because even when it isn't raining, the roads in the UK are wet most mornings throughout autumn, winter and sping. I only ride the Serotta on dry roads wherever possible, as I don't like having a wet arse and find I can't cycle as far if I have, as it's not comfortable; a shame really, because, apart from the wet bum, it's the most comfortable bike I own, but it gets used the least!

I thinik if you're having comfort issues on a decent quality bike then it's time to review your set-up. Remember that our bodies do change over time it's worth taking a fresh look as your bike position every few years and making adjustments to suit, as you won't stay the same for ever.

acorn_user

Back in the day, everyone's racing bikes could take mudguards too. Clubman type bikes Now clearances are so thin that there is no space. It is also a reflection of the globalisation of the industry (carbon frames etc). It's hard to make lots of moulds, so everyone gets the same frame. Except that what works in Italy and the US might not work in the UK and Belgium. That's one of the reasons why the Kinesis UK and other UK designed bikes are typically better suited to UK conditions. Even if there is a downpour, the roads will be dry within an hour or so.

tenor

Typically, a Sportive event is about 100 to 200k and run during good daylight. There is often good support facilities, also.
An Audax event can be 300, 400, 600, 800 and even 1200k (PBP) and continue through the night in all kinds of weather and road conditions. At these distances other factors come into play.
Consequently the Audax bike needs to have stable handling, greater comfort, reliable lights and be able to carry extra equipment, spare clothing, tools, etc, as the rider will need to be much more self sufficient.
These requirements are quite different from a Sportive machine, which is really just a race bike with slightly more relaxed (stable) geometry and a wider choice of mostly lower gears.

tenor

Typically, a Sportive event is about 100 to 200k and run during good daylight. There is often good support facilities, also.
An Audax event can be 300, 400, 600, 800 and even 1200k (PBP) and continue through the night in all kinds of weather and road conditions. At these distances other factors come into play.
Consequently the Audax bike needs to have stable handling, greater comfort, reliable lights and be able to carry extra equipment, spare clothing, tools, etc, as the rider will need to be much more self sufficient.
These requirements are quite different from a Sportive machine, which is really just a race bike with slightly more relaxed (stable) geometry and a wider choice of mostly lower gears.