Blockhaus out of the Giro

le_patron

frenchfighter wrote:

DaveyL wrote:

This is such an over-reaction. The queen stage is still 260 km with what looks like about 3000 m of climbing. There will be maybe 300-400 m less ascent on the Blockhaus stage.

I look forward to bumping this thread up to the top once the carnage starts - we'll see whether the riders involved think it's been turned into a chipper.

I agree. Having a 260k stage in a stage race even if it is just rolling, let alone mountainous is crazy - Paris Roubaix is pan flat and 260k (50k cobbles); MSR is 300k and has a couple of bumps.

Stage 16 of the ’07 TdF was 221 km’s with 5755 metres of climbing.

andyp

What's the old cliche, the riders make the race not the course? There's an element of truth in this and it'll be interesting to see how the Giro turns out. There are ample opportunities to gain time on seemingly transitional stages so all the contenders will need to be alert to this. It could be a great race. It could also be dull. Let's see.

DaveyL

Blazing Saddles wrote:

DaveyL wrote:

This is such an over-reaction. The queen stage is still 260 km with what looks like about 3000 m of climbing. There will be maybe 300-400 m less ascent on the Blockhaus stage.

I don't disagree over the situation with stage 10.
To me, it's has adequate climbing, but is too long.
However, the race isn't just about this stage. You keep highlighting this stage. Why?
Because, there isn't another that fits the argument. Maybe stage 16, but that's it.
The Centanary Giro and what haven't we got?
No Stelvio or Gavia
No Mortirolo or Marmorlada
No Plan de Corones or Zoncolan (not that I favour these horrendously steep ramps, but the Tifosi do love them)
No Monte Bondone or any of the other Dolomite Passi, such as Pordoi.

The Blockhaus stage is a daft cavalry charge, but it was to be the end of race "special", along with Versuvius. Only one of these two can be climbed to the top! :shock:
Now it's not.

As for not doing the last 400 metres of climbing, we shall now never know whether it would have impacted upon the GC.

I will, however finish with this:
I wonder what Floyd Landis would have given not to have to have had to climb that last 400 metres of stage 16, in 2006?

I keep going on about it because I got the impression people felt it had been "watered down". The route has been known for a long time but you only feel compelled to complain about the route in general, and not the changes, now? I do agree with your general point that the route, for the centenary, has missed out a lot of the Giro monuments. But it seems to me this thread is more about the *modifications* that have since been made, and in my opinion the modifications to the route won't change the race much overall.

As for the Landis point, that's a bit odd as it's unlikely a rider will bonk on an 83 km stage, but you never know. Still, you are right that the differences often occur at the end of a MTF - the end of this one will still happen it'll just be 4 km earlier.

By the way, La Toussuire is a climb of 1100 m - coincidentally enough, about the same elevation the riders will now gain on the watered down Blockhaus.

Anyway, we'll see how easy the riders think it is once the race gets going. As the point has already been made - if the riders want to race hard, it will be tough no matter what the parcours. And I suspect it will, the days of pootling along for a few hours before winding it up for the last 50 km are long gone.

frenchfighter

The glory of being able to say I won the centenary Giro is worth a great deal, so I am certain this will add an extra element of motivation to the race and make i exciting regardless of the changes.

A few points that you might like to note about this Giro:
- Venice hasn't appeared as a stage finish since 1952.
- Alpe di Siusi on stage 5; check that out for fireworks.
- 7 stages are more than 200k
- Stage 9 is a circuit race in Milan which doesn't leave its borders which isn't commonly found in grand tours (9 laps and 19 corners)
- Stage 10's Moncenisio is a true beast.
- Stage 15: Pantani's training ground.
- Blockhaus is where Merckx unleashed devastating acceleration in 1967.
- Vesuvio: beautiful and certainly a ramp to be wary of.
- Stage 21: beautiful city to finish in.

Looks like a pretty good Giro to me.

Stage 10 change is disappointing as it was meant to mimic Coppi's 12 minute win stage 17 win in 1949 to take the jersey two days before the end. The race leader - Adolfo Leoni lost 40mins that day.

micron

I expect we're only complaining about the changes to this stage now because they only happened now - can't claim to have the gift of second sight

DaveyL

Yes indeed - my point was that some poeple are complaining about the route *in general* when it has been known for a long time. Perhaps that wasn't clear the first time (now I'm beginning to see why I end up repeating myself so much :roll: )

Kléber

It's all about the riders, not the route. Yes things can be spectacular but too many mountain stages can see the riders mark each other and wait for the final climb each day, they just won't light the touchpaper from the first climb.

Personally I'd like to see some sort of rule banning any stage longer than 200km in the third week of a grand tour, it is too much at times and does not add to the spectacle.

blazing_saddles

Not going to bang on about it.
Just to say that the decision is now official and reported in Gazetta.
New finish is the 2006 finish, at 1631 metres, not 2054 or whatever.

However, the organisers realised that having a 67km stage, instead of a 73km stage, might be crucial, so they've stuck on the extra 5.5kms, on the flat, lost on the climb.
Gotta love those efficient Italians. :roll:

DaveyL

When I worked in Munich, one of the German guys in the lab had a sign saying:

Heaven is where the Police are British, the Chefs are French, the Mechanics are German, the Lovers Italian and it's all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the Chefs are British, the mechanics are French, the lovers are Swiss, the Police are German and it's all organised by the Italians....

The Prodigy

DaveyL wrote:

When I worked in Munich, one of the German guys in the lab had a sign saying:

Heaven is where the Police are British, the Chefs are French, the Mechanics are German, the Lovers Italian and it's all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the Chefs are British, the mechanics are French, the lovers are Swiss, the Police are German and it's all organised by the Italians....

nice one

blazing_saddles

DaveyL wrote:

When I worked in Munich, one of the German guys in the lab had a sign saying:
Heaven is where the Police are British, the Chefs are French, the Mechanics are German, the Lovers Italian and it's all organised by the Swiss.
Hell is where the Chefs are British, the mechanics are French, the lovers are Swiss, the Police are German and it's all organised by the Italians....

Davy, just out of interest, I had another look at stage 10 and unless I'm reading it wrong, there's only 1900 metres of catagorised climbing. :?
I agree about it being late to start good moaning.
I started when I first saw the route in late November.

DaveyL

1st bump at 72 - 80 km: 330 m elevation gain
93 - 138.7 km: 1080 m elevation gain
155.7 - 200.8 km: 1530 m elevation gain
244.8 - 251.5 km: 400 m elevation gain

That's roughly about 3300 m of elevation gain - but it could be a bit + or - depnding on the finer detail of the profile.

blazing_saddles

Right. I can see how our figures differ. You've added up figures off the map.
That's a stretch from 93km, to 138.7km!

I was looking at the catagorised climbing, which is:-
817m+701m+416m=1934m
Not a lot for the Queen stage, I think. Unlike the 262km.

frenchfighter

"We don't want to ask a region that is suffering from the earthquake to spend time and money to widen the road," said race director Angelo Zomegnan.

That is a perfectly reasonable explanation.

DaveyL

I wonder how narrow the road can be up there. I was watching some footage of them climbing the Mortirolo a couple of years ago and it is ridiculously narrow. I guess it might be different for the road leading up to a summit finish though.