Cyclescheme & RRP
kingrollo
Posts: 3,198
I have heard from some shops that cyclescheme can only be used against RRP - But have spoke to cyclescheme - who say this doesn't come from them. So has any one ever used a cyclescheme voucher against a sale item ?
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That is the case with Cycle2work scheme, but they are all slightly different. I wasnt able to buy a Wilier Mortirolo with a sale price of 999 as the RRP or SRP was 1200.Cannondale F500
Peugeot Fixed Gear
Specialized Hardrock
Baordman Team Carbon
Haro Freestyler Sport 1984
Coming Soon...Canyon Nerve AM 7.00 -
I can't see why the scheme would impose this rule - I can see why the shops would - they loose 10% when you present a voucher. I suppose my question is does this rule come from the scheme.....or the shop (i suspect the shop !)0
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These kinds of rules come from the shops, full stop.0
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Cyclescheme did tell me that only RRP applies, however there are some shops that do sell for their sale price. The reason for the RRP thing is that the shops pay Cyclescheme a commission out of the sale price (10% I think) so they need to recoup that. Some shops like Spa Cycles have very good web prices and they sell at these plus 12.5% on Cyclescheme sales, this is still below RRP. Ribble (who I have heard may have stopped Cyclescheme) were doing shop price plus £50.
I don't blame bike shops for needing to recoup the commission, but I was slightly "irked" to find that in some instances the manufacturer's RRP was way above what anyone was selling at, and way beyond the 10%, yet the particular LBS's would still not negotiate. They didn't get my voucher, and in any case, the "unreal" RRP's put the bikes beyond the £1k limit - this doesn't make sense, surely, for them as they lose sales that they could still have made a worthwhile margin on.
Note, the above applies to Cyclescheme, which is a specific company, probably the largest independent scheme, which uses LBS's. Other schemes, such as Wiggle, Evans and maybe Halfords, sell at the sticker price, but as they are administering their own scheme they pay no commission to a 3rd party. I have heard that Halfords, when supplying non-stock bikes, charge RRP.
Of course, the best case scenario is where an employer doesn't use a 3rd party scheme (there is absolutely no need to, the admin is little extra if they do it themselves), then the employee has the choice to buy anywhere at the best price they can find.0 -
alfablue wrote:Of course, the best case scenario is where an employer doesn't use a 3rd party scheme (there is absolutely no need to, the admin is little extra if they do it themselves), then the employee has the choice to buy anywhere at the best price they can find.
Alfablue, you appear to know more about this than I do - can you give any info / links on how to do this?0 -
The best bet is to download the forms used by Wiggle or Evans (I think they are freely available) and these can provide a template for the paperwork / contracts for employees to sign, if you customise them.bompington wrote:alfablue wrote:Of course, the best case scenario is where an employer doesn't use a 3rd party scheme (there is absolutely no need to, the admin is little extra if they do it themselves), then the employee has the choice to buy anywhere at the best price they can find.
Alfablue, you appear to know more about this than I do - can you give any info / links on how to do this?
Then check the implementation guidelines on the DFT website, and organise salary sacrifice with payroll.
Organise system to pay bike shops after employees have signed up.
An employer would do most of these steps anyway, even if using a 3rd party.0 -
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If you make your own forms, albeit informed by the above examples, I can't see there being a problem.0
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OK I have an official email from cyclescheme - you know the story - 'sorry Sir its the rules set by cyclescheme - we have to base the price on RRP"
Cyclescheme Reply......
""We do not instruct partner shops to do so, however many partner stores choose to sell sale bikes at full price through the scheme at their discretion, to cover their profit margins, since we take a small commission from what we pay then upon receipt of the redeemed voucher. Unfortunately if you do not wish to pay the RRP, you will need to choose an alternate store that does not do so. """
So there you go - take this with you when shopping in the sales.0 -
kingrollo wrote:OK I have an official email from cyclescheme - you know the story - 'sorry Sir its the rules set by cyclescheme - we have to base the price on RRP"
Cyclescheme Reply......
""We do not instruct partner shops to do so, however many partner stores choose to sell sale bikes at full price through the scheme at their discretion, to cover their profit margins, since we take a small commission from what we pay then upon receipt of the redeemed voucher. Unfortunately if you do not wish to pay the RRP, you will need to choose an alternate store that does not do so. """
So there you go - take this with you when shopping in the sales.
I take it you mean partnershop and not cyclescheme as that wouldn't make sense.
As for setting up your own scheme. My trust managed and I'm sure you've heard about the beauraracy in the health service so that says how easy it actually is.0 -
no the email is from cyclescheme. confirmed they have no rule stating that when using a cyclescheme voucher - they must charge RRP.0
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The shop will normally have a rule that they charge RRP on bikes through cyclescheme simply because they pay a 10% commission on all cyclescheme sales. That 10% is roughly a third of their margin (can be half on some bikes) and out of that margin they have to pay wages etc. If you find a shop willing to let you have a sale bike at sale price then snap it up.0
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guilliano wrote:The shop will normally have a rule that they charge RRP on bikes through cyclescheme simply because they pay a 10% commission on all cyclescheme sales. That 10% is roughly a third of their margin (can be half on some bikes) and out of that margin they have to pay wages etc. If you find a shop willing to let you have a sale bike at sale price then snap it up.
Hmmmmm - so they reduce a bike by £400 - - but then when you present a voucher - they whack the £400 back - this sounds a little more than covering the 10%. Basically they know you want the bike - so they try and weedle another couple of hundred.
The max cyxlescheme voucher is generally £1000 - so the most they can justify is putting £100 back on.0 -
It will depend on the shop. Some will offer a sale bike with a 10% increase over the sale price. It really is a case of seeing what you can get from the shop. I've heard stories of shops charging a 10% surcharge or £50-£100 admin fee on top of the RRP when doing a cyclescheme.0
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That's pretty poor if that's the case but I guess these schemes are all slightly different.
I've just bought an MTB from Evans through the Ride2Work scheme and bought it, along a load of accessories, for the sale prices. Their opinion was that they recoup the full cost of the voucher price so it makes no difference whether they let it go for the sale price or not (I'm led to believe it's my employer and the government that foots the VAT, tax, NI and finance costs and not the shop).
If you can I'd advise you go through Evans or an LBS that will enable you to pay sale prices if you can.0 -
Evans only take vouchers from the scheme they administer so they have no commissions to pay out from it. The majority of LBS will be working with cyclescheme or cycle plus and as such have to pay 10% of the quote to that company0
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guilliano wrote:Evans only take vouchers from the scheme they administer so they have no commissions to pay out from it. The majority of LBS will be working with cyclescheme or cycle plus and as such have to pay 10% of the quote to that company
That's fair enough I suppose as not all shops have the clout of a large organisation like Evans.
In my case my employer run a modified version of the scheme in conjunction with Evans (over 18 months instead of 12) so we had an open day where they came to promote their wares. Ultimately I would have liked to support my LBS but I guess it all comes down to money and although you already save an excellent 40%, it is difficult to argue with an additional 10%.0 -
I have so little sympathy with LBS's that try this sort of stunt. bike is advertised for £900 but if you want to buy it via scheme it is £990 all of a sudden, and if you pay a cash deposit it on it whilst waiting for your voucher you go back and find they've sold it to a cash buyer.
give me a chain or the web shop anytime.0 -
workhard wrote:I have so little sympathy with LBS's that try this sort of stunt. bike is advertised for £900 but if you want to buy it via scheme it is £990 all of a sudden, and if you pay a cash deposit it on it whilst waiting for your voucher you go back and find they've sold it to a cash buyer.
give me a chain or the web shop anytime.
I got this 'RRP only bull' from one lbs and got a quote for a load of stuff up to the value of £1000 (didn't haggle but reconsidering now) only to find he'd try to charge me RRP of £79.99 for a New York 3000 lock (59.99 RRP 50.00 you can find it for on the net). Anyone managed to haggle with a voucher,sorry to hijack the thread!?
Can you change you're mind once the voucher is through as long as it's from the same shop?0 -
I don't think anyone has a problem with the LBS adding the cost of the 10% commission back to the purchase of the bike it is when they will only sell the the bike the RRP even when the sale price was in excess of 10%. That just seems like taking advantage and for that reason if I came across that practice I wouldn't be buying from them and would make my reasons known to them.
Furthermore the cycle to work scheme has undoubtably meant that there has been an across the board increase in cycle sales and as such it could be argued that they should be giving us better discounts and not trying to stick the hand in.
What I would like to see is manufacturers move to say that they will stand over the bicycle warranties on third party sales from cycle to work purchases as the way that cycle to work is set up means that the original owner of the bicycle is the organisation you work for an therefore when you come to the end of the scheme and you buy the bike of them this is then a third party sale which means that all those lifetime or time limited warranties on bike frames are no longer valid. They should recognise the importance of this scheme to encouraging more bike sales and offer this good will gesture to all its customers.0 -
That's not the case as the reciept for the bike has the owner's name on, not the company's and as such the warrantee stands in all cases0
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guilliano wrote:That's not the case as the reciept for the bike has the owner's name on, not the company's and as such the warrantee stands in all cases
I can only talk about my scheme however I don't have a receipt with my name and why should I as I didn't actually pay for anything? I went with a collection letter which I signed to say that I received the bike and the bike shop kept that and invoiced my employer. That's it.
Good for all you on whatever schemes you are on if you have a receipt but I would interested to see what the value on the receipt is for as you didn't pay anything therefore how can there be any value on it and how do they then invoice the company and receipt them for the payment. I think it would very strange for a company to be issuing 2 receipts for payment for the one item.
As for you bit about the owner's name on it. The owner is the employer not you when you start the scheme.0 -
Hi,
Out of ineterest I've just bought a bike on Cycle Scheme that was in the sale.
Felt F55 from Hargroves Cycles reduced form £1500 to £1000 as it was a 2008 model. I had a chat with the guys in the shop and they told me that they could not take CS vouchers on sale bikes bescause of the 10% admin fee that CS charges.
I offered to cover the 10% fee and they were quite happy with this. Meant I still got a £1500 bike for £1100 (plus the tax savings!) and with it being a 2008 spec bike still made it the best value I could find anywhere.
Hope that helps...0 -
Cheers Stan looks like I won't be able to haggle for a 2009 model though.0
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Stan_Dingup wrote:Hi,
Out of ineterest I've just bought a bike on Cycle Scheme that was in the sale.
Felt F55 from Hargroves Cycles reduced form £1500 to £1000 as it was a 2008 model. I had a chat with the guys in the shop and they told me that they could not take CS vouchers on sale bikes bescause of the 10% admin fee that CS charges.
I offered to cover the 10% fee and they were quite happy with this. Meant I still got a £1500 bike for £1100 (plus the tax savings!) and with it being a 2008 spec bike still made it the best value I could find anywhere.
Hope that helps...
Commonsense approach - everyone wins - but some shops will try to make you pay the £1500 - and then blame cyclescheme.0 -
doyler78 wrote:I can only talk about my scheme however I don't have a receipt with my name and why should I as I didn't actually pay for anything? I went with a collection letter which I signed to say that I received the bike and the bike shop kept that and invoiced my employer. That's it.
Good for all you on whatever schemes you are on if you have a receipt but I would interested to see what the value on the receipt is for as you didn't pay anything therefore how can there be any value on it and how do they then invoice the company and receipt them for the payment. I think it would very strange for a company to be issuing 2 receipts for payment for the one item.
As for you bit about the owner's name on it. The owner is the employer not you when you start the scheme.
All these schemes are a little confusing but I believe I should have a receipt with my name on it as I've entered into a hire purchase agreement (albeit with my employer). With the Ride2Work scheme my employer agrees to cover the cost of the voucher, which is then repaid over an 18 month period. The same would be the case if I went into Comet and purchased electrical goods using their finance facilities. I don't think it is an issue that I haven't paid for anything as I will do over the term of the agreement.
For info I have my name on the receipt as the Evans voucher works just like a gift token. Sadly the scheme does not really help the LBS but from what I'm reading I'm beginning to think the Ride2Work scheme is the best one.0 -
Escargot, under the HMRC rules you have explicitly entered into a hire agreement, it cannot be a hire purchase agreement as this would not be eligible for the tax concession. Your employer buys the bike and hires the bike to you and may, at their discretion, choose to sell it to you at the end of the hire period, but this cannot be agreed at the outset as this would make it a hire purchase agreement which would fall outside of the scheme. The DTI web site is quite explicit on this point. You are buying nothing, and own nothing, unless and until your employer chooses to sell the bike to you, which is their property, at the end of the hire period.0
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alfablue wrote:Escargot, under the HMRC rules you have explicitly entered into a hire agreement, it cannot be a hire purchase agreement as this would not be eligible for the tax concession. Your employer buys the bike and hires the bike to you and may, at their discretion, choose to sell it to you at the end of the hire period, but this cannot be agreed at the outset as this would make it a hire purchase agreement which would fall outside of the scheme. The DTI web site is quite explicit on this point. You are buying nothing, and own nothing, unless and until your employer chooses to sell the bike to you, which is their property, at the end of the hire period.
You are probably quite right (I've not looked into it in that much detail) but for all intents and purposes it's set up like that so that you don't have to pay tax/ni etc. This is outlined in my agreement too but I believe this is just a technicality so that the scheme works legally.
Ultimately you don't really own anything under a traditional hire purchase agreement either, hence why you do an HPI check when you buy a car but we all take it for granted that we 'own' the vehicle as our names are down as the registed keeper.0
