What's in a frame?

markmax

Hi there. I've been trying to find out some buying advice for a new cyclist (me!) interested in road bikes for fitness and long rides, some at competition level eventually. The advice I seem to get is that the frame is very important so to get the correct sizing.

What is there to look for when considering correct sizing and positioning?

I'm 5'5" female with a 29" leg so am slightly longer in the body. I have a very small frame.

Does your LBS measure you up and tell you your frame size and then you can look at a choice of bikes from there? If I really like a bike that's not exactly the best frame size, I assume I can adjust seat post and handlebars but is this too much of a compromise?

Sorry if the questions sound dumb. I don't want to go into a LBS looking a complete numpty not knowing what to expect

Monty Dog

Firstly, if you are of regular proportion, then it is likely that you can be accommodated on a stock frame but vary reach using a different length handlebar stem, for example. The most important dimension is 'reach' i.e. saddle to handlebar, typically defined by the length of the frame toptube. Different manufacturers do very in terms of their proportions from seat tube length, top tube length and frame angles, so you'll find that some are more suited to your morphology and riding style than others. A good LBS will either sit you on a static bike or sizing jig, adjust it to your optimum position and then advise you from there. Others may just sit you on a range of bikes and you take it for a spin. One problem is that many shops don't stock smaller sizes, so can't offer you a test ride and IME I've seen shops sell too-big bikes for smaller riders, because that was what was available, not what they needed. For someone new to the game, I'd advise the former - using a jig and software to determine your optimum size and then help you make a decision based on that data. With your proportions I'd look at a women's specific frame, which generally have slightly shorter reach - many men's frames in small sizes have disproportionally long reach. Good shops will offset the cost of the bike fitting against the price of a bike or frame.

markmax

Thank you for that information Monty Dog. I was wondering how they do it and I'd rather have a jig to measure me. If I took all these bikes for a spin, I wouldn't know what to look for and it may seem comfortable at the time, but then, we are only talking about a short spin so long term, it could turn out very uncomfortable.

I agree with the problem over what the LBS would want to sell you. They may have stock to shift; may not order in a bike in your frame size in case you don't end up buying; etc, and I would also want to eventually buy off the internet to get more bike for my money, unless the LBS are prepared to match that. I don't want to "use" LBS but that's probably what I will end up doing. Maybe I should post as to where to buy, ie: LBS or internet. I would think there was better after sales service with LBS.

Being that I have a slightly longer body, does this mean my reach would be better suited to a man's small frame? I do like the idea of WSD though and I'm hardly a large frame - in fact, quite the opposite. My arms reach half way down my thighs - where my fingertips end anyway. Not sure if that helps - I have no idea if I have long or short arms for my proportion. Probably a silly question, but with the reach, are your arms to be slightly bent at the elbow rather than locked? Do they check the reach with you at the lowest part of the handlebar drop? I presume that is the longest part of the reach, if that makes sense.

Thanks again for the advice.

giant_man

Only a bike fitter would give you the answers to your questions. Depending on whereabouts you are there are some good bike shops who know what they're doing with bike fitting. There again, there are some bad ones who won't do it thoroughly.

As you say, you could buy off the internet but it's a bit of a lottery that the bike you choose will actually fit you, which is so important.

Best thing I would do in your shoes is to have a look around, identify which model(s) of bikes you are interested in, then sought out some dealers in your area and go see them.

As you right say if you don't know which models are 08 and which are 09 they are going to sell you old stock, so arm yourself with some info before going to see them.

Specialised and Trek do woman specific bikes which you may or may not like, a test ride is always advantageous of course.

markmax

Thanks Giantmancp. I am in the west country - can get to counties like Bristol, Somerset and Gloucestershire quite easily.

I since emailed some bike shops to see if they do fitting with a jig and have been recommended Argos Racing Cycles in Bristol. This lady who emailed me is from Terry Cycles in Bristol and she says that she is exactly the same height and inside leg as me and she rides a 51 cm frame. Do you think I can go by this? She has recommended the Specialized Dolce, the women's specific of the Specialized Allez so I guess that's one to try out.

Haven't heard from any other bike shops yet..... Wanted to check out if they have a jig and what stock they have out of Giant, Trek, Specialized and Lemond but Lemond are difficult to get hold of it seems. Was then going to go to all of them over the weekend but I feel my choice seems to be already limited - everything I mentioned to them has sold out apart from the Specialized - what does that say about the latter?! Nothing I suppose but when you don't know what you are looking for, I could be easily led by these sales people, which is why I want to start off with exactly the right frame first and foremost as that is what people on the forums are recommending.

Thanks again for the responses.

giant_man

I have heard of Argos in Bristol but don't know much about them sorry.

I can see what you're saying about the comparison in size with that other lady but imo I would wait and get yourself measured properly. Spesh do the Dolce and the Ruby btw.

I have heard so many times of buying blindly with a size of a particular bike, particularly on this forum, only for the original poster to come back on here and complain that the bike is too large or too small.

Cycling is all about fitness and having fun doing it of course. But if the bike you're riding is not the right size you're going to have not such a good experience.

Availability of course is an issue but I'm sure you can find the bike you ultimately want. When you do go for your fitting make sure you come away with your measurements so that you can approach anyone else with your sizes. And don't let yourself feel pressurised into buying something you yourself don't feel happy with. Some dealers can be pushy, don't let them be!

star_rover

The Mud Dock in Bristol do a bike fitting service which is refundable against the cost of a bike.
There's also a Specialized concept store in Bristol - I'm sure they'll do a proper fitting as well as having a large selection of Spesh models and sizes.

markmax

Thanks to both of you. I'm worried about pushy sales people! The Mud Dock sounds a great idea for fitting, even if I ultimately pay for it and buy elsewhere. Has to be worth the investment.

giant_man

markmax I've replied to your other thread btw. Hope it helps you.

alfablue

markmax wrote:

Thanks to both of you. I'm worried about pushy sales people! The Mud Dock sounds a great idea for fitting, even if I ultimately pay for it and buy elsewhere. Has to be worth the investment.

As for sales and service, I won't use them again. They misquoted me a price for some work and components, then after I delivered the bike 20 miles to have it done they called to say they had to up the price £50! I said no, the quote was binding and I had already spent a lot of time to get it there. The manager had a terrible slanging match with his staff while I was on the phone, and told me he would sack them if I didn't pay up!!! Most off putting! I felt very sorry for the staff. They did fit it for the quoted price in the end, but they did it wrong and I had to return again (with the fitting instructions!) to get it put right!

Last time I use them!

markmax

Hi Alphablue. Thanks very much for making me aware of that. They only have the Tred 1.2 WSD in stock which I can buy cheaper on the net than they quoted me. It's £35 for fitting so well worth the money to get that done properly.

Don't suppose you know a good bike shop in the Bristol/Bath area with a large stock of entry level road bikes do you? I have ones in mind to try but would look at others. A lot of places are out of stock - seems this cycling scheme is rather popular!

alfablue

Head and shoulders above the rest is John's Bikes in Walcot Street, Bath. They are happy to customise your bike to suit your needs, encourage test rides, tell you "if you are not happy after a few days bring it back and we will exchange it", and always deal on price and/or accessories. They don't use anything but their experience for bike fitting, but they are very keen that you leave with the correct fit.

Just for example, I bought a cannondale mtb from them, the seatpost wasn't right but they ordered a preferred one in - unfortunately I crashed and bent the original post when it came to swap over - no problem, no charge! - they're good like that

My ex g/f (not my ex then) bought a Kona mtb, liked the frame and spec but didn't want the discs, they bought them off her and fitted v brakes for a hefty saving, with a gentle haggle the bike was suddenly £150 less! Changed the seat and stem to suit her at no cost too.

They have a fair range but depending on size/model may have to get one in. Bike shops tend not to hold very large stocks in all sizes at the moment. They can usually get what you want to look at in 2 or 3 days.

Like any good shop they can get very busy so phone or visit in a quiet time, and maybe plan ahead if they need to order something in.

Bike, in Queens Avenue, Bristol is the best dealer I have used in Bristol. Very busy at w/e though (as is John's).

Total Fitness in Bath are the Specialized dealer - they are okay and mean well, but lack the warmth and helpfulness of John's. They do have good deals sometimes though.

guilliano

The one thing I would say with a first bike is spend the little extra it (may) cost to buy from a decent shop rather than "using" the shop then buying off the net to make a saving. The back up service and help you will get from a decent bike shop is worth many times more than the bike is. I'm not just saying that because I work in a bike shop.... I was a customer long before I was staff. Think about it this way....... if everyone "used the LBS for fitting then bought online where would the LBS be in a year's time when you have a major problem? They'd be gone with a bookie in their place.

By all means use a fitting service, but bear in mind that a jig won't tell you what 2 different bikes with similar geometry feel like, and how they feel with the handlebars adjusted by 3deg up or down to compensate for saddle height.

markmax

Guilliano - I know what you are saying. With expensive purchases, I've often found shops to match internet prices or at least, come close to them and I have paid a little extra to go with them, purely because of the after sales service.

Alfablue - sounds like you have the experience of shop that Guilliano is talking about. Thanks for the recommendations. They are very useful.