What is/isn't allowed in a road race?

Bhima
Bhima Posts: 2,145
edited June 2009 in Amateur race
I have a few TT things on my bike - would these be allowed in a road race?

- I have [THIS FORK] (bought super cheap for £35)
- Similarly, I may be getting one of those aero/carbon seatposts and some drop handlebars which are flat/aero (track style), simply because my mate can get them both stupidly cheap)
- I have a TT helmet which i've got used to wearing every time I go out training.
- My front brakes are installed behind the fork, TT-style.
- I also made a DIY disc wheel for the front wheel, (as I do a bit of bike-polo sometimes and it's necessary), using plastic covers & cable ties, but i'm guessing i'd have to dismantle these because of the aero advantage... :lol:

Are these things allowed? I have the original spare parts if I need to change anything back...

By the way, Is there a big list of rules somewhere, so I can stop asking these silly questions?
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Comments

  • shockedsoshocked
    shockedsoshocked Posts: 4,021
    Can you provide a picture of your bike?

    Sounds, erm, interesting! :D
    "A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"

    PTP Runner Up 2015
  • Bhima
    Bhima Posts: 2,145
    I've tried with my camera-phone before but it's stuck at one zoom/focus level so you can't see the bike at all, unless you're half a mile away! :lol: :?

    I'm getting a broadcast-quality high-definition video camera, with a big BIG lens soon though, so i'll post a pic when that arrives. :)
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Think it's all ok barring the aero helmet and the disc.

    In fact, the helmet may be ok if it conforms to the standards for crash protection, you'll just look a berk.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    Won't matter. If you still need that compact gearing to ride up hills - you'll be spat out the back of the pack in any race so fast that no one will ever see you again anyway! :P
  • Bhima
    Bhima Posts: 2,145
    Oh, that's right. Because nobody with a fast cadence has ever won anything, ever. Not even Lance Armstrong. :roll:

    :lol:


    Cheers guys. Not too bothered about what people think of my aero helmet. I think it looks cool! :)
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    Bhima wrote:
    Oh, that's right. Because nobody with a fast cadence has ever won anything, ever. Not even Lance Armstrong. :roll:

    :lol:

    It's nothing to do with a compact. You'll get spit of the back because you have to walk up hills - that's what I've heard from the hubmeister anyway.
    I like bikes...

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  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    redddraggon wrote:
    Bhima wrote:
    Oh, that's right. Because nobody with a fast cadence has ever won anything, ever. Not even Lance Armstrong. :roll:

    :lol:

    It's nothing to do with a compact. You'll get spit of the back because you have to walk up hills - that's what I've heard from the hubmeister anyway.


    ooooh Burn! :twisted: :lol:


    By the way... You play bike polo on your race bike?
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • Bhima
    Bhima Posts: 2,145
    redddraggon wrote:
    It's nothing to do with a compact. You'll get spit of the back because you have to walk up hills - that's what I've heard from the hubmeister anyway.

    That was a one-off. :roll: Nothing to do with fitness either.

    I'll have you know I did winnats pass 5 times in one day last week. :D

    ...and, no, I use my other bike for bike polo, but I now only have 1 set of wheels.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    I'm sure some pro's have won races with a compact.

    Anyway I think you are taking it abit too far with all this DIY stuff, if you want a disc wheel and all that just buy one when you can afford it, just get better by doing more miles, put it this way you'll be miles faster than me as I'm having to quit cycling or cut it down so much I'll be crap.
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    Bhima wrote:
    I have a few TT things on my bike - would these be allowed in a road race?
    - I also made a DIY disc wheel for the front wheel, (as I do a bit of bike-polo sometimes and it's necessary) ...
    Are you sure disc wheels are allowed in bike-polo? I don’t think so. Next time you’ll be shown the red card.
    ShockedSoShocked wrote:
    Can you provide a picture of your bike? Sounds, erm, interesting! :D
    Yes indeed! There are probably differences in frame dimensions, but to me the most noticeable difference on a proper bike-polo bike is that the seat post extends backwards out from the crossbar.
    I’d like to see Bhima turn up for his TT with that!
  • Bhima
    Bhima Posts: 2,145
    willhub wrote:
    Anyway I think you are taking it abit too far with all this DIY stuff, if you want a disc wheel and all that just buy one when you can afford it, just get better by doing more miles, put it this way you'll be miles faster than me as I'm having to quit cycling or cut it down so much I'll be crap.

    I'm not. It was just a bit of fun initially. Disc wheels cost a ton and it was not originally done for the aero advantage - it was just an interesting side-effect which i'm considering keeping - in bike-polo you need to protect your wheels otherwise you'll destroy them in 5 minutes!

    Knedlicky - Red card? Have you ever seen bike polo? :?
  • Slow1972
    Slow1972 Posts: 362
    The horrible thing is that I'm proably going to end up in a Cat 3/4 race and getting beaten by a bloke wearing an aero helmet with heavy breathing, spinning like a nutter and riding a bike with a home made disc wheel on and a tape recorder strapped to the frame so he can keep his cadence up....

    no doubt it'll be in the sprint when he unleashes his easy 220 rpm / 40 mph for 10 seconds finish...

    please please please post up where and when you are intending to race so I know in advance to look out for you!

    and I can't agree that an aero helmet will look "cool" in a road race... you don't think socks with sandals is cool as well do you????

    and getting up Winnats isnt the point, its how fast you get up it or any other climb compared to everyone else racing that matters
  • Eddy S
    Eddy S Posts: 1,013
    Bhima wrote:
    By the way, Is there a big list of rules somewhere, so I can stop asking these silly questions?

    BIG list of rules c/o British Cycling

    BTW, neither disc wheels nor aero helmets allowed in road racing - read the "Dress" and "UCI Equipment Regulations" sections.
    I’m a sprinter – I warmed up yesterday.
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    Bhima wrote:
    [Knedlicky - Red card? Have you ever seen bike polo? :?
    Yes, I have, in Germany. Also seen there, Cycle Ball where you ‘kick’ the ball with your front wheel. And in neither game did the bikes have disc wheels, because they’re just not allowed there. I’m also not sure whether disc wheels are allowed by Bike-Polo European Cup rules either, I think not.

    Not sure why this rule exists,
    ... perhaps to ensure that no one is riding around with too few spokes – by the rules of the associations in several lands, wheels must have at least 32 spokes.
    ... or maybe because the ball bounces off disc wheels differently - how a ball bounces is important in some games.
    (There is a rule about how a ball should bounce on a basketball court, so if a court is being built to international or NBA standards, this bounce rule influences how and of what the court surface is constructed.)

    Having said all that, I have to admit the Bike Polo (and Cycle Ball) matches I’ve seen were indoors, and the outdoor ‘Urban’ Bike Polo, which seems to becoming popular, and maybe what you play, may have different rules.

    Anyway, there’s an advantage to playing without disc wheels – when the ball gets jammed in your spokes, you can just ride it into the goal! :wink:

    (Probably not allowed, though. :( )
  • Bhima
    Bhima Posts: 2,145
    Yeah, we play outdoor. There's no strict regulations when we play - we don't play professionally or anything. :? A bit like the time-trials and alley-cat races that get put on round the city - no UCI regulations or anything! :lol:

    EVERYONE I know who plays has a disc on the front, and some on the back.

    It's just a bit of fun though, nobody takes it that seriously!

    Some pics of a recent tournament in manchester:

    polo6.jpg

    polo4.jpg

    I also made a 1hr film the other week at the annual Fixed-Gear convention in MCR - loads of footage of polo at that, which I may put on youtube soon.
  • shockedsoshocked
    shockedsoshocked Posts: 4,021
    Bhima wrote:
    Oh, that's right. Because nobody with a fast cadence has ever won anything, ever. Not even Lance Armstrong. :roll:

    Fast cadence isn't a bad thing, but don't restrict yourself in races and training by sticking solely to that. There's a lad from my area who's a pro, who trains and races on a compact. Sure he can spin the small gears really nice, but he hasn't the strength for instance to chase down breaks and close gaps when the hammer really goes down.

    And Lance Armstrongs cadence wasn't particularly impressive. You could say the same for The Jan, "No one with a slow cadence ever wins anything" :wink:
    "A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"

    PTP Runner Up 2015
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    Bhima wrote:
    Oh, that's right. Because nobody with a fast cadence has ever won anything, ever. Not even Lance Armstrong. :roll:

    During flat time trials Lance maintains a cadence of 100-115 RPM. He is using a lower gear than most other cyclists, but is pedaling faster than them.

    Lance's climbing cadence is differnt however around 80-85 RPM, but up to 100 RPM when attacking on a long solo breakaway when the gradient lessens during a climbing attack.

    He has been know to go up to 120 RPM at times, but nowhere near your claimed average of 150 RPM.


    Hopefully this will put things into perspective for you and you'll realize that trying to spin 150 RPM uphill with a triple on the front maybe isn't the best way to go about things.
  • Bhima
    Bhima Posts: 2,145
    Pokerface wrote:
    He has been know to go up to 120 RPM at times, but nowhere near your claimed average of 150 RPM.
    I've never claimed to have an average of 150 - apart from 1 timt trial I did. See the "Too High Cadence?" thread:
    Bhima wrote:
    What's your average? I do 170 sometimes but my average is way down at about 120.
    ShockedSoShocked wrote:
    Fast cadence isn't a bad thing, but don't restrict yourself in races and training by sticking solely to that.
    I don't! Again, see the "Too High Cadence?" thread:
    Bhima wrote:
    When at high-intensity, I tend to swap between high cadences and low cadences a bit. So, when I get out of breath, loweing the cadence will put more emphasis on muscle use while I get my breath back. Similarly, when the muscles are aching, spinning really fast will clear the lactic acid amazingly fast and allow them a bit of recovery. So, if you want to be efficient, you should try and work out a good rhythm to this - to work out how you can best prolong your energy by recovering different parts of your engine at the right rate.
    :wink:
  • Bhima
    Bhima Posts: 2,145
    Pokerface wrote:
    Hopefully this will put things into perspective for you and you'll realize that trying to spin 150 RPM uphill with a triple on the front maybe isn't the best way to go about things.

    Yes - I do understand that no pros use my spinning technique - but it's something which works for me. :) I've got my best times up particular short climbs (short = below 5 minutes) while using this technique in combination with out-of-the-saddle technique. I also find it gives me better acceleration when sprinting.

    I always thought that the pros didn't do this because they didn't have low enough gears... :? I did see someone once use the 150 RPM-ish technique once during the Tour de France but it was on the side of the road at the end of the race, probably while cooling off and recovering...
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    Bhima you are just so full of BS that you keep digging yourself into these holes.
    I like bikes...

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  • Bhima
    Bhima Posts: 2,145
    What have I said specifically that's BS?

    Actually, this thread wasn't too bad until you posted that...? :?
  • eh
    eh Posts: 4,854
    Bhima have you actually done much riding? because any race with a cross wind is going to be horrific with a front disc (which is a major factor in why they were banned). Even with deep sections I've known top riders to have problems on windy circuits.

    If you want to race just get a stock road bike, bin all the excess bits (pump, lights, saddle bag) and go race, it ain't that hard.


    NB: that LA story about a super high cadence being his special way is a myth, loads of riders throughout the years have ridden at high cadences. LA's special way was larger quantities of drugs (allegedly :roll: ) oh and losing some weight as he was a bit fat early on in his career.
  • Chaz.Harding
    Chaz.Harding Posts: 3,144
    Sounds like you all mis-understood each other a bit (from an outside PoV)

    eh, redddraggon, I think what Bhima was saying, was that his higher-than-average cadence works for him. LA uses his own, tour winning formula, much to his success, because it works for him.

    As Ullrich used to grind out the big gears, because it worked for him. See the pattern?

    It might not be the most efficent way of cycling on paper, but it works for him, thats what he was saying.

    I like to keep my cadence low - 50-70rpms. Efficient? Apperently not! But so f*ck! It doesn't matter, because it's how I like to ride, and it works. Yes, I've tried spinning it up, but I'm a muscle-y big strong guy, so it's not comfortable.

    I also think it was a bit of a joke when he asked about racing with a front disc. If it wasn't, then he soon found it is illeagle by the UCI. And his bike polo probably wasn't Olympic standard (and yes, I do know it's not an Olympic sport before I get lynched), it was just for fun. If one person was doing to their advantage, of course everyone else is going to do it too. You don't see any pro-riders still riding sturmy archer 3 speeds, because derailluers brought an advantage, so they all copied whoever first raced with them.

    Phew! Glad thats over! And no, it's not a dig at anyone before I get angry replies!!!
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  • Bhima
    Bhima Posts: 2,145
    You're spot on. :)
  • CyclingBantam
    CyclingBantam Posts: 1,299
    redddraggon wrote:
    Bhima you are just so full of BS that you keep digging yourself into these holes.

    Please don't stop him. This is the best thread of the week...

    150rpm average. Classic. Just the thought of him bouncing round the road with a TT lid on and a dustbin lid strapped to the front wheel. :lol:
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    BenBlyth wrote:
    redddraggon wrote:
    Bhima you are just so full of BS that you keep digging yourself into these holes.

    Please don't stop him. This is the best thread of the week...

    150rpm average. Classic. Just the thought of him bouncing round the road with a TT lid on and a dustbin lid strapped to the front wheel. :lol:

    Unfortunately (for us and our daily chuckle), we seem to have lost Bhima. However, the newbie riders that come to the forum for advice will now be much safer without his tales of superhuman RPM. Measured with a metronome.
  • Aggieboy
    Aggieboy Posts: 3,996
    I really am missing Bhima and Willhub. :cry:

    Willhub are you OK or have all the pills and potions taken their toll?
    "There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world, t'would be a pity to damage yours."
  • Calvia
    Calvia Posts: 17
    One of my favourite Bhima storys was when he was recovering from his crash...

    He said he was eating 8kg of fruit per day to aid recovery!!

    Is that even possible?
    One thing is for sure... it would have kept him regular :roll: !!!!
  • hamstrich
    hamstrich Posts: 112
    BenBlyth wrote:
    150rpm average. Classic.

    Think I need to get my metronome out to help me picture this :lol:
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Bhima also takes 14lb of bananas on his rides, apparently. I'd love it if he came down to our club, home made disc wheel, TT hat and all his bananas, I'd die a happy man.

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