Would you want advice on a ride if you hadn't asked for it?
ColinJ
Posts: 2,218
I was out on a tough hilly ride yesterday (the Brian Robinson Challenge), and saw several riders who were struggling on hills, but who had saddle positions that were what I'd say were way too low (they were pedalling with their knees sticking well out).
I find climbing with a low saddle very difficult. I felt tempted to say something to them, but wondered whether they might have told me to mind my own business, so that's what I did.
Was I wrong? Should I have offered the advice? Would you want a complete stranger to politely point out something like that to you?
I find climbing with a low saddle very difficult. I felt tempted to say something to them, but wondered whether they might have told me to mind my own business, so that's what I did.
Was I wrong? Should I have offered the advice? Would you want a complete stranger to politely point out something like that to you?
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Comments
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Maybe by asking why they are doing something and then working a "well I tried that, but this worked a lot better" type of line. You could also lie and tell 'em that your semi-pro mate who rides in France taught you the error of your ways and you haven't looked back since.
If you are polite it can only come over with good intentions.0 -
I'd do what you did and keep quiet. Some people take offence very easily. I'm happy to dispense advice if it's asked for though.0
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ColinJ, you should have coasted past them, but as you drew alongside said something like "Yeah, I used to climb like a hippo in a tutu when my saddle was too low as well" and left them to it
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Thing is, anyone with any sense would see how the "proper" looking riders were set up and copy them.
As for offering advice to random people, you'd probably get more negative responses than positive I reckon.Pictures are better than words because some words are big and hard to understand.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34335188@N07/3336802663/0 -
Robs right. I just keep schtum.0
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Hmm, well given that I was also climbing like a hippo in a tutu and I had my saddle high, that might not have gone down too well!NapoleonD wrote:ColinJ, you should have coasted past them, but as you drew alongside said something like "Yeah, I used to climb like a hippo in a tutu when my saddle was too low as well" and left them to it
PS Have you got a hotline to Eurosport - DavidH keeps giving you a mention! That reminds me - must pop over to your blog and leave another comment. I like your recent entry. I was shocked by that picture of Bradley Wiggins too! :shock:0 -
Haha, You are climbing a damn sight better than me!
Three times in three different races Eurosport, they must have slow news moments...
Cheers for the good comments on the blog. Bradley looks horrendous! (Bet he has his saddle at the right height though...)0 -
Personally I would have had a chat and told them, they can always tell you to fxxk off and mind your own business
As long as you do not take offence
I have seen some riders ride with knees out like you mention, but with saddle height correct, guess they will find out later, especially when they get cartlidge problems.
As it happens, on our fast ride yesterday we had some one new come with us, a uni student as it happened. He looked fit and could see he cycles due to muscle definition in calves. It was about 8 dgrees and I wore summer top with arm warmers and long sleeve top planning to take it off when warmer, and knee warmers. It was quite cold as it was 9am.
He just had shorts on and some sort of sports shirt, not cycling as his back was exposed, no base layer either.
I just pointed out he may need something warmer and he just laughed and said he would be ok.
As we rode off you could see the huge goose pimples he had all over but said he was not cold
About 25 miles in I ate a banana and I asked if he wanted one. I got a response that he did not need any food. I told him we were going to do abput 70 miles and he said it was ok.
I advised he would need food as it would get fast after about 40 miles but he still said he was ok so I left him to it.
The usual race to drop each other started and I waited for mate who dropped a bottle.
As usual when they saw I was behind, all of a sudden a fast group of 4 organised a little chain gang and the group shattered I had to do a sort of TT to try to catch them and passed this guy and he looked dead on his bike so guess he bonked
Think I will do same as Colin if he joins us again, but I think he may give it a miss
The funny thing is, out of all the sports I have done, cycling seems to have the largest number of beginners who know it all.
I always try to learn from others and ask advice and even try to do new things to see if it may improve on something I thought was right. Your never too good to learn unless your the world champion 0 -
What saddle height to leg length do you run? I'm about 1cm less than the normal "inseam x .883 " method. Just feels right but maybe I should go a bit higher.0
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To be honest, I only measured it the other day to copy it from one bike to another.juggler wrote:What saddle height to leg length do you run? I'm about 1cm less than the normal "inseam x .883 " method. Just feels right but maybe I should go a bit higher.
When I started cycling I did what a lot of people do which is to have the saddle low because I felt too high off the ground when it was higher. Once I realised that I wasn't supposed to be able to easily reach the ground while seated and that it felt easier to climb with a higher saddle position, I started regularly raising it by about a cm at a time. I gave myself a week or so to get used to each new saddle height and I kept doing it until I no longer felt comfortable (over-straightening my legs at the bottom of the pedal stroke, and hips starting to rock as I pedalled). I then lowered it by a cm or so and stuck with that.
I've just measured my position again - I have a height from bottom bracket to top of saddle of 80 cm. That's in line with the seat tube. The highest point of the saddle is probably 0.5 cm higher. My inseam is about 83.5 cm and that gives me a ratio of about 0.95 which is about 8% more than that number you are quoting! Now you've got me wondering whether I've gone too far...
My left leg is nearly 2 cm shorter than my right leg so it is hard for me to arrive at a saddle perfect height. It might be perfect for my right leg, but too high for my left. I've been getting cramp in my left foot and I wonder whether it is from pedalling too toe-down to reach down the extra distance. When I used Look pedals I shimmed the left cleat by nearly a cm to reduce the discrepancy and that seemed to help. It's not so easy to do with the SPDs I'm using now - I would have to get the sole of the shoe built up or the cleat would no longer be recessed.0 -
ColinJ wrote:
To be honest, I only measured it the other day to copy it from one bike to another.juggler wrote:What saddle height to leg length do you run? I'm about 1cm less than the normal "inseam x .883 " method. Just feels right but maybe I should go a bit higher.
When I started cycling I did what a lot of people do which is to have the saddle low because I felt too high off the ground when it was higher. Once I realised that I wasn't supposed to be able to easily reach the ground while seated and that it felt easier to climb with a higher saddle position, I started regularly raising it by about a cm at a time. I gave myself a week or so to get used to each new saddle height and I kept doing it until I no longer felt comfortable (over-straightening my legs at the bottom of the pedal stroke, and hips starting to rock as I pedalled). I then lowered it by a cm or so and stuck with that.
I've just measured my position again - I have a height from bottom bracket to top of saddle of 80 cm. That's in line with the seat tube. The highest point of the saddle is probably 0.5 cm higher. My inseam is about 83.5 cm and that gives me a ratio of about 0.95 which is about 8% more than that number you are quoting! Now you've got me wondering whether I've gone too far...
My left leg is nearly 2 cm shorter than my right leg so it is hard for me to arrive at a saddle perfect height. It might be perfect for my right leg, but too high for my left. I've been getting cramp in my left foot and I wonder whether it is from pedalling too toe-down to reach down the extra distance. When I used Look pedals I shimmed the left cleat by nearly a cm to reduce the discrepancy and that seemed to help. It's not so easy to do with the SPDs I'm using now - I would have to get the sole of the shoe built up or the cleat would no longer be recessed.
I've been having a bit of knee pain recently (although only in one knee) and suspect my saddle may be too low. I'm fiddling around with it trying to find the best fit for me, but would be interested in any standard formula/advice; the standard about the knee being slightly bent when the pedal is at its lowest still seems to leave too much room for manouevre. I've come across the formula that multiplies the inside leg measurement (foot to crotch?) by X - but have never explored it. I think it gives BB to saddle height, but is that measured along the length of hte down tube, or vertically (i.e. to a line that effectively extendds forwards from the saddle)?0 -
Formula wise know of 2 methods... both depend on knowing you inseam measurment.
Method 1 - inseam x 0.883 gives BB to top of saddle measure.
Method 2 - inseam x 1.09 gives pedal spindle to top of saddle measure.
They will give slightly different saddle heights, so i think this is a ball park way of getting the saddle somewhere near the correct height. After that you may need to adjust a little.
All varies with the individual. A friend of mine runs a very high saddle, with the leg fully extended at the bottom of the pedal stroke, for me the leg is noticeably bent at the bottom of the pedal stroke....0 -
Thanks juggler, will get the tape out!juggler wrote:Formula wise know of 2 methods... both depend on knowing you inseam measurment.
Method 1 - inseam x 0.883 gives BB to top of saddle measure.
Method 2 - inseam x 1.09 gives pedal spindle to top of saddle measure.
They will give slightly different saddle heights, so i think this is a ball park way of getting the saddle somewhere near the correct height. After that you may need to adjust a little.
All varies with the individual. A friend of mine runs a very high saddle, with the leg fully extended at the bottom of the pedal stroke, for me the leg is noticeably bent at the bottom of the pedal stroke....0 -
topcattim wrote:
Thanks juggler, will get the tape out!juggler wrote:Formula wise know of 2 methods... both depend on knowing you inseam measurment.
Method 1 - inseam x 0.883 gives BB to top of saddle measure.
Method 2 - inseam x 1.09 gives pedal spindle to top of saddle measure.
They will give slightly different saddle heights, so i think this is a ball park way of getting the saddle somewhere near the correct height. After that you may need to adjust a little.
All varies with the individual. A friend of mine runs a very high saddle, with the leg fully extended at the bottom of the pedal stroke, for me the leg is noticeably bent at the bottom of the pedal stroke....
Have now measured and it appears the saddle was about 2.5cm too low - I'm hoping that the knee pain will now magically disappear (well, the physio appointment on Friday should help too...)0 -
I am obviously still stuck in MTB mode..... I stick my saddle up to roughly where I think it should be, get on the bike, clip in and if I can reach both pedals without rocking and without a big bend in the knee then I ride with it at that height. If I feel it's too low or high after a ride I raise or lower it a bit. I put no faith in formulas.... I go by what feels right0
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That's pretty much what I do.guilliano wrote:I am obviously still stuck in MTB mode..... I stick my saddle up to roughly where I think it should be, get on the bike, clip in and if I can reach both pedals without rocking and without a big bend in the knee then I ride with it at that height. If I feel it's too low or high after a ride I raise or lower it a bit. I put no faith in formulas.... I go by what feels right0 -
I had a guy try to lecture me on why I should wear a helmet on a ride once. Could have strangled the guy. Followed me for miles he did. :shock:0
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I find unasked for advice to people you don't really know meets with resentment. A comment like "How do you find you get on with your saddle position?" will either get a reply of "Fine, it suits me" which should be taken as ending any further comment, or if the rider is genuinely unsure of how to position himself on the bike he may ask for your advice.
If someone started to lecture me about not wearing a helmet my answer would be short, sharp and to the point.0 -
Passed an old man on a MTB last week going 5mph at 40RPM who must have had 15PSI in his back wheel. Offered to pump it up for him and he told me to pi55 off! :shock: I asked him if he had sufficient kit to repair a puncture and I just got a look of confusion from him. :?0
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I encountered an old guy walking his mountain bike a couple of months back. I asked him if he was okay and he said yes.Bhima wrote:Passed an old man on a MTB last week going 5mph at 40RPM who must have had 15PSI in his back wheel. Offered to pump it up for him and he told me to pi55 off! :shock: I asked him if he had sufficient kit to repair a puncture and I just got a look of confusion from him. :?
Despite that, he seemed to have a problem because one of his tyres was flat.
I hesitated and then asked if he was sure he didn't need any help. He then told me that he'd had a puncture and had put a new tube in, but his pump had packed up so he couldn't get any air into it.
I whipped out my pump and inflated his tyre for him.
Turned out he was miles from home... :?:0 -
guilliano wrote:I am obviously still stuck in MTB mode..... I stick my saddle up to roughly where I think it should be, get on the bike, clip in and if I can reach both pedals without rocking and without a big bend in the knee then I ride with it at that height. If I feel it's too low or high after a ride I raise or lower it a bit. I put no faith in formulas.... I go by what feels right
Heel on pedal, leg just locked out for me on a road bike.
On a MTB I do the same then drop it a 'tad'.Higs0 -
I'm encountering increasing numbers of old-uns riding on the road on massive, shiny clean mtb's with chunky tyres. No sign of chain guards, sturmey archer gears or bicycle clips. Strange indeed.0
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Seen it all now. on my commute through town today I saw a young lady in office type garb with one stiletto on crouched next to an MTB struggling to prise out the heel of the other shoe which appeared to be wedged into a bear trap pedal. I didn't stop as:
1) I didn't want to look like a seedy old man, and
2) I suspect that at that precise moment she wouldn't have appreciated my advice as to the merits of SPDs.0 -
Was worried about a girl out with us on Sunday, 1 bottle with her, in her back pocket, for a 60 mile ride on a warm enough day, so having experienced enough of the unpleasantness of dehydration myself on long rides I was rather worried about this, but when I suggested she could fill up at our tea and cake stop (with something other than coke) she told me I was "Such a Dad"!
Next time I'll keep my mouth shut and let her struggle without any advice whatsoever, she obviously knows all she needs to about the sport :?
Just to make a point, despite being a mere 15 years older I blew her and everyone else off on the run back to the start point of the run. Twice, and by a good margin both times. A dad I might be but I'm properly fueled and watered I''m not slow....
'Twas Mulga Bill, from Eaglehawk, that caught the cycling craze....0 -
rally200 wrote:Seen it all now. on my commute through town today I saw a young lady in office type garb with one stiletto on crouched next to an MTB struggling to prise out the heel of the other shoe which appeared to be wedged into a bear trap pedal. I didn't stop as:
1) I didn't want to look like a seedy old man, and
2) I suspect that at that precise moment she wouldn't have appreciated my advice as to the merits of SPDs.
Seen stilletos on while riding a motorcycle in the 5-600cc category. What coming off would do to such pretty feet :shock:'Twas Mulga Bill, from Eaglehawk, that caught the cycling craze....0 -
chuckcork wrote:
Seen stilletos on while riding a motorcycle in the 5-600cc category. What coming off would do to such pretty feet :shock:
I reckon we're both getting old- thinking about safety instead of leering - reminds me of the bit in All Quiet On The Western Front when seeing a poster of showgirls one of the soldiers can only say how she couldn't march far in those boots.0 -
rally200 wrote:chuckcork wrote:
Seen stilletos on while riding a motorcycle in the 5-600cc category. What coming off would do to such pretty feet :shock:
I reckon we're both getting old- thinking about safety instead of leering - reminds me of the bit in All Quiet On The Western Front when seeing a poster of showgirls one of the soldiers can only say how she couldn't march far in those boots.
Your probably right. The girl with no water, attractive as she was I wasn't even thinking of leering (much) . I guess that happens when you're on the wrong side of 35, married, one child & another on the way, you start to think of women as being just good people to go out cycling with rather than sex objects...gad I'm getting old. 'Twas Mulga Bill, from Eaglehawk, that caught the cycling craze....0 -
Bhima wrote:ColinJ wrote:I encountered an old guy walking his mountain bike a couple of months back. I asked him if he was okay and he said yes.
Turned out he was miles from home... :?:
Strange! :?
There's something weird going on with these old-timers on MTBikes...!
Maybe not that strange actually...
Couple of weekends ago I passed an old guy pushing a road bike along a country road. I slowed and asked if he was ok. He said yes, so I said ok but for some reason I thought to ask if he was sure, was there anything I could help him with? At that he admitted that he had a flat but that he was ok, he was nearly home. I noted that he had a small saddle pack and I said ok and left him to it. I was riding a new route, relying on the 705 for nav so it was a few miles before it dawned on me where the hell he must have been heading home to as it was proper hants countryside with not many houses around. Maybe he was near home and knew the area better than me or maybe he was just reluctant to accept help, I don't know.
As for advice, I'd just leave it. For example why would anyone think they are properly qualified to afvise someone on whether or not they are incorrectly dressed? I was on a Winter Mountaineering course last year and there was a guy who'd done about 20 yrs in the Royal Marines. Despite near white out and freezing conditions, he never wore a hat. He'd spent that many winters in Norway such that what was cold even to me (who grew up Scotland!) and the instructors (who lived and worked in Scotland!) wasn't cold to him and none of us could tell him otherwise! So, just because the advice is correct as per your way of doing things, may not be right for others, so why offer it up in the first place - especially unsolicited.0
