Card fraud after bike shop purchase

sturmey

I recently use my debit card to purchase goods over the phone from GB Cycles.This is the ONLY occasion I have ever used this card for a telephone purchase.

I have just checked my bank statement showing two fraudulent transactions on todays date to the value of nearly £700. Obviously there is no link I can prove with GB Cycles but I advise caution to others.
I for one will not be making telephone payments again to any online retailer.

topcattim

This issue comes up every now and then, with different retailers. I suppose there is no particular reason why there should be any lower rate of fraud in bike shops than in any other walk of life, sadly. But I'm always interested in how we cyclists often decide that the fraud was committed in the online bike shop - have you any evidence that shows that it wasn't for example the restaurant where you last ate/the holiday you booked/the garage where you bought your fuel (apparently garages are particularly exposed to this type of fraud)? I'm not saying it was any of these necessarily, but with the amount of us on Bikeradar, and the amount of debit and credit card transactions, I guess that every now and then there will be fraud straight after use at an online bike shop, even if there is no actual link.

Of course, none of this makes the experience any better for you.
And, to balance what I've just said, since there have been so many similar posts in the past, I've tried recently to use paypal as much as possible in online transactions.

Anonymous

There have been a spate of credit card frauds recently after US peeps have ordered stuff from the UK.

Someone somewhere knows what they is doin...

Headhuunter

I heard that there was a similar issue with people ordering on Wiggle for a while. Not only this but I've heard of restaurants cloning cards under the counter when customers handed them over to pay bills so it's not exclusively down to using your card on the web or over the phone. When it's happened to me, the banks and credit card companies have always refunded the money anyway, pending an investigation of some sort.

LittleB0b

topcattim wrote:

garage where you bought your fuel (apparently garages are particularly exposed to this type of fraud)? I.

all the cases i have heard off - that have been traced back - have been to garages. High staff turnover, linked to low paid mundane jobs, makes vetting of staff less important than actually being able to employ someone to cover the shifts. THis makes it easy for gangs to infiltrate.

Stewie Griffin

Cash is king, I havent paid for petrol or in a restaurant with a card for years now. I always try to use the cash machines IN the bank. I should remove my details from Wiggle too, only because Im unlikely to order anything from them for a while as they are so effing expensive now.

Headhuunter

Stewie Griffin wrote:

Cash is king, I havent paid for petrol or in a restaurant with a card for years now. I always try to use the cash machines IN the bank. I should remove my details from Wiggle too, only because Im unlikely to order anything from them for a while as they are so effing expensive now.

Not really, if you pay by card there are all sorts of benefits. A lot of credit card companies offer free insurance for things yuo order over the net, so if they don't arrive you can claim. Some also offer some kind of guarantee for the item, even if the retailer doesn't and other credit cards offer cash back. I currently have an Amex card which pays 5% cashback on everything I buy with it, so everything I buy is 5% less than the price listed in the shop on the net. It all adds up! Also as I said above, I have been the victim of credit card fraud a couple of times and the company has always paid me back

Stewie Griffin

Headhuunter wrote:

Stewie Griffin wrote:

Cash is king, I havent paid for petrol or in a restaurant with a card for years now. I always try to use the cash machines IN the bank. I should remove my details from Wiggle too, only because Im unlikely to order anything from them for a while as they are so effing expensive now.

Not really, if you pay by card there are all sorts of benefits. A lot of credit card companies offer free insurance for things yuo order over the net, so if they don't arrive you can claim. Some also offer some kind of guarantee for the item, even if the retailer doesn't and other credit cards offer cash back. I currently have an Amex card which pays 5% cashback on everything I buy with it, so everything I buy is 5% less than the price listed in the shop on the net. It all adds up! Also as I said above, I have been the victim of credit card fraud a couple of times and the company has always paid me back

I realise that you cant use cash to buy stuff on t'internet , I do use a card myself. I just try to not use it when cash will do the job.

sturmey

Correct me if I' am wrong but is it not the case that if you buy something online and submit your card details online the retailer does not in fact get to see those card details in full?

If so,then this would seem to be a far more secure method of paying for something than ordering goods by telephone and having to pass all your card details there and then to the retailer and subsequently trust him/her to keep your card details secure. I am convinced in my case that this is how I have been compromised. I have never been a victim of card fraud in 25 years,until now.

Headhuunter

sturmey wrote:

Correct me if I' am wrong but is it not the case that if you buy something online and submit your card details online the retailer does not in fact get to see those card details in full?

If so,then this would seem to be a far more secure method of paying for something than ordering goods by telephone and having to pass all your card details there and then to the retailer and subsequently trust him/her to keep your card details secure. I am convinced in my case that this is how I have been compromised. I have never been a victim of card fraud in 25 years,until now.

Yes, especially with things like PayPal, I think that distances you even more from the retailer.

I pays as often as possible through credit card. I have an offset mortgage so the longer the money stays in my account, the less I pay in interest on my mortgage and a credit card helps me defer payments for as long as possible. Of course you have to be careful to remember to pay the credit card bill in full and on time to make sure you don't incur their enormous charges, but that just takes organisation.

Also if you keep applying for new credit cards you can keep getting all sorts of new introductory benefits, or you can just be a "zero percent whore", max out the card and keep the debt on the card til the zero percent offer runs out and keep that money in a high interest account or an offset mortgage

You can seriously play the system and male little bits of money here and there

don_don

If you use your debit card to withdraw cash from the 'hole in the wall' it may have been 'skimmed'.

The equipment that criminals are using to target ATMs is, apparently, increasingly sophisticated. I heard about one case recently where a completely fake 'front' was placed on an ATM that fooled even the Police for a while.

As far as I understand, they still rely on a micro camera somewhere on the device to record you entering your PIN number. An electronic gizmo in the device records the details on your card's magnetic strip, but they need both bits of info to make a successful cloned card.

I've now learned to input my PIN blind, while I hold my wallet immediately above my hand. Hopefully that will prevent anyone getting the number.

Incidentally, ATM 'skimming' devices are extremely valuable to the thieves. There will most likely be a team of undesirables discretely watching it, in order to 'intervene' if joe public discovers the kit. If you think you've found a dodgy ATM, just discretely go into the bank or shop and call the Plod!

FyPunK

Just out of interest, in your original post you mentioned TELEPHONE order, are by chance using a cordless phone? You will be amazed how many people with scanners listen in on telephone conversations.

cee

don_don wrote:

If you use your debit card to withdraw cash from the 'hole in the wall' it may have been 'skimmed'.

The equipment that criminals are using to target ATMs is, apparently, increasingly sophisticated. I heard about one case recently where a completely fake 'front' was placed on an ATM that fooled even the Police for a while.

As far as I understand, they still rely on a micro camera somewhere on the device to record you entering your PIN number. An electronic gizmo in the device records the details on your card's magnetic strip, but they need both bits of info to make a successful cloned card.

I've now learned to input my PIN blind, while I hold my wallet immediately above my hand. Hopefully that will prevent anyone getting the number.

Incidentally, ATM 'skimming' devices are extremely valuable to the thieves. There will most likely be a team of undesirables discretely watching it, in order to 'intervene' if joe public discovers the kit. If you think you've found a dodgy ATM, just discretely go into the bank or shop and call the Plod!

hmmm...not convinced by the whole card skimming thing...sure they seem to exist, but is their use as widespread as the media paints? Not sure....I have been checking every atm i use for a while now and have not been able to find one.

Pokerface

Interesting. I recently had my credit card cancelled and replaced by the credit card company after they told me they suspected that one of the retailers I used had their security compromised.

And GB Cycles was one of the places I had purchased from.

Not to slate them as they are a good shop and buy from them regularly - but perhaps they had some sort of breach and credit card details were stolen.

nwallace

Section 72 or what ever it is that gives the card company liability on purchases over £100 quid if the shop goes Titsup doesn't apply if you used a middleman like PAyPal then add in al lhe dodgy stories about ebay companies and you soon find out why I refuse to use them now.

I also had my debit card details nicked, the problem with them is they are so intrinsictly linked to your bank accoutn you have no choice but to change account.

topcattim

nwallace wrote:

Section 72 or what ever it is that gives the card company liability on purchases over £100 quid if the shop goes Titsup doesn't apply if you used a middleman like PAyPal then add in al lhe dodgy stories about ebay companies and you soon find out why I refuse to use them now.

I also had my debit card details nicked, the problem with them is they are so intrinsictly linked to your bank accoutn you have no choice but to change account.

That's interesting, I hadn't realised that the credit card liability thingy didn't apply if you use PayPal. Thanks for the info

speedy641

Pokerface, I had exactly the same call last week from my credit card people! ..and I bought from GB Cycles...hmmm



..always the danger of 2+2=5 of course....

..interestingly the credit card people wouldn't divulge which retailer they had concerns about

nicensleazy

I think the thing is, avoid giving humans your details. If you think about it, they must write the info down some where. After your purchase has gone through they are on to the next customer. Your details could be left at the counter or a scrap of paper......they don't give a stuff about your details.

nicensleazy

Has anyone brought this to their attention?

sturmey

Well that sounds like 3 of us who have used GB cycles and had our cards compromised.

What an extraordinary coincidence!

My arse...

don key

This thread has given me a great idea for cash machine pin number security. Are all the key pads the same size and layout?