My encounter, as a pedestrian, with a cyclist

roger_merriman · April 2009

in busy urban areas if your on foot,bike/car people pul out infront of you sometimes it's the only way to cross get into traffic if some one did that to me out in the downs i'd think some worse of them than i would deep in london. maybe DDD shouldn't of crossed but some places have very few gaps at all...

for crowd clearing being a tall bloke with long hair and beard helps apparently i can look scary at times....

DonDaddyD · April 2009

DDD you should have polled us

It wouldn't be accurate. I wouldn't be sure that people are just saying DDD you're in the wrong simply for the joy and fact that its me.

The guy was a prick, he saw people crossing the road (from the other side of the road) he should have slowed down and allowed the fully committed pedestrians to finish crossing. To know that people are crossing ahead of him and to continue to pedal along, possibly increasing his pace shows contempt on his part IMO.

Knowing what I would do as a cyclist, I feel comfortable saying that.

And to think... I was going to suggest drinks at the Mopeth... I'm joining Spen666 on the disgruntled pile..

DonDaddyD · April 2009

The Hundredth Idiot wrote:

A better car/cycle analogy might be that RLJers shouldn't ***** if the car they cut up uses its horn and makes a few choice comments out of the window.

No the best example would be, a guy is halfway through RLJing an approaching car can see him but continues at 30+mph (despite having the choice of slowing down) and promptly plows through the RLJer.

OR

A bunch of pedestrians are crossing the road the approaching car can see them but instead of slowing down he continues at his speed and goes right through the pedestrians.

robmanic1 · April 2009

DonDaddyD wrote:

It wouldn't be accurate. I wouldn't be sure that people are just saying DDD you're in the wrong simply for the joy and fact that its me.

T

Now come along DDD, I'm sure the opposite is true.

As I see it there are two sides to this. You've already admitted you made an error of judgement, he on the other hand, probably had some right to be a little miffed, that said he did neither of you any favours by reacting the way he did when perhaps a simple shake of the head and a "d*ck head" under his breath would have sufficed, you'd have done the same back to him and you both would have got on with your days. Life's far too short to get angry at everyone that causes you a nano-seconds delay, as the Honda advert used to say "aren't we all just trying to get somewhere".

Jeez, just RE-read my posts I sound like a god-damn HIPPY!

always_tyred · April 2009

I think I get it - DDD's point is that it would have been easier for the cyclist to cycle on past, without slowing or possibly even steering- even if it was a bit tight - but that they chose to make a point .

I think we all have experienced that particular type of driver who guns the engine to make their little point and induce you to scuttle across the road, when it would be easier for them to simply not press the accelerator as hard.

This tool just happened to by cycling.

(That's the best I can do for you DDD!)

Clever Pun · April 2009

I think in this case the rlj is unimportant to the incident as it's after the fact...

it's still wrong and he's still a tw@t mind

if it was me, I'd be annoyed that peds could have waited for 5 seconds on a clear road rather than making my life more difficult and having to make my way around/through them.

spen666 · April 2009

DonDaddyD wrote:

....... I'm joining Spen666 on the disgruntled pile..

how did you know that was me on my bike yesterday? :evil:

DonDaddyD · April 2009

Clever Pun wrote:

if it was me, I'd be annoyed that peds could have waited for 5 seconds on a clear road rather than making my life more difficult and having to make my way around/through them.

Don't get me wrong, I would too! With hindsight, I could have waited - it looked he was going slow enough for a bunch of us to make it across - but failing that the dude could have slowed down instead of riding into a bunch of pedestrians.

I think we all have experienced that particular type of driver who guns the engine to make their little point and induce you to scuttle across the road, when it would be easier for them to simply not press the accelerator as hard.

Exactly my point.

the_hundredth_idiot · April 2009

DonDaddyD wrote:

No the best example would be, a guy is halfway through RLJing an approaching car can see him but continues at 30+mph (despite having the choice of slowing down) and promptly plows through the RLJer.

OR

A bunch of pedestrians are crossing the road the approaching car can see them but instead of slowing down he continues at his speed and goes right through the pedestrians.

They're only good analogies if you're now claiming that the cyclist ploughed into you instead of swerving around you.

If so, I'm waiting to see the photos of DDD getting publicly intimate with a hybrid. You've been in the closet far too long, denying your hybrid love.

Sounds like you were in the wrong, but the cyclist was being a bit of a c0ck by making a big deal over it. Life's too short to shout at every ped that dances in the road in front of me - I have to save it for the serious cases.

jedster · April 2009

That bloke sounds like a right kn0b. Very bad karma to make a point by riding at someone and shouting abuse. What a sad sack.

That said DDD, I'm afraid you would have got a tut and a "more disappointed than angry" shake of the head from me as I took evasive action.

J

dilemna · April 2009

DonDaddyD wrote:

I wanna explain this one last time.

I didn't step out on him

He was on one side of the road. I was on the other.

Both lanes were clear apart from a cyclist going slowly. I and a few other people crossed. We crossed the first lane and then started to cross the second lane, with the cyclist on. This guy would have seen a number of people crossing the road infront of him.

We then met (with me about 3quarters across the lane) and then he shouted at me to "watch were I was f*cking going" and continued to RLJ.

Slow down, cover your brakes, be preparred to stop. Its not a alien concept. I wouldn't plow through at 30mph in a car.

IF people are supporting the cyclist then don't moan when a car comes zooming past with the wing-mirror centimetres away from you.

Honestly ,please, it was your judgment that was poor not the cyclist’s whether going slow or fast. If you say the road was clear to cross and you had crossed nearly 3/4 of the whole road before you impeded the cyclist it clearly wasn’t! You should have judged your crossing better. As suggested previously why did you not just pause for a micro second to let the cyclist go by giving him a little wave or apology in the process then pass by behind him onto the pavement. As a cyclist you must know how annoying jaywalkers are? There are thousands in London all rushing to get everywhere and nowhere.

As for the RLJ that is a totally separate issue. RLJing is wrong and I don't condone it, but given that you had just blocked his path, I suspect he felt like getting away from you given he'd just rebuked you so forcefully. So as unfortunate your misjudging your crossing was followed by his abusive outburst, you were the one who caused it. Had you been more patient to let him pass safely by you before stepping across his path then you would not be writing this post. Perhaps his rebuke to you should have been more temperate but sadly many other cyclists would probably have said the same to a jaywalker.

robmanic1 · April 2009

jedster wrote:

T
That said DDD, I'm afraid you would have got a tut and a "more disappointed than angry" shake of the head from me as I took evasive action.

J

.........and maybe even a "hard stare" for good measure??

DonDaddyD · April 2009

dilemna wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

I wanna explain this one last time.

I didn't step out on him

He was on one side of the road. I was on the other.

Both lanes were clear apart from a cyclist going slowly. I and a few other people crossed. We crossed the first lane and then started to cross the second lane, with the cyclist on. This guy would have seen a number of people crossing the road infront of him.

We then met (with me about 3quarters across the lane) and then he shouted at me to "watch were I was f*cking going" and continued to RLJ.

Slow down, cover your brakes, be preparred to stop. Its not a alien concept. I wouldn't plow through at 30mph in a car.

IF people are supporting the cyclist then don't moan when a car comes zooming past with the wing-mirror centimetres away from you.

Honestly ,please, it was your judgment that was poor not the cyclist’s whether going slow or fast. If you say the road was clear to cross and you had crossed nearly 3/4 of the whole road before you impeded the cyclist it clearly wasn’t! You should have judged your crossing better. As suggested previously why did you not just pause for a micro second to let the cyclist go by giving him a little wave or apology in the process then pass by behind him onto the pavement. As a cyclist you must know how annoying jaywalkers are? There are thousands in London all rushing to get everywhere and nowhere.

As for the RLJ that is a totally separate issue. RLJing is wrong and I don't condone it, but given that you had just blocked his path, I suspect he felt like getting away from you given he'd just rebuked you so forcefully. So as unfortunate your misjudging your crossing was followed by his abusive outburst, you were the one who caused it. Had you been more patient to let him pass safely by you before stepping across his path then you would not be writing this post. Perhaps his rebuke to you should have been more temperate but sadly many other cyclists would probably have said the same to a jaywalker.

"Wave and apologise" to someone who basically continued on a path and speed as though to collide with me but who could have just as easily slowed down as I could have stopped? How about I just put my lips on his ass as he glides past. Of all the sanctimonious drivel. The guy is lucky I didn't kick him off his bike! (There I said it).

Truth is in almost any situation, there will be circumstances where either party will be at fault. Your posts suggests that the cyclist was completely right. I know! Next time your 'jay-walking' how about I approach you and 'tap' my accelerator for good measure.

Oh and I know the RLJ is a seperate issue, he still did it. It's still wrong.

dilemna · April 2009

DonDaddyD wrote:

"Wave and apologise" to someone who basically continued on a path and speed as though to collide with me but who could have just as easily slowed down as I could have stopped? How about I just put my lips on his ass as he glides past.

LoL.......... or hers.........LoL even more LoL.

DonDaddyD wrote:

Of all the sanctimonious drivel. The guy is lucky I didn't kick him off his bike! (There I said it).

So much agression.... :? Are you fulfilled in your life? Do you have moments of major self doubt?

DonDaddyD wrote:

Truth is in almost any situation, there will be circumstances where either party will be at fault. Your posts suggests that the cyclist was completely right. I know! Next time your 'jay-walking' how about I approach you and 'tap' my accelerator for good measure.

I think you know you lost the argument now as you resort to physical threats....... :shock:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Oh and I know the RLJ is a seperate issue, he still did it. It's still wrong.

We agree on something then.........

You must have realised that not everyone would be sympathetic to your post especially cyclists in town/cities who routinely have jaywalkers blatantly cross their path without so much as an apology. I'm not saying his abusing you was right but it was afterall precipitated by your crossing in front of him.

DonDaddyD · April 2009

dilemna wrote:

So much agression.... :? Are you fulfilled in your life? Do you have moments of major self doubt?

I'm only ever happy when I'm astride a bike pounding the open air, howling at the wind while clutching a freshly claimed scalp in my hand! I'm feral, wild a force of nature, passion and rage unmatched!!! I am fire, watch me burn!!!

As for yesterdays encounter, I can accept where I went wrong. I should have waited, been more aware and if I was the cyclist - and have been - would have been pissed.

I can accept where I was at fault and use this site to vent frustration, learn and see situations through eyes of people with experience similar to my own.

I still think the guy was a d*ck though. When he screamed to startle me had I swung or reacted with suprise I could have knocked off his bike. (Maybe should have done so and said sorry "you came out of nowhere

) next time he might have stopped... - yes that logic can be argued both ways and the cyclist could have knocked me over and said the same thing to teach me a lesson... see no one learns...

The Chingford Skinhead · April 2009

As somebody suffering the consequences of a j-walking ped (albeit he sprung out on me from in front of a bus) I can understand the cyclist being annoyed. Just as you had things on your mind perhaps he had to: he may just have had a day of motorists and peds doing things to endanger him. Yes he could have slowed down but strictly speaking he did have right of way. Perhaps like you he misjudged your speed and thought you'd be either well clear by the time he arrived or if not, that you'd do the sensible thing and stop until he passed. to still be in his lane suggests you expected him to slow and make allowances for you rather than you taking that responsibility

Just to satisfy my curiousity, you said he promptly rlj'd - does that mean there was a ped crossing that you could have properly used just a few metres away or what? Not accusing you of anything, just trying to picture the scene

Sewinman · April 2009

I have been both the ped. on the street getting abused and the cyclist doing it. It is a sad state of affairs but I think these events are a symptom of living in an over-populated city - too many people, not enough room, 'rights of way', hurrying about, stress, intolerance, anger.

It would never happen in a country village would it!

One of the negatives of London/Cities IMHO.

doog442 · April 2009

you should have posted that you had a dog with you then all the sheep on here would be on your side

your passage through the city would be free of pesky cyclists as they would be forced to dive out of your way

messsage to mods..please get a sheep type 'emoticon' 8)

doog442 · April 2009

Always Tyred wrote:

DDD, if he hadn't have bawled his head off at you, would you have apologised or acknowledged that you'd somehow contrived to step out in front of the only bit of traffic present?

Mistakes are made. I am often baffled by the ability of peds and drivers to simply fail to accommodate my presence on an otherwise deserted street. It happens. Its very annoying.

Personally, I tend to tut, unless its dangerous (in which case I rip off a head or two and stamp on the still twitching corpse). This morning I managed a "jesus christ" at a dappy mother who was standing by her open car door, opposite another parked car with traffic coming from both directions. But that's about it - she made me stop and only managed to blink stupidly, before gathering her wit (singular) and pretending that she had, in fact, noticed what was going on before launching into traffic. (I can only imagine that husband earns the cash in that household).

Honestly - your experience shows two things (1) you cocked up a bit (2) being a nasty agressive indignant fool cyclist doesn't help the cause of cycling generally.

perhaps that poor dappy mother was securing her child into a car seat..heaven help us that she had to do such a task and have eyes in the back of her head for the silent "jesus christ" type commute commuter...

always_tyred · April 2009

doog442 wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

DDD, if he hadn't have bawled his head off at you, would you have apologised or acknowledged that you'd somehow contrived to step out in front of the only bit of traffic present?

Mistakes are made. I am often baffled by the ability of peds and drivers to simply fail to accommodate my presence on an otherwise deserted street. It happens. Its very annoying.

Personally, I tend to tut, unless its dangerous (in which case I rip off a head or two and stamp on the still twitching corpse). This morning I managed a "jesus christ" at a dappy mother who was standing by her open car door, opposite another parked car with traffic coming from both directions. But that's about it - she made me stop and only managed to blink stupidly, before gathering her wit (singular) and pretending that she had, in fact, noticed what was going on before launching into traffic. (I can only imagine that husband earns the cash in that household).

Honestly - your experience shows two things (1) you cocked up a bit (2) being a nasty agressive indignant fool cyclist doesn't help the cause of cycling generally.

perhaps that poor dappy mother was securing her child into a car seat..heaven help us that she had to do such a task and have eyes in the back of her head for the silent "jesus christ" type commute commuter...

No, she opened her door into traffic without looking. Its a phenomenon that results in cyclists ending up underneath the wheels of following cars. As it happens I saw it happening and slowed in anticipation. All things considered I think it was quite restrained. If you wish, we can discuss the distinction between a shared use bridleway and a public highway, which was the crux of your previous misconception.

Of course, I could be wrong, and she could have climbed from the passenger seat over her child in a booster seat, behind the wheel, which would explain why the driver's door opened in front of me.

doog442 · April 2009

thats strange :?:

you originally posted 'she was standing by her OPEN car door'

now you say 'she opened her door into traffic without looking'

thats a major change of facts.....lets hope you never get asked to make a statement eh!

Lets see in your first statement you see an obstruction ahead.....and basically give the motorist (who happens to be a parent!! )....abuse

Are parents not entitled to use the highway to manouvre themselves and their children into vehicles?

Second statement you say she opened the car door without looking? You still give abuse..perhaps if you were cycling defensively you may have seen her at the door and judged the situation slightly better

always_tyred · April 2009

doog442 wrote:

thats strange :?:

you originally posted 'she was standing by her OPEN car door'

now you say 'she opened her door into traffic without looking'

thats a major change of facts.....lets hope you never get asked to make a statement eh!

Lets see in your first statement you see an obstruction ahead.....and basically give the motorist (who happens to be a parent!! )....abuse

Are parents not entitled to use the highway to manouvre themselves and their children into vehicles?

Second statement you say she opened the car door without looking? You still give abuse..perhaps if you were cycling defensively you may have seen her at the door and judged the situation slightly better

It wasn't a dooring. I have been doored, its not fun. What she did was open the door, get out, look up and realise that I was looking right back at her, waiting for her to do something other than stand in front of me in the road, whilst poorly attempting a track stand (which always ends up like a track creep forward).

I could't proceed becuase there was a parked car and oncoming traffic. Furthermore, she didn't close the door and step in towards the car like a normal person, she just bluffed it out and I ended up cycling past the still fully open door, once the oncoming traffic had passed. There was a car behind me which had to do the same. I didn't regard it was considerate or safe, since in these situations there is a significant risk that the following vehicle doesn't expect the cyclist (or car, it didn't matter in this instance) to stop. Clear enough for you, or would you like a picture?

Stop trolling and sod off to another forum. Alternatively, go and find a nice family path along the sea front and shout at some dogs.

doog442 · April 2009

Stop trolling and sod off to another forum. Alternatively, go and find a nice family path along the sea front and shout at some dogs.

your story doesnt figure..in other words you you dont tell the truth and as such your post has little credibility...this time you havent been 'nearly killed' by a motorist again you have been nearly wiped out by a mum putting a kid in a car seat .. i suppose in weeks to come you will elevate this to a near killing :roll:

As for sodding off to another forum, ive been here a year i think I will stay

likewise having suffered your trolling in the doggy post i think its fair to say that you dont like it back now do you :?:

I will shout at dogs and you can shout at young mothers..whatever takes your fancy

Clever Pun · April 2009

Sewinman wrote:

I have been both the ped. on the street getting abused and the cyclist doing it. It is a sad state of affairs but I think these events are a symptom of living in an over-populated city - too many people, not enough room, 'rights of way', hurrying about, stress, intolerance, anger.

It would never happen in a country village would it!

One of the negatives of London/Cities IMHO.

Excellent use of

the cyclist would have already been run over

always_tyred · April 2009

doog442 wrote:

Stop trolling and sod off to another forum. Alternatively, go and find a nice family path along the sea front and shout at some dogs.

your story doesnt figure..in other words you you dont tell the truth and as such your post has little credibility...this time you havent been 'nearly killed' by a motorist again you have been nearly wiped out by a mum putting a kid in a car seat .. i suppose in weeks to come you will elevate this to a near killing :roll:

As for sodding off to another forum, ive been here a year i think I will stay likewise having suffered your trolling in the doggy post i think its fair to say that you dont like it back now do you :?:

I will shout at dogs and you can shout at young mothers..whatever takes your fancy

What the hell are you talking about? It was outside of a school. I assume she was on a school run. She could have been an MI5 operative, I suppose and the school could have been a coincidence.

Run a poll of people who have had near misses with large metallic objects and then attempt to argue that my cycling is somehow bad becuase occasionally I have a near miss. I very rarely have close calls with dogs, if that's any guide for you.

This wan't a near miss - it was an irritation. Had I been like the guy in DDD's story, I'd have gone right up to her, or buzzed her, and shouted, which is why I made the analogy. As it was I waited and passed when safe to do so, baffled as to why her driver's door was still fully open.

As for defensive cycling - I'd shoulder checked, it was fine the car behind wasn't too close and seemed to be looking at me. I just get nervous around schools becuase people get preoccupied and do odd things, which is what the DDD asailant should have done, perhaps with a mutterance but not more.

You shout at people with dogs... oh. Okay. I thought you only muttered, but that's fine, shout is sort of what it came over as anyway.

The point that I took issue with was not what you did - its irritating, lots of people acknowledged that, including me, twice. The issue was that you thought you were in the right in principle. You thought that since it was part of the NCN, you had priority, this was wrong in fact but you simply won't be told.

Instead, you then argued that this particular bit of the NCN was different, which was why we didn't understand. You then tried to argue that anyone who disagreed can't have had much experience with dogs. You then attempted to argue that people should get out of your way 300 yards in advance, that hamlets don't exist and that Dorset is hillier than Scotland. Stop me when I misrepresent you.

Furthermore, you had a go at someone pointing out to you that having a pop at someone who has every right to be there and seemed to be acting responsibly wasn't cricket.

By all means take issue with me on some borderline point, but we haven't found one yet.

Tell you what - lets throw it to the floor - other than some bloke who wants to take issue about me personally, because he's sore that his little zig zag isn't very big and because I stick up for innocent dogs, is there ANYONE who things that standing next to your open driver's door watching the traffic you are holding up is okay?

will3 · April 2009

So if the car door hadn't been open/opened, would you have used that space to pass the car? I know I wouldn't, just in case someone opened it at the wrong moment.
If you habitually cycle in the door zone, you can expect this.

always_tyred · April 2009

will3 wrote:

So if the car door hadn't been open/opened, would you have used that space to pass the car? I know I wouldn't, just in case someone opened it at the wrong moment.
If you habitually cycle in the door zone, you can expect this.

The road was wide enough for a car, me and 2 parked cars (not directly opposite). I honestly don't know if it would be wide enough for 2 cars to pass - I thought so. I might have been able to proceed, but this would have entailed rather too much trust in the driver coming the opposite way to stay as close as possible to their left. Its possible, therefore, that the driver standing in the road assumed that it was okay to force me that close to oncoming traffic and wouldn't have understood the need to stop. I doubt it, since I was only left about 3 feet, but its possible.

Other than cycle lanes painted in the door zone, I don't ride in it where possible. Practiably, however, you do have to, hence the advice to check to see if someone is in the driver's seat, throught the rear windown, or the driver's mirror.

This is how I managed to anticipate that she was going to step out of the car despite there being insufficient time for her to avoid causing me to stop. The road was not comfortable to pass with the door fully open and someone standing there.

Btw, attempting to ride 4 feet from the side of parked cars in all circumstances will get you knocked off by angry motorists, at least in this city. So please don't be absolute on that issue. Its misleading and unhelpful and might encourage less experienced cyclist to put themselves in harm's way. By your description, you should walk to work, because you would be stopping, just in case, every few feet. Possibly you will eventually get run down by following vehicles, the drivers of which can't understand why you have just jumped on the brakes.

Clearly you don't do this and you are simply chosing to be obtuse. Careful with the "I would have avoided that" tack - it pops up with respect to accidents and frequently does disservice to those unfortunate enough to be in one.

This is not one of those cases, it was simply somoene making a slightly dippy mistake and being suprised that the road they assumed was quiet was in fact full of vehicles.

hisoka · April 2009

Clever Pun wrote:

Sewinman wrote:

I have been both the ped. on the street getting abused and the cyclist doing it. It is a sad state of affairs but I think these events are a symptom of living in an over-populated city - too many people, not enough room, 'rights of way', hurrying about, stress, intolerance, anger.

It would never happen in a country village would it!

One of the negatives of London/Cities IMHO.

Excellent use of

the cyclist would have already been run over

I think that fence could do with a seat on the top, something with two easy ways to get down, one either side.
And this is for me, as I have mentioned at work to lots of people who's computers (very out of date ones) I remotely support "that should continue to work but might break down again. I will not get off the fence and say for certain, it's comfy on here."

georgio15 · April 2009

i was on my bike last night and a guy was crossing the road, hadn't looked at all, was walking diagonally away from me and had no idea i was there. i shouted at him, nothing rude, just making him aware, and he went mental, like arms flying everywhere, and it finished with him standing in the road. he then continued to cross and my mate was right next to him. luckily, he managed to get out of the guys way. had there been a car there as well as me, coming from the other direction, he would have been nailed.

pedestrian crossings were designed for pedestrians to cross the road safely!!!!

always_tyred · April 2009

georgio15 wrote:

i was on my bike last night and a guy was crossing the road, hadn't looked at all, was walking diagonally away from me and had no idea i was there. i shouted at him, nothing rude, just making him aware, and he went mental, like arms flying everywhere, and it finished with him standing in the road. he then continued to cross and my mate was right next to him. luckily, he managed to get out of the guys way. had there been a car there as well as me, coming from the other direction, he would have been nailed.

pedestrian crossings were designed for pedestrians to cross the road safely!!!!

Clearly you were wrong. You shouldn't cycle in the pedestrian zone.

My encounter, as a pedestrian, with a cyclist

Comments

Categories