How to brake

johnbirkby46213

Not for me but for STMBO!
She keeps grabbing way too much front brake with the inevitable consequences!!!

I actually have no idea how I brake other than to guess I apply vaguelly even pressure with both hands. My explanation to STMBO has not been understood/accepted etc etc and so the summersaults keep happening.

So guys and gals, is there a little routine she can practice, a small mantra she can learn in order to brake safely. I really need something before she becomes crash phobic and no longer wants to get on her bike (which atm I admire her courage for "getting back on")

Thanks in advance

JB

k-dog

The rear brake is irrelevant unless you're going down a steep hill or on a slippery surface.

The maximum braking you can have is front only with the rear wheel only just making contact with the ground - so braking that wheel wouldn't do anything.

It just takes practice though - she basically needs to apply a bit less pressure.

Wouldn't hurt to adjust the brakes too so that it takes a bigger pull of the lever to activate - makes it harder to jam on the brakes.

Monty Dog

Firstly, check that your partner can reach and grip the levers properly particularly if she has small hands - the brakes may need adjusting to ensure that they start biting with the lever partly drawn to give more control. A softer brake compound might help too.
Find a long hill with a good run-out and practise. Start gently, near the bottom, rolling down the hill and getting a feel for the amount of braking pressure and the effect it has on speed.
Go progressively up the hill and start building up speed and leaving the braking to later and varying the amount of braking effort.
60-70% of braking effort should be through the front wheel - the back brake is supplemental and to keep the wheels in-line.
One confident in a straight line, then start looking at corners.

Anonymous

Grabbing too much front brake is better than too much back brake, believe me!

will3

k-dog wrote:

The rear brake is irrelevant unless you're going down a steep hill or on a slippery surface.

The maximum braking you can have is front only with the rear wheel only just making contact with the ground - so braking that wheel wouldn't do anything.

People always quote this, but in reality who rides around trying to brake as hard as possible every time they brake? In the OP's SWIMBO's case, it would seem that not trying to do what you suggest would be the way forward.

will3

NapoleonD wrote:

Grabbing too much front brake is better than too much back brake, believe me!

I don't believe you.

Locked rear wheel is controllable, locked front? No thanks.

Anonymous

In that case, read my blog.
It is a damned site harder to lock the front...

STEFANOS4784

IME the rear locks up very easily and can be hard to tell your skidding until you notice your going sideways, i always lean right back over the rear wheel and use the front brake with a little bit of rear in an emergency. The only way i could stop at a moments notice in an emergency is to either go over the handle bars or use the obstacle as a buffer :?

kieranb

this might help a bit, read:
http://www.cyclinglucan.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=176&Itemid=51

roger_merriman

as others have said check she can reach the brakes properly, when is she going over? emergency stops or just a bit of hard braking?

is she letting her self move forward when she brakes there for endo?

i'd get her to pratice getting the feel of the brakes as you get close the the edge of traction, possibly a MTB on a nice muddy track? for a safe silly way to learn. also would teach how to get off the saddle and get more weight back so your not 100% front brake.

on the road

Down to experience, if she grabs too much front brake, she'll soon learn

STEFANOS4784

on the road wrote:

Down to experience,

Forgot to say that but agree, they're much different to mtb brakes.....

Stewie Griffin

And Sheldon says;

"Conventional wisdom says to use both brakes at the same time. This is probably good advice for beginners, who have not yet learned to use their brakes skillfully, but if you don't graduate past this stage, you will never be able to stop as short safely as a cyclist who has learned to use the front brake by itself."

http://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html

roger_merriman

Stewie Griffin wrote:

And Sheldon says;

"Conventional wisdom says to use both brakes at the same time. This is probably good advice for beginners, who have not yet learned to use their brakes skillfully, but if you don't graduate past this stage, you will never be able to stop as short safely as a cyclist who has learned to use the front brake by itself."

http://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html

that is only true of emergency stops, and also makes the assumption that you don't shift your weight back. all of which partically with regard to road biking is while a little simplistic, fairly valid reasoning.

it is possible to get the rear to do more but one really does have make it happen.

eh

I'm going to disagree with most above and suggest she learns how to use the rear brake first. Most of the time on a road bike you don't need to slam the anchors on, so to control speed the rear brake will happily do that in the majority of situations. Then once you are in control/at a comfortable speed a gentle use of the front will provide the big chunk of actual stopping power, if you need to stop for say a T junction.

I'd also ensure the front isn't really tightly set-up as it can end up with a very off and on feel, rather than being progressive.

Weight distribution on steep slopes is an issue (i.e. need to be further back) but on most stuff you should be able to happily stop sitting on the saddle.

oldwelshman

Sorry will3 I agree with Monty on this one.
Majority of braking on fron with a little back if required.
Try cornering in a race on a decent and use just the back and your in deep shiiit, especiallyu in the wet where even a small bit of back brake on a bend will cause a skid.
It is just practise getting the feel right but 60 40 split sounds good but never actually measured it
Of course it is also best to brake before bends and not in them, but some times you may need to brake in a bend, then its most front.
Can't say I have ever overdone the front brake, the bike just stops.
Locked back up loads of times, mostly messing about

johnbirkby46213

thanks for the differing advice. She goes base over apex in a straight line, never on bends (not yet at least!) If she thinks she is going to crash, etc she yanks the front brake, wheel stops and over she goes. Simple as that. Its the fool proof method for getting her to stop grabbing such a handful that I'm after. I don't think I made that clear enough originally - sorry.
Her brakes are not cantileaver nor are they centre pull. They look exactly like the sort on my mountain bike but am hanged if I can remember the name. Could that be an issue. They are damned good on my mountain bike! Er are they "V brakes"? Hmm think so.

k-dog

People always quote this, but in reality who rides around trying to brake as hard as possible every time they brake?

But that's not the point of the statement - it's only saying that the back brake doesn't matter - even if you need to stop in a hurry.

I rarely jam on the front brake - but I use it on its own all the time - to slow me down gradually.

It does sound like she is just panicking and grabbing too much brake though - doesn't matter if it's the front or back - if you grab the brake on a corner you will go down.

Possibly the problem is that she hasn't built cornering confidence yet - start slower and build up to a decent cornering speed.

Stewie Griffin

k-dog wrote:

People always quote this, but in reality who rides around trying to brake as hard as possible every time they brake?

But that's not the point of the statement - it's only saying that the back brake doesn't matter - even if you need to stop in a hurry.

I rarely jam on the front brake - but I use it on its own all the time - to slow me down gradually.
It does sound like she is just panicking and grabbing too much brake though - doesn't matter if it's the front or back - if you grab the brake on a corner you will go down.

Possibly the problem is that she hasn't built cornering confidence yet - start slower and build up to a decent cornering speed.

+1, the back brake is there if the front brake cable snaps. Im sure I was taught on my cycling profishensee test as a kid to use the front and not the rear. My memory of this might be slightly distorted by the many years that have lapsed since I got my orange sticker and put it on Grifter. :oops:

will3

Fair enough each to their own and all that, personally I use a bit of both, especially on my CX as if you just use front brake you'll often end up with the bars shaken out of your hands (which I'll hopefully be fixing once Bonthrone pull their finger out and send me some parts )
presumably so long as your rear wheel is touching the tarmac, using the rear brake will slow you down, no? So where's the advantage in not using it? The argument for only using the front brake because if used fully it will completely unload the rear wheel only applies if your front brake/tyre are capable of doing this. Obviously some brake/rider weight combinations will result in a rear wheel fairly firmly in contact with the tarmac at all times :oops:

ride_whenever

with using my rear hard, i find that i can still get significant weight transfer to the front wheel.

As for OP's problem... find somewhere quiet and flat and get her to learn to do endos, it'll teach her decent brake control and how to use her weight to affect her braking, soft grass is probably best.

teagar

isn't the back break of use for scrubbing speed off mid-corner if you're found you've gone in way too hot? Hit the front break mid-corner and you go down quicker than a fat man who sat down too fast.

k-dog

ride_whenever wrote:

with using my rear hard, i find that i can still get significant weight transfer to the front wheel.

Yeah, but the point of that is that if your weight transfers forward then braking the rear wheel is less effective - whereas braking the front wheel will make it more effective.

fnegroni

The rear brake is used to prevent the back from lifting, by preventing sudden shifting of too much weight to the front, not to slow down really as the back end is then lighter and less effective when most needed.

As per cyclecraft's advice, I apply the rear first, firmly but not enough to cause a skid, and a fraction of a second later the front, in a kind of gentle-hard-gentle way, to ensure grip is not lost but all the breaking force is applied when most needed, at the instant I have decided to break.

I found that usually breaking accidents result from a delay in releasing the pressure on the brakes when they are most effective, that is at lower speeds. At high speeds I have never found bicycle brakes to be efficient enough to cause problems unless one has already begun shifting his own weight forward during the first breaking phase, or is in particularly skittish conditions anyway.

pompeypoppy

teagar wrote:

isn't the back break of use for scrubbing speed off mid-corner if you're found you've gone in way too hot? Hit the front break mid-corner and you go down quicker than a fat man who sat down too fast.

I thought that when out in the wet a few weeks ago. Learnt the hard way, with a lock up on the back and a quick fishtail into a hedge.

Always use both brakes now!