Lucozade....

gtvlusso

I ran a Learn to row session a few weeks back. Anyhoo, I had a guy on the session who was way overweight, approximately 20 stone, it was actually difficult to find a boat capable of taking his sheer size - we plonk our Learn to row candidates into racing boats that carry 8 of them and a cox - normal average weight of 90kg per person max.

Being L2R people they are not generally "fit" and have no clue about rowing, so in essence they do virtually no work for the duration of their trip up and down the river.....However, said 20 stone guy drank 3 bottles of Lucozade in 3 hours.

I tell everyone who is coming to the sport with no fitness or ability to stick to water for now and not to "carb up", until they are able to start working and burning it off. Allot of people come to rowing for a social life and to lose weight - gain 6 pack stomachs (a slight fallicy about rowing!)

I read the label on one of these bottles of lucozade to see what it contained. Suffice to say, It would take me a while to burn off one bottle of Lucozade let alone 3 of them - yet this guy swore blind that he felt that drinking this was doing him good and had done so for many years, yet he could not understand why he was 20 stone!

I am all for energy drinks and "replacement" drinks for athletes or those working their butts off - I sometimes carry one bottle of water and one of an electrolyte drink if I am doing some mileage (serious mileage!) on the bike or I am doing a rowing regatta, but I think that people need more education that just drinking Lucozade and doing no exercise is really bad for them!!!!!! I was amazed by this guys ignorance to this simple fact....Lucozade, is actually built for athletes and needs to be burned off! Just drinking bottles of it will not make you slimmer or fitter, it will make you fatter!

I don't think he understood me when I tried to explain this to him......And he is insisting on keeping Lucozade as part of his routine...

Anyone else got any better ways of explaining this to people.....Should the manufacturers of this kind of product put a warning label on it.....?! Is there a label already and I have not seen it?!

I was miffed....

Stone Glider

There is a huge industry dedicated to selling the idea that every ill has a pill. Your 20stone friend is a customer. The small, quiet voices of sanity (including yourself) are playing against a stacked deck.

As my fitness levels have improved I now eat less and drink less than before. I am not working so hard any more as my tchnique improves and the mileage, although increasing, is less demanding. My weight has not altered in the last twelve months, before then I had lost 20kg. If I wish to lose more weight (and I do) I shall have to up the mileage and reduce the intake.

If you make a living out of selling food/health/finess the pressure is on you to sell. If that sounds cynical.......

gtvlusso

This guy could lose maybe 5 stone.....I wanna help him, but he feels he is helping himself......

However, it is so difficult to tell someone something different - he simply believes it is better for him - at least with a can of coke you can burn it off in 30 mins, Lucozade does so much more!!!

He'd be better off rowing with a pint of bitter, lots of proteins!!

Does anyone ride with Lucozade? I'd be interested to know what kinda distances people can do before they need an energy drink....!

Rockbuddy

Ok, thought you were being a bit OTT so looked it up, there is nearly twice as much sugar in the standard Lucozade as standard coke. WOW, did not know that! I guess it's a bit hard to explain to someone who has set ideas that they can do a couple hours of serious excercise before they deplete their glycogen stores and need to replenish. Hydration is essential though, I have been drinking powerade when I get in from work to rehydrate (just 1 bottle followed by more water). It's only a few miles home (max 12miles when I can be bothered to loop) but I sweat like a b1tch and want to replace the electrolytes. I have been reading up though (as I was wanting to cut out the sugar) and see that you can get electrolyte tabs made by Nuun (no sugar!). Drop them in the water and off you go, you could sell your guy this sort of idea. If he has it in his head that high tech sports drink = weight loss then point him in the direction of sugarless. Think they are about £5 for a tube of 12 tabs (each does 500mls water) that's surely cheaper than lucozade??? Available from cotswolds, chain reaction cycles, cycle store etc, (God sounds like an advert ).

hisoka

Being a larger sized chap I can only go "what the feck?" at that. I always knew that "sports drinks" (lucozade etc.) are high in energy by and large as they are used to keep atheletes going.
Just advertising I will agree, it doesn't show what is really needed. Larger you tend to burn more for the same exercise time BUT you need to, water only for me (and electrolytes if warm like this afternoon is turning into).
But I didn't know it was nearly double the sugar of coke, that is impressive!

lost_in_thought

So, I am aware of the evils of energy drinks, and rarely touch them.

However, this policy means that by the time I do reach for the powerade/high5/gatorade/isostar (I don't really rate lucozade as an energy drink) I'm too far gone and about to have a low sugar episode.

How far do you have to go at an average pace before you'll take an energy drink instead of water, presuming you've eaten normally?

gtvlusso

Rockbuddy wrote:

Ok, thought you were being a bit OTT so looked it up, there is nearly twice as much sugar in the standard Lucozade as standard coke. WOW, did not know that! I guess it's a bit hard to explain to someone who has set ideas that they can do a couple hours of serious excercise before they deplete their glycogen stores and need to replenish. Hydration is essential though, I have been drinking powerade when I get in from work to rehydrate (just 1 bottle followed by more water). It's only a few miles home (max 12miles when I can be bothered to loop) but I sweat like a b1tch and want to replace the electrolytes. I have been reading up though (as I was wanting to cut out the sugar) and see that you can get electrolyte tabs made by Nuun (no sugar!). Drop them in the water and off you go, you could sell your guy this sort of idea. If he has it in his head that high tech sports drink = weight loss then point him in the direction of sugarless. Think they are about £5 for a tube of 12 tabs (each does 500mls water) that's surely cheaper than lucozade??? Available from cotswolds, chain reaction cycles, cycle store etc, (God sounds like an advert ).

+1 - to be fair, I though I might be being "fattist", something I would hope I am not being - I wanna help the guy, but I don't think the marketing of these drinks and so on helps people like this. Wanna lose weight, but feel they need "power" drinks to help them!
Electrolytes are a must - helps with cramping, but you can sort that by using a good quality squash mixed with water and a teaspoon of salt (not so nice, but works!). I tell my senior squad rowers to drink a pint of bitter post rowing to replace lost proteins and salts, works a treat!! Not many of the senior rowing squad could burn off a bottle of Lucozade in one training session.......And they are fit people!!

Rockbuddy

hisoka wrote:

But I didn't know it was nearly double the sugar of coke, that is impressive!

Well that was the orginal lucozade (now Lucozade energy), if you look at the newer isotonic / sports tech stuff (lucozade sport and hydro active) think they have alot less sugar in but still comparable to normal soft drinks like coke.

Chewy Cheeks

GTV

Your tolerance store is large - this chap seems to be delusional about the equations of intake and output, paradigm shift may be required for him.

After three hours in the boat I am really impressed he got through it OK.

hisoka

lost_in_thought wrote:

So, I am aware of the evils of energy drinks, and rarely touch them.

However, this policy means that by the time I do reach for the powerade/high5/gatorade/isostar (I don't really rate lucozade as an energy drink) I'm too far gone and about to have a low sugar episode.

How far do you have to go at an average pace before you'll take an energy drink instead of water, presuming you've eaten normally?

Not sure for others but I find about 3 hours is about when I do have to go for one. BUT I am not a fast rider, so I think I deplete my stores slower due to the fact I do tend to always take it mostly easier compared to some (unless purposefully training hard, but always have a drink to hand and don't normally notice the timings).

always_tyred

He's on a L2R programme? Don't worry - he will only row for about 2 months and then give up forever. Providing the boat survives it will all be over soon.

After all, the only point of L2R is "team building", meaning getting highly competitive against the people in the office you don't like very much. Nothing to do with lifestyle changes or anything like that.

gtvlusso

Chewy Cheeks wrote:

GTV

Your tolerance store is large - this chap seems to be delusional about the equations of intake and output, paradigm shift may be required for him.

After three hours in the boat I am really impressed he got through it OK.

3 hours of learning strokes and balance - they barely do any work as such as they can't, yet. 3 hours in a boat working hard would kill me...in fact I would not be able to do it!

I think the point of my concern was that this guy, and possibly others, think that Lucozade and such like are doing them a favour.....I just feel that it is a mis-conception and it is diffcult to persuade people otherwise as they have seen all the marketing that goes with the product. This guys case is extreme - I think he was addicted to the taste of it and the "sugar rush" more than anything else.

roger_merriman

lost_in_thought wrote:

So, I am aware of the evils of energy drinks, and rarely touch them.

However, this policy means that by the time I do reach for the powerade/high5/gatorade/isostar (I don't really rate lucozade as an energy drink) I'm too far gone and about to have a low sugar episode.

How far do you have to go at an average pace before you'll take an energy drink instead of water, presuming you've eaten normally?

peice of string most likely i've not bothered with any thing yet and tend to do 40/50 miles out into the downs, my main problem is my bike only has one fixing for a water bottle which is pain.

Rich158

lost_in_thought wrote:

So, I am aware of the evils of energy drinks, and rarely touch them.

However, this policy means that by the time I do reach for the powerade/high5/gatorade/isostar (I don't really rate lucozade as an energy drink) I'm too far gone and about to have a low sugar episode.

How far do you have to go at an average pace before you'll take an energy drink instead of water, presuming you've eaten normally?

It depends on the ride, if it's about 20 miles then I don't bother and just use water. Anything over about 2 hours I use an energy drink, and try to sip every 15 mins or so. That way I know the fuel will be there when I need it, I do the same with energy bars to give my system enough time to digest them and process the fuel for use later on in the ride.

If you wait untill you feel like you're running on empty it's probably too late, although I have found the Torq gels are very good for an instant burst of energy at the end of a ride.

Sirius631

Your 20st bloke may feel the initial benefit of drinking energy drinks because his body can only use energy that is immediately available, rather than braking into his fat stores. Not all exercise is of benefit, only low level work teaches the body to run on fat. Despite the carb overload in these drinks, he might be unable to generate sufficient energy otherwise. The spare calories unfortunately will go into fat storage.

Stuey01

gtvlusso wrote:

I tell my senior squad rowers to drink a pint of bitter post rowing to replace lost proteins and salts, works a treat!! Not many of the senior rowing squad could burn off a bottle of Lucozade in one training session.......And they are fit people!!

A pint of bitter contains only about 2g of protein so the basis for your recommendation is unsound.
You would be better off telling them to drink chocolate milk, for the high protein and sugar content, plus an electrolyte drink. Or something like dunn's river nourishment.

Failing that get a proper post workout drink, but these tend to cost ££££'s - Biotest Surge is an (expensive) example.

gtvlusso

Stuey01 wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

I tell my senior squad rowers to drink a pint of bitter post rowing to replace lost proteins and salts, works a treat!! Not many of the senior rowing squad could burn off a bottle of Lucozade in one training session.......And they are fit people!!

A pint of bitter contains only about 2g of protein so the basis for your recommendation is unsound.
You would be better off telling them to drink chocolate milk, for the high protein and sugar content, plus an electrolyte drink. Or something like dunn's river nourishment.

Failing that get a proper post workout drink, but these tend to cost ££££'s - Biotest Surge is an (expensive) example.

Did not realise that! I thought it was pretty good for protein (wheat and so on)?! They seem to enjoy the bitter anyway.....!!!

Stuey01

I reckon it is probably an easy sell! but unfortunately probably not as benficial as you'd first thought...

gtvlusso

WTF does this mean?! From Pharmacy times:

The Goodness in Beer
Published Online: December 1, 2002 - 12:00:00 AM (CST)
Moderate consumption of beer was linked to increased high-density lipo-protein (HDL) cholesterol levels in women in a study published in Alcoholism, Clinical and Experimental Research. The study involved 9 women aged 49 to 62 who were asked to drink 3 glasses of beer each night with dinner for 3 weeks, followed by another 3-month period in which they did not drink beer. A controlled diet was used during both periods. Consumption of beer was linked to a 12% increase in HDL cholesterol levels and a 9% increase in apolipoprotein A-I levels. In addition, paraoxonase activity levels increased by 4% after 2 weeks of beer consumption. Larger studies are needed to confirm these beneficial effects of beer.

Suffice to say the squad all say they feel better after a pint of good ol' beer....IS this due to the above? I assumed it was down to wheat proteins and so on......!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandte ... -body.html

Maybe I should have beer in my bottle on training rides?!

Stuey01

HDL cholestorol is the "good" cholestorol that flora and such like go on about. high levels of hdl are linked to lower incidence of heart disease.

It has very little to do with athletic performance and recovery.
Your athletes need to be getting a decent sized hit of protein 20-30g along with a hit of fast absorbing carbs to spike insulin levels and shuttle the amino acids from the protein into the muscles.

gtvlusso

ah - I may cancel "bitter" trainig then....any other recommended alcoholic drinkies for "recovery"? I am thinking perfect Martini's (gin and vermouth).....!

Stuey01

By all means keep the beer, just stir some protein powder in there too :shock:

Egg-nog probably has a high protein content, but don't know if you could stomach it after a training sesh!

(n.b. I really wouldn't recommend protein powder and beer mixed together! bleeeurgh)

Greg T

lost_in_thought wrote:

How far do you have to go at an average pace before you'll take an energy drink instead of water, presuming you've eaten normally?

The rate at which you deplete your glycogen stores varies with fitness / adaptation levels and also other factors such as how much work you've been doing recently and how much rest you have had since your last session in which to recover and refuel.

Also "moderate" exercise is a broad church that ranges from a brisk walk to just below canning it.

It's a really complicated space and I'm a bluffer but this is my take on it.

You have about 1 - 1.5 hrs worth of "moderate exercise" circa 70 - 80% Max Heart Rate (yes I know it's not a perfect proxy etc etc etc) Glycogen in your muscles.

You have an additional 1 - 1.5 hrs worth in your liver / other stores that you can mobilise in short order.

This is if you are well rested and have eaten enough carbs recently with enough rest to stock up on Glycogen.

Ignoring lactic build up (which is different and unless you have no blood shouldn't be a problem at this intensity) you should therefore have "about" 2- 3hrs worth of glycogen to utilse in a session after which you will be dipping into utilsing fat stores at a higher rate (and all the problems with making this pathway work etc etc)...

Once you exceed this ready to use Glycogen and are going for fats it's not only not as readily available but your brain works 100% on glycogen - that's why bonking is so damaging - your brain soen't have the juice to keep you working and you just feel awful - your muscles may have the power you need but the brain is just shutting down.

This is why sipping glycogen at 2-3hrs helps you keep going - it's not only the muscles you are feeding - it's your brain - and it's the brain that matters.

If you don't eat enough carbs and rest you run down your glycogen stores so your 2/3hr range is greatly diminshed and you run out of go juice much earlier - you get degraded over time - by Friday night I'm pretty badly degraded and struggle....

Lucozade isn't a health drink - it's liquid pies and should be banned...

Also what's all this nonsense about protein in beer - what do you think it's made from - hamsters?

gtvlusso

Sod it, I will just inject them all with steroids!

gtvlusso

Greg T wrote:

Also what's all this nonsense about protein in beer - what do you think it's made from - hamsters?

Well......have you tasted Staropramen?!

Nah, it was passed on to me from a previous coach - I assumed it was for protein value, but apperently it is good for re-hydration as opposed to any replacement, I am no bio scientist (as you can see!), so I will keep it from the social point of view and people seem to feel allot better, drinking a beer/real ale, after working their guts out.....

Helps socially too....

NGale

I make my own lucozade type drinks at a fraction of the cost. bottle of sainsburys basic orange squash dilute as normal and then add a pinch of salt.

when you sweat it's usual the salt and water you need to replace and with the sweetness of the orange it covers up the taste of the salt

works for me and a whole lot cheaper

Stuey01

Helps socially too....

Amen.

biondino

gtvlusso wrote:

WTF does this mean?! From Pharmacy times:

The Goodness in Beer
Published Online: December 1, 2002 - 12:00:00 AM (CST)
Moderate consumption of beer was linked to increased high-density lipo-protein (HDL) cholesterol levels in women in a study published in Alcoholism, Clinical and Experimental Research. The study involved 9 women aged 49 to 62 who were asked to drink 3 glasses of beer each night with dinner for 3 weeks, followed by another 3-month period in which they did not drink beer. A controlled diet was used during both periods. Consumption of beer was linked to a 12% increase in HDL cholesterol levels and a 9% increase in apolipoprotein A-I levels. In addition, paraoxonase activity levels increased by 4% after 2 weeks of beer consumption. Larger studies are needed to confirm these beneficial effects of beer.

Suffice to say the squad all say they feel better after a pint of good ol' beer....IS this due to the above? I assumed it was down to wheat proteins and so on......!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandte ... -body.html

Maybe I should have beer in my bottle on training rides?!

Are you really asking why people enjoy a pint of beer after exercise :shock:

(also your advice re eating more salt is warped - more salt in the blood stream means water will leave the cells via osmosis and people will dehydrate quicker. And it raises blood pressure. You have an alarmingly old wives' attitude to nutrition considering you're looking after the wellbeing of others!)

A bottle of lucozade has, I learn, 266 calories in it. I burn off 300-350 calories on my 7-mile commute. On a 50 mile ride I'm burning 3000-odd calories. So 12 lucozades would make up the shortfall? Energy drinks are unnecessary for people who don't need the energy but let's not demonise them when they're useful - having bonked horrifically after unwisely taking only water on a 40-mile ride I'd rather deal with the calories.

il_principe

+1 for the Nunn. For any ride over 20 miles I'll always have one bottle with Nunn. For a long ride (50 - 100 miles) I'll have 1 bottle Nunn and one with SiS Go, also carry another sachet of SiS and another Nunn tab for refills as well as a couple of clif bars. Often I won't need all this stuff but I'd rather be prepared. I would't use lucozade but I have had to stop at a shop for an emergency coke before now (this is why I now carry more than I'll need). As others have said, if you feel like you need the energy then it's probably too late.

gtvlusso

biondino wrote:

[(also your advice re eating more salt is warped - more salt in the blood stream means water will leave the cells via osmosis and people will dehydrate quicker. And it raises blood pressure. You have an alarmingly old wives' attitude to nutrition considering you're looking after the wellbeing of others!)

I have never advised anyone to eat more salt. It is something that the body requires, but I would never advise anyone to eat more!

I have looked over rowing squads for around 10 years, so my attitude and knowledge is old school and I need to invest more time in learning more - good to get allot of views on this as there is allot of contradiction within sport. After all, I do this volutarily - not as a pro.

Water during training or good quality squash with a little salt has always been used and a pint of beer post training - seems to work okay and I have not had problems, hence not changing (twas my assumtion that it was for protein replacement - turns out I am wrong!)

I was just shocked by this one guys Lucuzade intake and what it contained....hence why he has never lost weight.....

A few years ago I had to persuade one of my girls that eating veg was gopod for her - she lived on crisps!

il_principe

biondino wrote:

:

(also your advice re eating more salt is warped - more salt in the blood stream means water will leave the cells via osmosis and people will dehydrate quicker. And it raises blood pressure. You have an alarmingly old wives' attitude to nutrition considering you're looking after the wellbeing of others!)

A bottle of lucozade has, I learn, 266 calories in it. I burn off 300-350 calories on my 7-mile commute. On a 50 mile ride I'm burning 3000-odd calories. So 12 lucozades would make up the shortfall? Energy drinks are unnecessary for people who don't need the energy but let's not demonise them when they're useful - having bonked horrifically after unwisely taking only water on a 40-mile ride I'd rather deal with the calories.

Gotta disagree with you here Blondie. Salts are very important, you lose a lot through sweat, more so on hot days and it is important to replace it. This is from the ACSM - Amercian College of Sports Medicine:

(This pronouncement was written for the Amercian College of Sports Medicine by: Victor A. Convertino, Ph.D., FACSM (Chair); Lawrence E. Armstrong, Ph.D., FACSM; Edward F. Coyle, Ph.D., FACSM; Gary W. Mack, Ph.D.; Michael N. Sawka, Ph.D., FACSM; Leo C. Senay, Jr., Ph.D., FACSM; and W. Michael Sherman, Ph.D., FACSM. )

The primary objective for replacing body fluid loss during exercise is to maintain normal hydration. One should consume adequate fluids during the 24-h period before an event and drink about 500 ml (about 17 ounces) of fluid about 2 h before exercise to promote adequate hydration and allow time for excretion of excess ingested water. To minimize risk of thermal injury and impairment of exercise performance during exercise, fluid replacement should attempt to equal fluid loss. At equal exercise intensity, the requirement for fluid replacement becomes greater with increased sweating during environmental thermal stress. During exercise lasting longer than 1 h, a) carbohydrates should be added to the fluid replacement solution to maintain blood glucose concentration and delay the onset of fatigue, and b) electrolytes (primarily NaCl) should be added to the fluid replacement solution to enhance palatability and reduce the probability for development of hyponatremia. During exercise, fluid and carbohydrate requirements can be met simultaneously by ingesting 600-1200 ml ? h-1 of solutions containing 4%-8% carbohydrate. During exercise greater than 1 h, approximately 0.5-0.7 g of sodium per liter of water would be appropriate to replace that lost from sweating.