Delays at TL's before they go Green

phil_ss1

A year or so ago the local council replaced and "improved" some Traffic Lights near where I live.

They caused more tailbacks and delays than existed before the council meddled with them.

The reason seemed to be that after the pedestrian Greeen Man had finished (with NO flashing stage) there is a forced delay before the traffic lights go to Red/Amber let alone Green! At these lights it is 13 seconds!!!

Try counting that now and imagine no-one moving (except numpty, lawbreaking, anti-social RLJ'rs of course :roll: )

Apparently, after a phone call to council, it appears that there's a table of 'width of road' to 'seconds of delay' and because there is a double width road either side of the central refuge with no "Z" barrier in the middle (so it counts as "one go") then the delay had to stay at 13 secs. They will not change it.

Hardly anyone crosses that way and it's an open junction so people can be seen and even if the lights are on Green when entering the road road users should give way to people/vehicles already on the road.

Councils and government bang on about ecology etc.. then introduce stupid rules that cause more fuel to be used.

P
(currently cheesed off with Britain)

rolf_f

phil_ss1 wrote:

Councils and government bang on about ecology etc.. then introduce stupid rules that cause more fuel to be used.

But this response hardly helps either! It isn't about 'banging on about ecology' (and generally there's no expectation of any ecology on a pedestrian crossing even in the greenest world! Plants and tarmac don't mix except on my drive....) - rather it is a clash between environmental needs and H&S.

If the traffic light is (and it doesn't sound it) purely a pedestrian crossing, then it shouldn't be a problem if it isn't used much because the lights won't be red often. Presuming that it is actually part of another sequence one solution would be a central refuge but that would cost money. It sounds like the 13 second delay probably is necessary for the pedestrians (don't want any little old ladies getting flattened surely - they'd slow you down unless you are on an MTB!!) so the obvious (to me) sensible suggestion for the council would be to remove the pedestrian signal from the normal sequence and only have the green man appear if the button is pressed. This should (in theory, if the system isn't deliberately stupid) be achievable with a few minutes reprogramming - ie almost free.

Suggest that to the council. If they say no to that, then you can bang on about how stupid they are!

My gripe is with Bradford - the traffic lights are appallingly sequenced there. No matter what way you move around the central ring roads, you just hit red light after red. Mind you, Leeds has its classics - one roundabout near me is more clogged at weekends even though there is less traffic due to pointlessly shortened sequences. But then Bradford just keep the long rush hour sequences running all through the night!

phil_ss1

They are normal TLs and if any of the buttons are pressed the 13 secs is added onto the end, even if no-one crosses the wide part.

Annoying.

P

biondino

Annoying (in the same way that it's annoying waiting for a computer program to load, or time lag on a long distance phone call) but adding 7 or 8 seconds to your journey isn't going to make a lot of difference! And if it saves just one granny from being squashed, it's worth it.

peachos

why hang around, just go through em...

Eau Rouge

peachos wrote:

why hang around, just go through em...

Boooo!

Your traffic, think like etc etc.

rolf_f

phil_ss1 wrote:

They are normal TLs and if any of the buttons are pressed the 13 secs is added onto the end, even if no-one crosses the wide part.

Don't quite follow - if you only get the extra 13 seconds if someone presses the button, if hardly anyone crosses there, surely the 13 seconds is rarely going to be added???

GarethPJ

It's taken about a minute to read this thread. What a waste of my time!

In all seriousness I get very bored listening to people bang on about delays. In what way is adding thirteen seconds to your journey any more than a very minor irritant?

chuckcork

As an able bodied man who doesn't muck around crossing at signal controlled ped x'ings, I can only say that the time you get crossing in most placxes is barely adequate as it is, let alone for an OAP with a bad hip/some other infirmity.

And so you get held up by 13 seconds, big deal. The person who is wanting to cross has probably waited rather longer than that themselves!

Stop being selfish and appreciate there are others out there.

nwallace

On a crossing where the Pedestrian lights are built into the cycle there is no Flashing Amber (for obvious reasons)

At a Pelican (pedestrian lights at far side) when the green light starts flashing it becomes a give way. This gives anyone who is still crossing time to get to the other side (ignore the fact that when it's red it's still effectivley a give way to peds)

At a Puffin, Pegasus or Toucan crossing (pedestrian lights on near side) the system is meant to sense when the pedesitrans (and cyclists at toucan, Horses at Pegasus) but usually don't and fail safe to always detecting people (thats what the red light udner the button is about) .

At a light control junction with pedestrian phase the only option to allow a pedestrian time to cross is to have a delay once the green man goes out. Someone will have timed it and adjusted it to find that 13 seconds is the appropriate timing. It doesn't matter if anyone is crossing or not, if it's gone to pedestrian phase (some kid could have pressed the button and run away, or it's one where it always does the pedestrian phase regardless) then your getting the delay because quite simply it doesn't know if anyone has started crossing or not.

GarethPJ

nwallace wrote:

On a crossing where the Pedestrian lights are built into the cycle there is no Flashing Amber (for obvious reasons)

At a Pelican (pedestrian lights at far side) when the green light starts flashing it becomes a give way. This gives anyone who is still crossing time to get to the other side (ignore the fact that when it's red it's still effectivley a give way to peds)

At a Puffin, Pegasus or Toucan crossing (pedestrian lights on near side) the system is meant to sense when the pedesitrans (and cyclists at toucan, Horses at Pegasus) but usually don't and fail safe to always detecting people (thats what the red light udner the button is about) .

At a light control junction with pedestrian phase the only option to allow a pedestrian time to cross is to have a delay once the green man goes out. Someone will have timed it and adjusted it to find that 13 seconds is the appropriate timing. It doesn't matter if anyone is crossing or not, if it's gone to pedestrian phase (some kid could have pressed the button and run away, or it's one where it always does the pedestrian phase regardless) then your getting the delay because quite simply it doesn't know if anyone has started crossing or not.

A very comlete and concise explantion.

I think the only remaining question for the OP would be: Why do you feel the LA should spend a significant chunk of council tax payers money upgrading the lights to save you thirteen seconds occasionally?

always_tyred

biondino wrote:

Annoying (in the same way that it's annoying waiting for a computer program to load, or time lag on a long distance phone call) but adding 7 or 8 seconds to your journey isn't going to make a lot of difference! And if it saves just one granny from being squashed, it's worth it.

Bloody grannies. Keep them off the road. You could get them using the Dangerous Grannies Act.