Feel Pumped! :D

The Northern Monkey

Just had a mahooosive session in the gym... worked everything upper body that I can and did a load of core work too.
Just wish I had my bike up and running so I can go work on my legs

I was doing flat and raised planks with sit ups and holding pressups... any other ways to work/strengthen my core?

B

Surf-Matt

Press ups with legs elevated on a swiss ball are good. So are twisting sit ups, any free weight chest exercise and loads of other stuff!

The Northern Monkey

Kewl, didn't think of twsts... could do with a swiss ball actually.

All I really remember was planks and holding pressup's from playing rugby...
5x 1min planks with 1min rest between killed me!

gonna be sore tomorrow, had muscle shake just lifting a fork to my mouth

ride_whenever

If you want a good core book, try the complete guide to core stability, very clearly written.

The Northern Monkey

ride_whenever
Take it you mean this one?
http://www.waterstones.com/waterstonesw ... ku=5595757

Will pop into waterstones tomorrow and have a browse

Surf-Matt

Surfing is also good for core strength

The Northern Monkey

lol i can't swim

btw, DOMS sucks

Surf-Matt

A mate of mine is a poor swimmer but decent surfer - not sure how though!

owen_MTB

Dont go at every body part in the same session

Chaz.Harding

bigbenj_08 wrote:

btw, DOMS sucks

+1 for that bad-boy... If your still sore a few days after, it's pretty likely that your NOT getting enough protein.

I never do any sit-ups, or dedicated core-work, but I tend to do alot of pull-ups, and heaves. It REALLY works, if you hang you legs straight, and absolutely do not cross them

8)

The Northern Monkey

Nah, I get DOMS the morning after the workout, but loosen up pretty quickly

When playing rugby, all I used to do was chins and dips. Really gave me alot of upper body strength and endurance. Just can't do that now, would love a chin/dip stand.

prawny

DOMS is ace WTF!

I love it you know you've been working when you can't move around the office like a regular human

The Northern Monkey

Haha, yea it is a good feeling of achievment

Especially when you struggle to lift your fork to your mouth

Jetlag

This ought to keep you going This workout is AWESOME


http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/a ... icleid=486

owen_MTB

How is DOMS good?
all it shows is that you've done something your body isnt used to, it doesnt mean you've worked harder. DOMS shouldnt be used as an indicator to your gym session

The Northern Monkey

Because its an indicator of light muscle tearing, which is needed for muscle to grow when weight training.

If DOMS is very painful or lasts longer than 2 days then there is a high chance you've damaged your muscles.

You dont always get it, however when training to increase mass it is pretty much unavoidable.... no pain no gain etc etc

Jetlag
I'll try that workout tomorrow... looks pretty comprehensive

owen_MTB

No its not, its an indicator that you've changed your workout exercises or intensitivity. No pain no gain is a lie. My back and biceps never ache, yet my deadlifts have gone up over 40kg in under 2 months. Eat more, sleep more, dont ache, sorted.

The Northern Monkey

my bench increased by 20kg in 2 weeks.... and i'm now benching more.

Depends how hard your training sessions are.

how does eating and sleeping relate to DOMS? I only ache the morning after... if your working out the idea is to "work out".

owen_MTB

Because the more sleep and food you get, the more chance your body has it recover. My training sessions are hard, but i dont rely on DOMS to see how im progressing, its how your lifts go up, all im saying is DOMS dont say how hard you've worked or whatever

The Northern Monkey

Delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS), also sometimes called muscle fever, is the pain or discomfort often felt 24 to 72 hours after exercising and subsides generally within 2 to 3 days. It is commonly thought to be caused by lactic acid buildup; however, lactic acid disperses fairly rapidly; it could not explain pain experienced days after exercise, and some concentric-only exercises produce lactic acid, but rarely result in DOMS.

Although the precise cause is still unknown, the type of muscle contraction seems to be a key factor in the development of DOMS.
A theory recently developed states that DOMS is caused by the breakdown of muscular fibres.
This is particularly apparent in Strength/Resistance programs. The breakdown occurs due to stress, and allows the muscles to grow stronger and larger, as shown through hypertrophy.
Exercises that involve many eccentric contractions, such as downhill running, will result in the most severe DOMS. This has been shown to be the result of more muscle cell damage than is seen with typical concentric contractions, in which a muscle successfully shortens during contraction against a load.
Some research claims that DOMS is not caused by the pain from damaged muscle cells, but from the reinforcement process. The muscle responds to training by reinforcing itself up to and above its previous strength by increasing the size of muscle fibers (muscle hypertrophy). This reinforcement process causes the cells to swell in their compartment and put pressure on nerves and arteries, producing pain.

Ahh thankyou.

The Northern Monkey

owen_MTB wrote:

Because the more sleep and food you get, the more chance your body has it recover. My training sessions are hard, but i dont rely on DOMS to see how im progressing, its how your lifts go up, all im saying is DOMS dont say how hard you've worked or whatever

You know that protein shakes are beneficial for after workouts? they provide the muscles with a high volume of the correct protein (natural whey) without having to eat more food.... so you can still have a balanced diet.
That means that muscles can repair themselves much quicker after a training session, and your max weight will increase quicker.

"eating more" won't necessarily help recover muscles, you'd have to be eating a very strict recovery diet... ie stacked with protein - especially after a proper work out.

owen_MTB

DOMS is just the physical perception of microtrauma to the structural components of muscular system, imbalances in enzyme levels and inflammatory response.

they don't indicate growth or a good workout or whatever.

Roughly they're a sign of damage/ waste products stuck in the muscle tissue that haven't been cleared properly.

DOMS don't get you bigger or stronger. If you want frequent DOMS just keep changing the exercise you do, new movements will always cause more DOMS than well rehersed ones.

The Northern Monkey

and your getting this info from where exactly?

did you read my post on page 1?

You do get DOMS from workouts your not used to yes...
but - You get DOMS by increasing your workout... ie the aim of a workout if your strength training..pushing yourself.

DOMS is just the physical perception of microtrauma to the structural components of muscular system, imbalances in enzyme levels and inflammatory response.

What the hell does that mean?!
DOMS is the sensation of microscopic muscle tearing and muscle hypertrophy action.

It is impossible to gain muscle without some sort of muscle tearing = DOMS.
The harder you train and the length of training depends on how much you feel the effect. If you overtrain then you get a full muscular tear.

obviously the lower the intensity or low duration will mean a smaller if any sensation of DOMS, but it will take longer to advance any strength.

Ditch Witch

I've been weight training for 23 years and I'd always thought DOMS was good (as was the thinking when I started back in the 80s!) but this thread has prompted me to do some reading.

It would appear that the no one agrees what causes it OR whether it's good or bad.

At worst it seems it's a setback but not at all necessary for muscle growth.

My weight training has always flown in the face of conventional wisdom for women and been of the 6x6 or 4x8 ilk with the heaviest weight I could lift and still complete all but the last set in good form. This has always meant (a) mild DOMS and (b) increased strength. Women don't bulk up like blokes so I can't say whether it would lead to bulk or not.

I made the mistake of having a PT for a bit and she mistook me for someone that didn't know their abillity and needed pushing. Consequently, I ended up crippled after each of the first 3 sessions I had with her. I never went back for the last 3. That kind of pain indicates an injury, no doubt about it. Who needs a PT that does that to you?

A little soreness, though? Is that such a bad thing? How do you know whether you could have done more?

I do know I overdid it this weekend. Out on the bike on Saturday then heavy duty gardening at my house AND digging over mate's new allotment on Sunday has left my hamstrings and adductors feeling like I climbed Mt Everest This kind of pain indicates injury, not improvement, BUT I know it won't hurt as much next time (because there will be a next time :roll: )


In short, no one knows for sure, so let's not come to blows over it, eh?

Surf-Matt

I used to feel I had failed my weights session if I didn't ache a bit afterwards.
Always went to MMF on the last set of everything.

Worked for me but I think everyone needs to tailor their own routine a bit.

Now just do maintenance stuff which puts a lot less stress on joints.

Ditch Witch

I think aching a BIT is OK, as, for me, anyway, I know I've worked out just enough. I get a certain smug satisfaction from that feeling, too.

Just not that crippled feeling (which I feel today, and yesterday) Seriously, I can barely put one foot in front of the other :oops: :roll:

Surf-Matt

Ditch - used to get that after the odd session but ALWAYS get it for a couple of days after a trail race (running)!!

The Northern Monkey

Well the majority of the stuff said above was regurgitated from my sports science classes at uni.

When playing rugby league for uni, we'd have a weight session on the monday (and they're big weight sessions with strength training pro's from Harlequins rugby league club just down the road). We never trained on the tuesday and only had light training on the wednesday because pretty much everyone suffered from DOMS.

As I said, the higher the intensity of the eccentric contractions, the higher the level of DOMS, but strength progress will be quicker.

Ditch Witch

I have to admit, after 2 decades of training, DOMS has never stopped me from building strength, but what I can't say is whether I would be even stronger if I'd trained a different way.


Not that bothered, to be honest, I'm not after any awards, and I get a kick out of being able to pick my b/f up and walk around with him (though I never do it in public. He'd hate that )

The Northern Monkey