Orange or Rock Lobster

fastcat

Yet another 'what mountain bike' thread.

I do alot of road riding, but have decided to get back into mountain biking after 20 years or so. Will be mainly XC / trails.

Thinking about steel mainly for ride quality reasons, though welcome views as to how much real world difference there is in this regard. (I'm not sure that on the road I've noticed significant differences between aluminium and steel frames, despite the "aluminium is harsh, steel is zingy" talk !)

Looking to spend about £1000. Have narrowed it down to two (or four if I add in aluminium alternatives):
-- Rock Lobster Tig Team 853 (or Tig team SL)
-- Orange P7S (or Evo 8)

Welcome any pros and cons of these. In particular for the Orange, I'm put off by the sliding rear drop-out design (risk of failure) and the spec appears lower for the price than the Lobster, hence am leaning in that direction at present

Thanks in advance !

Ken

supersonic

The differences in frames can be subtle - steel xc frames are generally more supple than alu, and alu frames generally stiffer than steel. But not always.

The P7 is designed to be run with a longer travel fork than the Rock Lobster.

I would try some out as that feel really can vary amongst steel frames!

Andy B

There is no risk of failure in the sliding drop out on the Orange.

There was an issue when one bike was assembled with the wrong sized bolts by a mechanic @ Orange, It's only happened once in numerous years of production so a very rare occurrence.

What about an OnOne 456?

Plenty of other steel framed bikes out there too if you do want a steel steed.

rhodrigwyn

Considered a Genesis altitude? i've got an altitude 20 (08) and it's great! just read the reviews on bike radar.
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... 0-09-34014
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... 0-09-34118

supersonic

To add to that, the Cotic Soul and Rocky Mountain Blizzard. Both beautifully made 853 frames.

Captain Turok

As Supersonic says, fork length is the question.

But I love my Lobster!, Merlin make great wheels also.. I am biased of coarse tho

dunker

or a charge duster high?

Northwind

It'd be really hard to build up a Soul or 456 (or Inbred) to this price without cutting into the spec I think... Soul in particular, not a cheap frame as my bank account is about to find out! The On One is a much cheaper frame but they don't really do builds, so you'd end up chasing around to get parts. Orange do come through with a bargain build.

(Hah, but I did have a thought along these lines the other day, if considering a completely from-scratch build- buy a carrera fury for £400, sell the frame, stick the rest on your frame of choice £400 gets you Tora 318s, decent wheels, reasonable finishing kit, X7/X5 drivetrain and Truvativ crankset )

The Spiderman

Or if you want a bargian build buy a Rock Lobster!Full SLX,Reba forks,hanbuilt wheels.......
The only thing that puts me off is that the top tube is a little n the short isde,but that ,might suit you.
I`m suprised no one has suggested you try the bargaintastic,credit crunch beating Boardman Pro.

fastcat

Thanks - choices, choices .... !

tlw1

I would go for the Orange - but would say that having bought one!

Get a demo, failing that get an Orange

rolf_f

fastcat wrote:

In particular for the Orange, I'm put off by the sliding rear drop-out design (risk of failure) and the spec appears lower for the price than the Lobster, hence am leaning in that direction at present

Ahhh, but think of the relative exclusivity of a bike made in the 100s rather than the 10,000s! Besides, Peace Hall and Dean Clough aside, Halifax is a bit of a miserable dump at the best of times so Orange deserve all the support they can get for making it a little bit less crap!

Captain Turok

The Spiderman wrote:

I`m suprised no one has suggested you try the bargaintastic,credit crunch beating Boardman Pro.

Nice spec, but how can you hand on heart recomend a bike (that costs the best part of a grand!) to someone else when theres a (not that unlikely) chance that its going to be assembled by a monkey!..

Northwind

Because the shop only does final assembly, which is trivial, and anyone who has half a clue can sort out any likely issues. But tbh even if you don't, the prices are good enough that you can pick the bike up and take it straight to an LBS for inspection, pay for any correction which might be needed, and still come away with a great buy.

Captain Turok

Shouldn't really have to add that as a proviso tho

It's a BICYCLE for the best part of a grand being sold by a retailer with a multimillion pound turnover, doesn't sound right to me however you spin it!..

I want Halfords to be good, my local one(s) are open on Sundays!, unlike my LBS :evil:

Northwind

Yeah, it's not a good state of affairs but it's perfectly liveable with, when you look at the advantages. Going to an LBS hardly guarantees good work either of course- a mate of mine works in a local shop and he reckons that they get more corrective work from a certain large co-operative than they do from Halfords.

Captain Turok

I hear what your saying re LBS's, and I agree Halfords has a place, maybe like an Evans style major retailer in the future (Halfords has the £ & outlets for it I reckon).

But personally I can only assume Halfords are as good as taking the pi$$, with its budget for "bike hut staff training" (although I'm ugly enough to know that theres more to it than that).
Hence I only buy bits on Sundays at the moment, good luck to them tho (as long as they stay open on Sundays )

supersonic

As ever, not all halfords are the same.

Boardman Pro by far and away the best specced bike at this price. If worried about the build, have it serviced for 20 quid at an LBS.

You need to learn the basics eventually anyhow.

fastcat

Thanks for the input everyone ....

The Boardman Pro certainly has a good spec, but I'm dubious about buying a bike from Halfords.

In any event, I guess I'd like something a little different hence thinking of Orange or Merlin.

Something "British" appeals, though given that practically all components on any of these bikes including the frame come from overseas it's a bit of a moot point as to what British means in this context.

The Orange P7S looks like a great bike, but I'm not sure it seems quite right for me. A bit heavy perhaps (accepting that steel will be heavier) and with more travel at 140mm than perhaps I really need for my riding.

Suggestions of Cotic and On-One are good ideas, but I really want a full bike not a frame I have to build up - much as I would enjoy it - and generally I've found in the road bike world that full bikes are overall better value for money.

The Genesis bikes do look good also.

But at the moment the Rock Lobster 853 is marginal favourite with 100mm travel being what i think I need, 853 steel with and looks great in red with the skinny slightly retro feel to the tubes ....

But, really need to go and test ride a few .....

Captain Turok

A red 853 lobster with handbuilt mavic 719's & 120mm reba teams sounds like fun to me!

plugp7

Orange P7. You won't look back after you ride it.
Then agian, I'm biased. Had mine for 4 years.

grantway

About to put a P7 together myself soon
To ride through the wet cutting paste mud on the bad days.